The hits just keep on coming

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USADA is handing out sanctions like breath mints.

Three of the six individuals recently charged by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in connection with what the agency alleges was a widespread conspiracy dating from 1998 through 2010 have received lifetime bans.

USADA handed down the sanctions Tuesday to Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Jose “Pepe” Martí for activities including possession of, trafficking of, and administration and/or attempted administration of “prohibited substances and/or methods including EPO, blood transfusions and related equipment, testosterone, hGH, corticosteroids, and masking agents,” and “assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.”

I’d say Ferrari was well past due. “‘I think he is one of the most knowledgeable and best trainers in cycling,’ [Giorgio] Squinzi says, ‘but I also think he is a person who operates without any moral restrictions whatsoever.'”,6802,s-3-12-13773-8,00.html.

The fates of Lance Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel, and Dr. Pedro Celaya are undecided at present.

“The other respondents in this case have either asked for and been granted a five-day extension to complete their response, or have requested to move forward with an arbitration hearing where all evidence will be presented, witness testimony will be given under oath, and an independent group of arbitrators will ultimately decide the outcome of the case…”

Is this a preview of what lies ahead? Perhaps. Mr. Armstrong has one hell of a fight ahead of him is he is to clear his name before USADA. There is talk that he will not even try. “Armstrong’s attorney said in the lawsuit that Armstrong is ‘certain to lose’ if he tries to fight the USADA charges by proceeding to an arbitration hearing.”

In other notable articles bouncing about these interwebs, Brian Alexander is asserting that the USADA has crossed the threshold to being a state actor, in an article which uses the word “victim” in the title (in case you were wondering what Mr. Alexander felt about all this).

[I]t’s not the what of this case that bothers me, it’s the how. Ends do not always justify means, and sometimes, in order to preserve higher values, you have to let guilty parties walk. In this instance, I’m less concerned about proving that Lance’s yellow jerseys are smudged than with the fact that USADA keeps mutating into what looks like a law-enforcement body, which it isn’t.

USADA, which participated in the federal investigation, isn’t part of the U.S. government and isn’t a judicial body. Newspaper stories tend to shorthand it as a “quasi-governmental” entity, but that’s not accurate. USADA is a private non-profit corporation hired to manage the anti-doping program for American athletes who hope to participate in the Olympics as well as various local, regional, national, and international competitions. And it’s gotten out of control.

Among other things, USADA runs the adjudication process when athletes fail a drug test, and it’s here where things become murky. Armstrong never failed a test that we know of, but relying on language written into the World Anti-Doping Code, the governing rules used by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and all national affiliates like USADA, the corporation is pursuing Armstrong on the basis of a so-called “non-analytical positive”—which means evidence, such as testimony and documents, that he doped. Using this material, USADA convinced a review board to formally charge Armstrong on June 30.

In a nutshell, the argument made by Mr. Alexander and countless others is that Mr. Armstrong’s due process rights granted to him under the United States Constitution have been violated. See generally, What is important in the present matter is that the other side of the lawsuit has to be the state, or a state actor, in order for any violation of the defendant due process rights to matter. The rule is basic: A private citizen cannot offend the due process rights of another citizen. You have to show a state actor first, before any due process violations are at issue.

Mr. Alexander claims, among other things, that if USADA is “going to behave like a law-enforcement agency, it should be held to the same standards as one.” So, is USADA a state actor? It would seem to me that they are not. It is a good question. I cannot believe that this is a matter of first impression. that is to say, I assume this issue has been presented previously by some party, at some time, in some case, in some court. But, I do not have any examples of such a case, or such cases, at my fingertips. And, honestly, what good would it serve if I linked to something available only to those with a Westlaw or Lexis account? This blog is better served, in my opinion, if I keep the citations and supporting references accessible to anyone. That is why, incidentally, I link to Wikipedia on occasion.

I can, however, provide direction to some light reading (/snark) for those interested in knocking themselves unconscious at this hour regarding the question of whether the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) or the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) are state actors. I have read these cases. I believe they represent current law, but they may not. They are provided as a background to the state actor argument Mr. Armstrong is presumably going to be making. The court discusses at length what is required to make a finding that a seemingly private entity is actually a state actor. The USOC was held not to be a state actor in DeFrantz v. US Olympic Committee. And, the NCAA was also found not to be a state actor in NCAA v. Tarkanian. I would think that USADA is pretty much analogous both, thus I conclude that USADA will most likely not be held to be a state actor in the instant case (way to pick a side, eh?).

Can Armstrong change that determination? And, perhaps more importantly, will he even try to? It seems as though Armstrong is attempting to paint the charges against him as unfair and impossible for him to defend, thereby creating the impression that he is simply a victim and not the guilty party those USASA bastards claim him to be (the use of “bastard” is my own). It’s going to be an interesting game. So far, it seems Armstrong has played the Court of Public Opinion with this usual mastery of the instrument. As Edward Pickering wrote, “Lance Armstrong’s worst nightmare is irrelevance.” I cannot believe that Mr. Armstrong will ever be irrelevant, but that probably won’t stop him from fighting the fight. I don’t think he knows any other way forward than through conflict.

The closer a man stands to the trees, the harder it is for him to see the forest. Fat Cyclist provides an example of this concept in action, “It is impossible for people like you and me to have a productive, enlightening conversation about whether Lance doped.”

Which is too bad, really. “[I]f you hear some uninformed person say the government should stop going after suspect athletes, tell them to check their hero-worship at the door. In America, everyone suspected of a crime is supposed to be investigated equally.” (an aptly titled article if ever there was one).

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

70 Replies to “The hits just keep on coming”

  1. I think I read somewhere (cyclingnews forum?) Celaya is going to arbitration. if so, I think that means it all comes out in the open no matter which course of action armstrong takes. The evidence getting out, is likely the biggest fear of LA. he can always keep swindling the fanboys if he gets stripped of TDF titles behind closed doors, but if the testimonies get into the papers, then irrelevance “should” be just around the corner.

  2. For me its more a case of all the bad actors out there why choose to chase a nearly decade old out of competition one? Since they receive federal funding to exist I find that an offensive use of my tax dollars. Get a relevant bad guy or all you are is a witch hunter.

  3. Fucked and fucked, the whole thing is retarded. The money wasted that is.. Cycling is a doping sport. With no dope, there’s no fans. Simple. Doping is good for the sport of cycling. I’m fine with it.

  4. sorry jerry this ain’t velonews. should Corzine be continued to be left alone since the money is already gone? should cops not bother apprehending mobsters since there are still loads of them out there? did you complain when they got Zirbel on a contaminated supplement? no need to respond of course. just rub your yellow bracelet and all will be better.

    and this is not a decade old, suspicious blood profile is from the the comeback period and the rest of the cast is currently active in the sport. As if this needs to be said.

  5. I partially retract my statement. I absolutely think that athletes should be investigated of wrongdoing (aka lying to feds), and they should be held accountable as “normal” people are when they fuck up.

    As with all things in life, you make a decision to do something. As a model doesn’t pose nude not wanting people to see her body, a cyclist doesn’t dedicate his life to making the pro tour not anticipating to dope.

    Maybe I’m wrong…

  6. I wonder what the odds are that at this *very* moment LA is screaming orders and threats into a phone or a face while a battalion of handlers, lawyers, communication directors and misc. henchmen stand around heads bowed in awkward fearful silence awaiting their inevitable turn..

  7. Again, a bunch of Johnny come lately cycling fans that got their cherry popped by LA spouting about a witch and how it should be ended…pathetic.

    Perhaps you can help Lance start a Fairness Fund…Oh wait, fairness would be if he is treated like all the other punished for what they did.

  8. Would a competitor as hardcore and determined as LA leave 2% (or 20%, or whatever) advantage on the table? Don’t think so.

    BUT why can the USADA convict someone based solely on hearsay?

    AND… If LA has passed 100 drug tests and officially failed none… does that mean that the USADA is trying to prove that their testing is irrelevant?

  9. no test has came back positive for a banned substance….EVER

    without REAL evidence and only testimony from dirty/banned riders or opinions from scientists who could not find said evidence in their own tests it is all “a he said she said” argument and that to me is not enough to ban for life or strip titles won.

    What was wrong with all these tests up to and beyond 2010 that we have to doubt them?

  10. ya AZCutter. we all know (assume) LA doped, but he got away w it. Can we move on to the present?

    Killer write up btw bigjonny.

  11. Yes we can move on to the present, which happens to include the USADA process that LA is going to be put through.

  12. Regarding Jimbo’s comment, supra, I hear the word “hearsay” get knocked about quite a bit.

    This is the legal definition:

    “A statement made out of court that is offered in court as evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.”; see also

    To be clear, I do not know what the exact specifications of the hearsay rules USADA operates under. I do not believe they follow the Federal Rule of Evidence, or the rules of any one state jurisdiction. Rather USADA follows something put forth by the American Arbitration Association. (I may be wrong on that, please correct me if necessary.) There are many exceptions to the hearsay rule (seriously, it’s a long list). I assume that no matter the rules employed, they are sufficiently analogous that this analysis is in the ballpark. Basically, if the person testifying does so in court, under oath, it isn’t hearsay. If the witness instead describes the speech, conduct, or communications of a third person (not present, not under oath), it is hearsay.

    From what I understand, USADA evaluated whether to pursue doping charges/claims against Lance Armstrong based upon witness testimony given under oath to USADA. And, I believe that those witnesses will testify at the arbitration hearing, if it comes to that.

    “With respect to Lance Armstrong, numberous riders, team personnel and others will testify based on personal knowledge acquired either through observing Armstrong dope or throught Armstrong’s admissions of doping to them that Lance Armstong used EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone and cortisone during the period from before 1998 through 2005, and that he had previously used EPO, testosterone and hGH through 1996.” (emphasis added).

    Thus, the testimony given which led to the charges being made is not hearsay because the witnesses provided testimony before USADA. And, the testimony to come at the arbitration hearing (if it occurs) will not be hearsay because the witnesses will provide testimony themselves before USADA.

  13. Jonny,

    Nice post. I think it should be noted that Fatty’s post that you site posted prior to all of this s#$% hitting the fan, right? If so, it would be interesting to see what he thinks now.

  14. It will be very interesting to see what Fatty (Elden) thinks now. And, it will be interesting to see what he writes. I cannot imagine it will be an easy path for him to take.

    And that guy has walked some hard miles already.

  15. Jonny

    Love your slap in the face with legal reality you are giving to some of these ‘non-believers’…or ‘believers’, based on how you look at it

    As far as no failed tests- I will go to my grave believing the ‘hearsay’ that he failed an EPO test in 2001 Tour de Suisse.

    Also, despite it not being an ‘official test’, let us not forget the saved samples from the 1999 Tour that were later tested in 2004 with an updated assay for EPO and LA’s sample number tested positive for EPO

  16. For craps sake, it is like nobody on here believes in bribes, conspiracy, collusion and corruption.

    In my mind, there are only 2 possibilities, first, LA is innocent…which leads me to the only real possibility, LA’s cheating was sanctioned and enabled by the powers that be. No, I don’t need to prove it, so don’t bother.

  17. There are more doping stories going on now than just Lance and De Gregorio.

    Shane Stokes is a great guy and is not afraid to ask the tough questions. Great website:

    The suspicions started back in the spring mainly b/c Wiggins is starting to sound a lot like Lance did during his Tour runs. After watching the Dauphine, hearing of climbing training camp at Tenerife, questionable 2009 blood values, and now association with former Rabobank team doctor who was engaged in team doping from 1996-2007, the story sounds eerily similar.

    The past has shown that usually where there is smoke there is fire. This is not a “vendetta” or “baseless” “witch hunt” as Lance would say on Wiggins. I could spend time on Cadel or Pippo as both still work with Ferrari. But Wiggins attitude scares me, as it seems to be a regression in light of the info below.

    Love him or hate him this is about cleaning the sport up for good, finishing what Floyd started.

    Gert Leinders-

    Geert Leinders was a team doc at Rabobank where doping was condoned under medical supervision until 2007.

    He is mentioned by Theo de Rooy former Rabobank DS quite a bit when describing “training”. Same thing you hear from Dave Brailsford of Team Sky.

    “According to the Volkskrant, Theo de Rooy who was team manager from 2003 to 2007, did not deny that there was doping on the team. “If it happened, it was a deliberate decision by the medical staff,” he said, but claimed not to know of the HumanPlasma involvement.”

    Guess who was the main Dr during those years?? You guessed it, Leinders.

    When the Rasmussen scandal exploded, the team restructured and Geert said he was no longer happy under new management. Sky intitially had a zero tolerance PED policy, but after getting their asses handed to them in 2010 after signing Wiggins the rules relaxed. Citing the need for “experienced staff” after Geert’s arrival results improved dramatically. As a “specialist” his experience in “coaching” helped doped riders pass dope tests. He is a “specialist” in blood plasma.

    Ask yourself this question: Why do you need a specialist in blood plasma on the team when needle use is not allowed??

    Not b/c he makes really good rice cakes.

    Prior to sky he never had quite the horsepower to work with or financial backing. Part of his appeal is he’s more of team guy, not a freelance consultant for hire like Ferrari et. al. He encourages isolated places for “altitude training” like Ferrari which does 2 things; introduce extra margin into biopass results and the difficulty in getting samples to labs in the required time means less testing. Tenerife is used for this purpose. About as remote and high as can be. Same reason Lance, Levi, Basso, etc. etc. train there.

    On to the “covering up”. The questions started being raised after the Dauphine.

    Richard Moore and the propaganda machine.

    This was all taken from a blogspot web address i will provide later.

    “First of I am no blogger writer and I don’t intend to respond to all questions, I am just saying keep an open mind about everything you see and experience. Don’t just swallow the media.

    So here I start…

    I have never written a blog but I finally felt compelled to start one as according to Richard Moore I had accused Team Sky of doping.

    Let me start with this. I haven’t done that. I have just pointed out the obvious.

    But lets first start speaking about Richard Moore, a former professional cyclist who was chucked out of a race for cheating in 1996. He now works for Sky, the Murdoch corporation which acts as a highly moral and ethical parent company to the Team Sky Cycling Team.

    What I am questioning is the validity and integrity of his articles regarding Team Sky. What he did, after utter dominance from Team Sky at the Dauphine is the following:

    •Richard Moore noticed the eye-brow raising performance
    •Richard Moore asked his mates at Team Sky, what are you going to do about it?
    •Team Sky responded to him, by taking a machine or some data to the ASO and speaking about Wiggins and their riders and why they are clean.
    It probably went a bit like this

    (shamelessly stolen from iainf72 from the forums)

    As I was saying you can’t make this stuff up. He does get paid to write THAT SHIT.

    Richard Moore as an acting professional should have may be asked about the following information about Team Sky and others…

    •Michael Rogers past relationships with doping charges whilst at T-Mobile. Cleared by the “squeaky clean UCI which now is in a spot of trouble or two regarding the new Armstrong storm.

    •Some doctors at Team Sky have got a doping past, yes really, they do. Their main doctor at this years Dauphine isGeert Leinders. Search and you will find.

    • More generic but not really related to Team Sky are around the effectiveness of the Biological passport.

    Eur J Appl Physiol. 2011 Sep;111(9):2307-14. Epub 2011 Feb 20.
    Current markers of the Athlete Blood Passport do not flag microdose EPO doping.
    Ashenden M, Gough CE, Garnham A, Gore CJ, Sharpe K.

    The Athlete Blood Passport is the most recent tool adopted by anti-doping authorities to detect athletes using performance-enhancing drugs such as recombinant human erythropoietin (rhEPO). This strategy relies on detecting abnormal variations in haematological variables caused by doping, against a background of biological and analytical variability. Ten subjects were given twice weekly intravenous injections of rhEPO for up to 12 weeks. Full blood counts were measured using a Sysmex XE-2100 automated haematology analyser, and total haemoglobin mass via a carbon monoxide rebreathing test. The sensitivity of the passport to flag abnormal deviations in blood values was evaluated using dedicated Athlete Blood Passport software. Our treatment regimen elicited a 10% increase in total haemoglobin mass equivalent to approximately two bags of reinfused blood. The passport software did not flag any subjects as being suspicious of doping whilst they were receiving rhEPO. We conclude that it is possible for athletes to use rhEPO without eliciting abnormal changes in the blood variables currently monitored by the Athlete Blood Passport.

    That biological passport, which monitors blood values and urine samples over time in order to build evidence of blood manipulation and is financed in large part by the sport’s elite tier of teams, was put into place to supplement traditional drug testing.

    Yet according to Landis, teams and riders with enough monetary resources and sophisticated medical advice knew how to circumvent the biological passport even before its official implementation in 2007.

    Landis told last week that during the two or three years leading up to his 2006 Tour de France victory — subsequently nullified after he tested positive for synthetic testosterone — he and some of his fellow riders combined strategically timed transfusions and microdoses of EPO (erythropoietin, a red blood cell booster) in order to keep their blood values constant rather than spiking and dipping.

    The main difference between their methodology and that of riders in the 1990s, Landis said, was riders of his era learned to inject EPO intravenously rather than subcutaneously, as a cancer patient or someone with another grave illness would do.

    When EPO is injected under the skin, it is absorbed first into soft tissue and released into the bloodstream gradually, prolonging its therapeutic effects. Injecting EPO intravenously has the same effect of boosting red blood cell count and improving oxygen processing capacity. However, the drug disperses more quickly in the bloodstream and thus becomes undetectable sooner — especially if riders dilute their blood with an intravenous drip of saline solution or simply by drinking a lot of water after injecting it.

    I am going to leave it now as my lunchtime is finally coming to an end. But next time you see EBH dropping Nibali and whistling on his way up the Grand Colombiere, raise an eye brow.

    I apologise for any grammar or spelling issues. Excuses are, lack of time and not a native.”

    Here is an exchange on how it has been buried by those “vehemently against doping” . I love JV, like the direction he is taking things but find it ironic that he has Dekker on his team who was trained by Geert, but does not know about Geert or who he is.

    Holden Flabcock ?@HoldenFlabcock
    @Vaughters @digger_forum JV you fire Matt White for a Dr. Association incident. Yet @bradwiggins still has Geert Leinders as team doc. ??
    Vaughters ?@Vaughters
    @HoldenFlabcock @digger_forum @bradwiggins No idea who Geert is. Sorry. Anyhow, you guys win. Good night.

    We still have a LOOONG way to go to clean it up. It makes the way Wiggo acts as a TOUR LEADER just as shady as Pharmstrong.

  18. …keeping in mind that any recipient of a belated ‘tour win’ would or at least should be equally as suspect, i’d love to see the usada offer armstrong the perfect moral quandary…

    “…make a full admission that you been lying for years about your drug usage & that you’ve constantly directed intimidating tactics at your accusers by manipulating the press & use of your overzealous legal team, in order to preserve your legacy & you’ll be allowed to retain your 7 tour wins, albeit with an asterisk…”

    …the whole era was/is tainted so give him the chance to ‘man up’, have a serious little chat with his livestrong minions & fans & go forward from there…

  19. …it passed by with little acclaim but kudos to united states district judge sam sparks (in austin, tx) who slapped the cancer jesus team across the mouth for grandstanding & basically told them to “…keep it real or sit down & shut up…”

    …in the judges summation of team legal-lance’s 80 page request for a dismissal of usada charges, he stated “This Court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong’s desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement, or vilification of Defendants”…

    …Contrary to Armstrong’s apparent belief, pleadings filed in the United States District Courts are not press releases, internet blogs, or pieces of investigative journalism. All parties, and their lawyers, are expected to comply with the rules of this Court, and face potential sanctions if they do not.”…

    …Armstrong is advised, in the strongest possible terms, and on pain of Rule 11 sanctions, to omit any improper argument, rhetoric, or irrelevant material from his future pleadings.”

    …so, ya, the cancer jesus team were savvy enough to quickly comply & have since pared it down to 25 (from 80) pages & have refiled but it’s good to see not everybody is swayed by their bullshit…

  20. Totally ridiculous, void of any fact, absurd:

    “…keeping in mind that any recipient of a belated ‘tour win’ would or at least should be equally as suspect, i’d love to see the usada offer armstrong the perfect moral quandary…

    …“…make a full admission that you been lying for years about your drug usage & that you’ve constantly directed intimidating tactics at your accusers by manipulating the press & use of your overzealous legal team, in order to preserve your legacy & you’ll be allowed to retain your 7 tour wins, albeit with an asterisk…”…”

    Seriously, just the rantings of an LA lover who can’t get over it.

  21. …know what i like about you, guest ???…

    …if i said your mother was the coolest chick on the planet, in order to be contrary, you’d tell me she was a stupid cunt…

    …as are you…

  22. Seriously, if they can prove half the allegations they made, it will make LA and his ‘people’ probably the biggest group involve in PED’s in cycling period. The idea that the most criminal, most corrupt be allowed to keep it all with an asterisk is retarded.

  23. bgw, I’m over jumping on you. I had a thing for it for a while because I sensed you got your kicks by doing it to me and others. Have fun with it, now I’m just talking on the subject.

  24. I’m with D2.

    Holy fuck.

    Holden Flabcock for the win.

    Sweet Heyzeus. Even Littlejar his self couldn’t have pulled that off.

    Imaginary pothole or not.

  25. …to surmise…the game hasn’t changed, it just gets more sophisticated…& expensive…

    …it would be nice to believe we have clean riders coming up…it would be nice to think we have clean riders in the ranks already but to go back to virgil mutha fuckin rufus’s comment – “…my joy has been poisoned…” is, i think, kinda descriptive of how ‘most’ of us feel…

    …does anyone think there will ever be a time when the dopers aren’t 3 steps ahead of the dope testers ???…kinda sad but the realistic testers don’t seem to think so…

    …any time a ‘surefire’ detection method is disclosed, not long thereafter comes a way, method, drug or a variation thereof to circumvent the effort…

    …it ain’t ‘illegal’ until they discover it & make it illegal…

    …& whether everyone wants to use it or not, the next step is always on the limited horizon…

  26. “…the hits just keep on coming…”, part deux…

    …that little spanish bitch, contador will be able to resume racing in 27 fucking days…

    …how does a 2 year ban which started on feb 6th, 2012 get ‘backdated’ to the point where he’s allowed back in only 7 months later ???…

    …he had a couple a’ wins erased but he also did a lotta racing whist in arbitration…

    …arhhh !!!…

  27. Marc McCann – Sports Law Professor @ VLC offers this great analysis:

    I tend to think that if Congress creates an agency to enforce policy, it is, in effect, a state actor. Especially if it draws on taxpayer money.

    USADA was created by Congress, and is partly funded with Congressional appropriations. It apparently received privileged status with the Feds in their failed attempt to indict, and they have stated that the Feds have shared their files, testimonies, etc.

    Seems like a pretty powerful argument that USADA is, indeed, a state actor.

    I’m a big believer in due process. USADA is a joke on many fronts. Tygart’s comments are totally unprofessional. Armstrong may be smug and not a nice guy, but he (and all athletes) deserve better than a tilted panel of hostile USADA administrators adjudicating a a career based on questionable allegations.

    Armstrong should prevail in this. Even if he doesn’t, I admire him for tackling an unaccountable administrative body that can’t seem to get their straight.

    And, by the way, today’s cyclists are just another step ahead of the test. They always will be. Cheating is your cover charge into the world of elite professional sports. Always will be. That’s what makes it so thrilling. Duh.

  28. Hey Johnny, might be a good time to add ibelieve to your i belive tyler .com collection of web addresses!

  29. @big jonny, I see you grabbed as well. I registered it when his sh*t fist hit the fan but let it expire after his crew pinged me about the domain. :) You just need one landing page with a syringe for all the url’s to redirect to…

  30. #33, just another attack aimed at everything but the truth about LA, pathetic.

  31. Great post @W #33. it seems you have learned well from your online Livestrong spin training course.

    “Unprofessional, tilted, hostile, questionable allegations”…it seems you have covered the bases. now onto the next blog for you!

  32. You guys are mean. Lance rules! I never would have been aware of cancer if it weren’t for him. (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

  33. …well, cadel is now sitting in the ‘catbox’ seat….scratching around in the dirt & the shit as today proved to be his great undoing…

    …c’est la vie pour la petite aussie, he’s already got his tour win…

    …the drama now revolves around whether sky can corral chris froome enough so that wiggo can get HIS tour win…

    …froome looks like he could leave wiggo by the side of the road if they gave him free rein…

  34. Agreed bgw…

    Froome could win this tour without Wiggins help, however im not sure the opposite is true.

  35. I know it’s crazy but I really want to see in my lifetime a cheese eating surrender monkey win the tour. “cheese eating surrender monkey” is a frenchman according to my grandfather, R.I.P. who fought in WWII. I just love the way it rolls off the tongue.

  36. I know the Badge won in ’85 but I didn’t watch it. I want to watch something like that live. I would also like to see a Colnago win the tour. Not a Merckx built by Ernesto but a real badged Colnago!

  37. …buz…i think froome in the mountains on his own could negate wiggos better time trialing…just wonder how clean they are…fucking wanker cunts…

    …virgil mutha fuckin rufus…that would actually be awesome…they deserve a tour winner as a national hero…stage wins, yep, they get those every year but as for a real live tour winner, ya, it goes back to the days of the badger & the now sadly departed professor…

  38. So away from this negative shit. Who is your favorite rider of the tour of all time? Besides Eddy. Name one other person who you loved watching? I like watching the tapes of Coppi and Zabel. I’m not sure if he ever raced the Tour, but Tafi is freaking silk on a bike, so much fun to watch those old Paris-Roubaix videos with him charging on the front.

  39. …ummm, tommy simpson…“…at least he died doing what he loved…”

    …sorry, bad joke but, well, i just had to…

  40. I want Froome to throttle Wiggo hard. That was great yesterday when he let er rip for a minute but got called back by management, that’s really gotta suck for Froome.

  41. Both Froome and Van Garderen were having far better days than their captains, and would have placed higher on the stage if they had been a little less loyal.

  42. takes a team to hold & win the Yellow….

    let’s say LA is guilty of doping just as the same as everyone else at that time….Who do you give it to? This happened years ago and nothing will change with guilty verdict/plea except more negative focus on the sport.

    “let’s say LA is guilty of doping just as the same as everyone else at that time”

    LA pooped your cherry and you still love him, that can really be the only explanation to continue with this line of reasoning…Get over it.

  44. @AZcutter, suspicious blood profile from 2008-2012. Witness testimonies (NOT hearsay) likely confirming this ain’t nothing new and it goes back a while.

    you need a new hook to hang your “denial” hat on. and the line of reasoning that he should keep the titles since you assume everyone else was juiced, is hubris at best. Ullrich just got dinged, Pantani booted out of his country’s home tour, Contador eventually got (mildly) sanctioned. lots of big boys did.

    why does Armstrong deserve a free pass?


    Johan and LA are taking different paths.

    The blood profile are not about hematocrit. Lance fucked up and his Hubris got the best of him. If you look at his blood profiles he got his hand stuck in the cookie jar after the Giro/ Tour double. His profiles were normal after the Giro. Then they spike before, during, and on key stages in the Tour. Not humanly possible with out manipulation. He will say it was due to altitude training but he will be fucked when the align the spikes with the key Tour stages. The eyewitness testimony albeit also key in my opinion will just be gravy.

    the argument of “leave him alone” because everyone else was doing it is fucked b/c that is not USADA’s fault or problem. It is the problem of the UCI, ASO and the dopers. Cry me a fucking river.

    At the end of this, the UCI will make the Mafia look like Knights of Columbus

    If you guys want to get your learn on from someone that knows his shit, go here:

  46. “…we ride through the cold, through heatwaves, in the rain and in the mountains…we have the right to treat ourselves as we wish…Leave me in peace; everybody takes dope…” – jacques anquetil…

    …before you kids get all wound up on who ‘popped’ whose cherry, let’s take a step back in time…while the culture of doping & denial is synonymous from the earliest days, the colorful ‘monsieur chrono’ pulled no punches when it came to addressing what got him through the miserable parts of bike racing during the ’50’s & ’60’s…

    …just sayin’…

  47. HF,

    “At the end of this, the UCI will make the Mafia look like Knights of Columbus”


  48. Please describe doping in the 50′ and 60’s. Other than calling it doping it won’t be anything like the last 15 years.

  49. …i’m simply pointing out that cheating, by one form of doping or another, has been a part of the sport since the beginning…(no, i don’t condone it, i’m simply addressing the fact)…

    …& it doesn’t take a ‘rocket surgeon’ to realize that the practice is much more sophisticated in this day & age but it does take a skilled pharmacologist or endocrinologist to keep pushing the envelop of what can or can not be discovered considering the testing procedures…

    …it is a practice that will continue to evolve because the money is in the results, not in discovering of how people cheat…the dopers are, have & will always be 3 steps ahead of the testers…it stands to reason – it’s the money, not the morals…

    …fortunately people do fuck up, despite their best efforts & do get caught but the culture remains…

    …& before the advent in cycling of the ‘epo’ type of drugs, the use of ‘pot belge’, a hodgepodge mixture of cocaine, heroin, caffeine, amphetamines, and other analgesics was a common practice…

    …now that, is some crazy shit to ride a bike on, ya ???…

  50. Sometimes when we spoon, I like to pretend that Peter Sagan is my little jet pack…..

  51. @HUMPTY— those 140 MPH serves don’t hit themselves… hundreds of times per match… a match which can last 3-4 hours… If baseball players dope, then ANY athlete can dope.

  52. I’m a little late to this post, getting behind on TdF and massive spoiler avoidance. Must say, great post. Love tying in the shark-jumping Fat Cyclist. Elden’s a nice enough guy – I’ve met him. But he doesn’t realize how Livestrong is now using him. When that referenced post went up over there, Fatty edited and deleted comments like crazy. That’s his call, but does got to motive. I was pissed my comment got deleted, so I’ll post it here. I’m glad Lance’s comeback hubris and greed will be the final coffin nail. Sleeping dogs, and such. Glad too, because that means Lance was doped for Leadville ’09 and that gives Dave yet another ore cart trophy.

  53. …@ ‘whatever’…nice call as regards mr wiens, one of the most honest & genuine guys ever to race a bicycle…big dave is the antithesis of cancer jesus…

    …guys like dave wiens & ned overend OWN colorado…armstrong just has a piece of property there…