by 
A few things in the news lately. First up Condi is looking for help. It must make some Rethugs heads explode, or at the very least, catch fire to hear this.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Anxious not to repeat mistakes of past Middle East peace-making, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has turned to former presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter for tips ahead of her own conference this year.
Rice invited Carter, a vocal critic of Bush administration policies, to the State Department on Wednesday where the two discussed his Arab-Israeli peacemaking efforts in the 1970s, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said on Friday.
Their talks were “good and cordial,” he said. They focused on the Middle East and not Carter’s recent criticism of President George W. Bush’s policies in Iraq and elsewhere.
A Soviet specialist, Rice also telephoned another former Democratic president, Bill Clinton, who tried, and ultimately failed, in his eight years in office to bring the Israelis and Palestinians together.
That’s just GOTTA hurt.
Also Rummy’s on the run.
Rumsfeld flees France fearing arrest
Sat, 10/27/2007 – 08:45
Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of “ordering and authorizing” torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military’s detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush’s “war on terror” for six years.
How bad is it to be republican and see Rummy fucking fleeing France with his tail between his legs? I mean imagine the horror felt by a die-hard Rethug who is used to saying how the Dem’s are ‘cutting and running’ or calling the French ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys’ ? Thats just… well, hysterical to me.
Then instead of throwing a hissyfit like they did when Pelosi went to Syria not one thing is said about this.
Imagine there were a foreign politician who said:
• “We are all happy when U.S. soldiers are killed [in Iraq] week in and week out. The killing of U.S. soldiers in Iraq is legitimate and obligatory.”
• In October 2003, after rockets were fired at the hotel at which Paul Wolfowitz was staying in Baghdad, that “We hope that next time the rockets will be more accurate and effective in getting rid of this virus and his like, who wreak corruption in Arab lands.”
• That he felt “great joy” at the 2002 space shuttle Columbia disaster because one of the astronauts was Israeli.
<snip…>
Because while Lebanese politician Walid Jumblatt has said all these things, he’s only met with a Republican president, George W. Bush (last February). And he’s only met, on multiple occasions, with a Republican Vice President, Dick Cheney. (Cheney followed Jumblatt onstage just last week, which is when he took the opportunity to praise Jumblatt’s “courageous stand.”)
Oh my, the liberal media is going to have a field day with THAT, I tell you what. Oh… that’s right… liberal media my ass.
— bikepunk
by 
not to mention W has had so many AGs running through the office that getting another one barely makes the news now. . . like it’s a big surprise that the new guy would condone eavesdropping.
WOW. We HAVE gone to new lows…picking the biggest LOSER President in the short history of this country to give advice on MidEast relations…perhaps it is to glean firsthand knowledge of what NOT to do? Just look how prosperous our country was during his reign of ineptitude.
Then turning to Clinton for relations with Russia???? Seriously…Russia was a tiny blip on the political map when Clinton was in office…READ: NO POWER. He didn’t face up to countries that were threats at the time (CHINA)…so what advice could he give? Part of the reason we are in the international mess that we are currently experiencing is the complete and utter LACK of foreign policy this country had for 8 freakin years of Clintonian rule. You can’t ignore it and have it go away! Now look at China…they are and have been the 800 pound gorrila in the room.
This whole country needs a government-ectomy…or at least a big leadership-sized enema…Reps AND Dems included (there’s really no reason Pelosi shouldv’e used MY tax dollars to go ANYWHERE…just like MY money shouldn’t be used to save Rumsfeld’s ass right now…I thought he was out of office and therefore no longer OUR concern…).
All this with a touch of a hangover from cheap keg beer last night…I’m goin’ riding in the cold air, my head hurts.
Hey Sommers,
Maybe when your hangover clears your reading comprehension will return in its place. Rice is the Soviet expert, she’s asking Clinton about his experience in the Middle East.
And your Carter talking point? No matter how many times it’s repeated, it remains complete bullshit. Carter brokered the Camp David accords, the only lasting peace agreement involving Israel to date. You can type “loser” in all caps, but it doesn’t change the facts.
Yea.
Carter was a dingleberry for the most part but like a broken clock he got it right a couple of times.
Credit where due.
Still the only guy to get it right was a 27 star general named the big E, as in “Dwight the right”. The military industrial complex is and always will be our worst enemy and the reason for the majority of hate directed towards this peace loving country. (Thats you and me, right?) We need to keep it in our pants and make a living in our country. Foreign investments, foreign markets, foreign invasion need to be curtailed severely (get the boot off that guys neck). Doing things the hard way pays off. examples being- hand counting votes, paying cash, living modestly and honestly (who do you work for?), and parking your fucking car (live closer to where you need to be, if you have to move than do it.). thank you and goodnight.
Oh yeah. That’s right. Look how well the Camp David accords are holding up. Hardly any disagreement at all in that area of the world anymore. Hell, I think I’ll vacation there next spring. He’s still a LOSER in my book.
And Jerk, you’ve got something there. Fuck other countries, fuck giving them aid, we need to look out for ourselves a bit more. I do work for myself and I live close to my job.
we are in no place to help anyone and seem to do far more harm.
The Camp David Accords were between Egypt and Israel. Last time I checked, that relationship was continuing to function.
The Camp David Accords were between Egypt and Israel. Last time I checked, that relationship was continuing to function. Nice link to the Lebanese story.
There was also a provision for the recognition of a Palestinian state, hence the resultant Camp David meetings in 2000 with Clinton.
Must be a Fox News fanboy.
Rather be that than an adherent to the Clinton News Network! C’mon, I get my liberal balance right here!
Why is it that when confronted with real life situations, facts, etc, Bushies/Conservatives/Republicans always resort to ‘Clinton this’ or Clinton that’ instead of addressing the issues?
He’s been gone since 2000, but they can’t let that stop them.
Unless its about Kerry losing. Then its ‘Old news’ and ‘Get over it’ etc…
You can’t have it both ways.
Yeah, Bike Punk!
Not to mention that the Clintons are from the free trade repblican wing of the Democratic party. They are all for making life better for coporations and their millionaire masters.
What have the Reps done for you lately? Run up debt, fucked over the environment, moved jobs off shore, shreded the constitution and consolidated their grip on power by pandering to our fears rather than our hopes.
Dissing CNN as liberal! Give me a break! They are sooo middle of the road. If they were liberal, Lou Dobbs would not have a soap box there. You want liberal news go to Democracy Now.
WTF is Palestine?
Appeasement of batshit crazy fundies to create a theocratic nation does no one a favor. Fuck “Palestine”.
Damn dude, where were you when Isreal was created?????
And yeah…it’s easy to bring up Clinton stuff now simply because I haven’t forgotten how he screwed over this country. Now Bush is screwing over the country as well. I’m not necessarily a “Bushie,” I believe that if you’re gonna bitch about one side, I can bitch right back at you about your side. I enjoy hearing both sides of the story, that’s why I come here…usually you guys give some excellent points and state them with intelligence.
And sorelegs…you are right on man! But how has any Democrat made your life better lately? Congress has an 11 percent approval rating??!!
sommer,
What most forget to realize is that Israel is the only semi democratic nation in that area. There are muslims serving public office in Israel, there are atheists/agnostics serving office in Israel. As much as I hate a nation founded upon religion, Israel is the sole beacon of rationality in the entire shithole known as the Middle East. Apostasy & heresy in Iran is illegal and would most likely be in “palestine”, given the asinine comments made by the PLO. Israel tolerates free speech. Let’s see, who would you support?
Israel recognizes adoptions to both parents of same sex couples. Israel recognizes gay marriages (performed elsewhere). What shithole state in the US grants those rights to gays?
Understand that I fall under no delusion of the “palestine”/Israel conflict being one sided, but fuck, you eventually come to the realization that one side is doing much, much better in terms of basic human dignities & benavior than the other, and the absolute entire problem is religion.
You have modern civilized society on one side & backward ass fucks living in the 13th century on the other. It’s worse than a mongoloid cousin wearing diapers.
Your last line makes me smile!
And I agree with what your are saying completely.
I want to know why Westerners are so afraid of admitting that the underlying reason those people freakin’ HATE us isn’t because we want their oil…it’s because of RELIGION.
They are fighting a religious war…we aren’t. They are fairly well practiced in the art of Jihad (understatement of the millenium), we are not. They have zero tolerance for Western ways OR any religion other than Islam, we believe in tolerance towards all beliefs. They’ve got car bombs, we’ve got nuclear (nuculear if you are Pres. Bush!) weapons.
Getting back to the original topic…nothing Condi Rice does is gonna change thousands of years of ingrained (and sometimes rightous – think CRUSADES) hatred of Western nations.
It’s a clusterfuck…and it’s only gonna get worse so get used to it!
Just hope that the mongoloid-diaper-wearing cousin doesn’t strap some dynamite to his chest and go shopping at the local Toys-R-Us.
That is one of the big things for the fundies in the MidEast. Bush USED the word Crusade in describing his mission in Iraq; therefore they see it as another holy war. Some would argue Bush does as well.
I think he’s in it for the cash for him and his buddies.
And nothing some sellout black lady from Stanford is gonna change the fact that Muslims hate Jews, and Palestine is the red-headed stepchild of the Muslim world.
(If Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia… any of these wealthier nations actually gave a shit about their ‘muslim brothers’ like they howl about, why don’t they send some cash their way? Development projects? Running water and the like?
Oh yeah. They’re too busy doing this shit.
I love the discourse here thanks for chiming in everyone.
Sommer, to answer your question. Not that I think he is the be all to end all but Kucinich is making my life better by calling for the impeachment of Cheney. Do I expect it to get done? No. But he is one of the few Dems that is willing to stand up for principle. In my eyes Bush and Cheney should be impeached, they are certainly much much more deserving than Clinton was.
You are right! The democrats are not doing a hell of a lot to make my life better. They are too worried about their electablility and fundraising to take a firm stand on much. But at least they are addressing things like health care for everyone, getting the hell out of Iraq, and addressing global warming in a meaningful way.
To the general gist of this thread, and relating back to my point. The only reason we are so concerend about what happens in the middle east is because they have got the black drug that we need. We have got to make real headway to energy independence yesterday. The moment that the price of oil becomes insignificant to our economy is the moment we can blow that part of the world off. Until then we fuck it up at our own peril. So to me the only politician that has a meaningful middle east policy is the one that starts with a plan for energy independence in XX years and then addresses what we are doing over there in the meantime. I havent found that person yet but I seriously doubt he/she is goiing to have an R in front of their name.
In the mean time I am a hell of alot more afraid of my own government taking away my rights than I am of a “mongoloid-diaper-wearing cousin” wearing a suicide belt. Our nation has survived some pretty major conflicts and kept the constitution intact.
Regarding energy independence…Reps tried to drill in Anwar…couldn’t disturb the elk, though. California suffered through rolling blackouts because Dems blocked construction of additional infrastructure (i.e. powerplants). Our dependence on oil isn’t going away anytime soon. And I’m probably stepping WAAAAY out of bounds on this site by stating that if I want to burn as much gas as I can afford, it’s my freedom to do so. I bike to work not to save the earth or to save gas, I do it to stay in shape and because it feels good in the morning.
Lots of complaints, lots of finger pointing. Most of it rings TRUE. I just wonder what the solution will be? Can’t help but think no matter what we think or do, we’re just along for the ride.
“Can’t help but think no matter what we think or do, we’re just along for the ride.” I couldn’t agree with you more and I don’t see anyone wrestling back the drivers’ seat.
Re: ANWR. The name is Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. It tantamount to a national park. That is hallowed ground. It has already been set aside. Even if we did tap the oil reserves, have you done any homework on how much oil is there? Although it is only an estimate, the amount is not enough to satisfy our thirst for more than a year (i’ve heard as little as a two weeks). That is a very small drop in the energy independence bucket. The reason that Bushco wants to go there is not for energy independence. No mater what they say, they have already made their motivations clear through all of their actions to date. They are motivated by money. There are a bunch of fat ass oil execs that will get richer if we go there for oil.
The fact that you burn as much oil as you can afford to, the oil companies send their thanks for helping them be the most profitable business in the history of commerce.
Energy independence does not = petroleum based energy as a primary source. And you are right again our dependence isn’t going away anytime soon. So should we just keep going the way we are going or should we make an effort to change course?
Glad you ride your bike for whatever reason you choose. I drive to work everyday because 20 miles and 3,500 feet of climbing at the end of the day is a bit much for these sorelegs. If we ever meet on the road somewhere I’ll be happy to take a long pull.
Condi needs to get stuffed in the worst sort of way.
“It’s worse than a mongoloid cousin wearing diapers” Nice Blood Hound Gang reference thrown into a political conversation.
if you sell oil in dollars, it has value. if you sell oil in euros then then the dollar is paper. Iraq wanted to sell in euros, we “defended” the value of our money. Iran wants to sell oil in euros. they’re freedom is our demise, for having a free ride of exchange of paper for real goods. international banks are going to call in this debt and we will………….? bomb the fuck out of them!
money reform now, please.
and chopper, thank for the zeitgeistmovie link turned this bike mechanic into a international economics expert (yeah right) LOOK into it people. and i would like to hear back from folks. peace!