Ugly

The only word I can think of that describes this situation is “ugly”.

First off, you’ve got gun & ammo sales on the rise.

Concern that the Obama administration could impose a new ban on some semiautomatic weapons is driving worried gun owners to stockpile ammunition and cartridge reloading components at such a rate that manufacturers can’t meet demand.
Source: www.washingtonpost.com

Yeah, that feels good. Gun shop owners attribute this to Barak Obama becoming President. A black, liberal, alleged Muslim, friend of “terrorists”, socialist become president and what do you do? Stock up on guns and ammunition, of course.

“It started the day that Obama got elected,” Johnny Dury, who owns Dury’s Gun Shop in San Antonio, tells NPR’s Michele Norris. “It is when everything just went crazy in the gun business.”

Dury says people are buying guns as well as ammunition, creating a shortage of both. He says people are buying the guns to protect themselves because they perceive Obama’s policies as socialist and rewarding those “people who are not working hard.” They are also afraid, he says, of more restrictive gun laws.
www.npr.org

Secondly, you’ve got the likes of Rush Limbaugh (whom I won’t even bother to quote because we all know what he’s been saying), and Sean Hannity bringing complete falsehoods such as this to the table:

I think these jokers are dancing on a slippery slope.

…there is an additional element that was merely amusing a few weeks ago but has, in my view, become worrisome if not downright alarming: The apocalyptic and very public comments of prominent Republicans such as Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, tough guy actor Chuck Norris and Fox News pontificator Glenn Beck whose delusional brand of patriotism leads them to proclaim that a second American Revolution may be necessary and it will not be nonviolent.

These are not merely the comments of “sore losers,” which is a frequent refrain from right-of-center commentators who are unwilling to acknowledge that there can be a connection between incendiary talk and incendiary actions.
Source: themoderatevoice.com

The evil they doth sow…

Anyway, this ought to cheer you up – Lisa Ann as Sarah Palin. Something we can all believe it.

Lisa Ann as Sarah Palin.  God Bless America.

Lisa Ann as Sarah Palin. God Bless America.

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

104 thoughts on “Ugly

  1. someone tell me how exactly limiting some guns that shoot a thousand rounds per minute is taking away my right to hold arms

  2. Guess the Second Amendment don’t mean shit around here. And that ain’t the way you treat the flag.

  3. “…a thousand rounds a minute…” WTF? I only need one, correctly placed.
    And yeah, Barry Hussein will start a major gun grab if he’s not impeached first. Mark my words.

  4. you would have a point davey but one rounders are not in question here

    I fail to see how this is antiamerican

  5. “They are also afraid, he says, of more restrictive gun laws.”

    Sums it up one sentence.

    Look, this isn’t difficult. Handguns are machines specifically designed for a single purpose: violent human death.

    Yeesh.

  6. With regard to the ‘right to bear arms’ in your constitution, that very document makes the most important weapon you can legally possess the pen you mark your ballot paper with, and ‘America’ spoke in electing Obama. The sooner you confine these right wing, bible-twisting,evolution-denying, f**kwits to the dustbin of history the better. Nowehere’s perfect (least of all, sunny Scotland, indeed far from it and as a race we’ve still a fair way to go before we get it close to right), but I’m off to enjoy my son safe in the knowledge he’s going to go to a school unlikely to experience anything like the horror of Columbine. Obama marks an absolute sea-change in the way the US is viewed overseas as a whole, for the better. Of course it would be way cooler if we saw him ride a bike……..Sartre said it best, ‘Socialism is the one political doctrine we cannot move past.’ And he knew a thing or two…..

  7. Dave, I wish you and all of your batshit insane right-tard buddies would rise up and start a revolution, if only to see you all shot down like the traitorious ignorant assholes that you are. All of you small dicked over-compensating gun nuts go so completely insane every time gun control is even thought about, much less mentioned, and then shit happens like the 8 year old girl in St. Petersburg who was gunned down in her bedroom by two assholes with AR15′s who pumped over 50 bullets into the home, and you stand there with straight faces and say “guns don’t kill people, people kill…” you know what? Shut the fuck up Dave. There is no fucking need whatsoever for anyone without a badge or a military ID to have an assault rifle. None. Other than it makes your tiny pecker stiffen without the aid of that little blue pill so you can climb on top of your fat assed wife.

    You assholes had playtime from 2000-2008 and you destroyed the economy, ransacked the treasury, and killed a bunch of Iraqi’s just because they were, well, Iraqi’s. YOU LOST THE ELECTION. As soon as President Big Scary Black Man Obama does something that’s actually illegal, you can talk about impeaching him. So far, he’s pretty clean. Which is a hell of a lot more than you can say about your homeboys Bush, Cheney, and Rove, who are likely to be arrested for war crimes if they ever leave the United Stated. You fucking assholes aren’t patriots, you don’t love your country, and you don’t care about anyone or anything other than yourselves and your paranoid little Hollywood Red Dawn fantasy masturbation sessions.

    So yeah, I’m saying, if it’s so bad here in these United States, if the governement is really fucking you over that hard, please invade the local county courthouse with your buddies and see how well that turns out for you. Or are you just a coward who talks the talk, but can’t walk the walk?

  8. Lisa Ann gets my vote any-hoo, especially if she gets dem puppies out…….

  9. Gob, I don’t even own a firearm. Haven’t in years. Don’t own a printing press either, but I hold the First Amendment no less sacred. So who’s really “compensating” jere?

  10. With this much emotional violence aimed at one it will NEVER get solved. Because, and lets be honest here, neither of you wants to actually solve the problem! You just want something to vent your anger on. I’m glad you both found this post.
    Vent away!!!

  11. …since “the right to bear arms” issue has encompassed automatic weapons, all the politico fear mongering, “i’m worried about my rights” backyard dogma hasn’t amounted to shit…

    …what it has amounted to are dead human beings every time some twisted wacko w/ access & a head problem decides to go on a bender…

    …seems like more death & heartbreak has been created than any “rights being protected” issues…

    …just noticin’…

  12. Gun sales were even ramping up before the election in anticipation of a Obama in office.
    Guess who was priming the handle on that? I saw two groups–right wing flamers looking to push any fear button they could to get Rep. votes, and of course, those who stood to profit from increased gun sales. Demand went up and of course so did prices. And sales. I am sure the gun manufacturers are totally bummed that they are maxing out their capacity.

    Personally I see gun control being as effective as the war on drugs. Those who are law abiding will be just that, even if they are touting full auto with a 30 round magazine.
    Those who would use high capacity guns for illegal actions are probably not going to dump their illicit arms or be discouraged from trying to get them because of a new law.

    I also don’t personally see any reason to own such weapons, but some people like to collect, and they don’t worry me.

    AND…handguns are designed for more than one purpose. Check out a pistol designed for target shooting. Not exactly a svelte gun designed for killing. That is like saying a bike has only one purpose.
    I would venture to guess that more bullets are spent on targets than people in the end.

    What scares me most about this is the people and agendas behind such stuff. Pump up the fear. Scared people scare me most.

  13. anyone care to compare and contrast this with the Bush Doctrine on the constitution

    good point pirata. the fear factor is part of the whole gop thingy I forgot about

    Maybe Obama should start telling us all that the GOP wants to take away our condoms.

  14. Right to bear arms means I can buy or build my own nuclear warhead and you can’t do a damn thing about it!

    If you are in favor of assault weapons, but don’t believe I should have my own nuclear warhead, then we both agree that the ‘right to bear arms’ has a limit. We just disagree where that line is drawn.

  15. The Second Amendment was not written for hunters or collectors or target shooters. It was written so that We The People will always have the means to throw off the yoke of oppression imposed by a tyrannical government. Knowing this, and seeing which side is taken by which party, the choice becomes a no-brainer.

    There will never be a middle ground on this issue. And I’ve got better things to do with my time than to argue with those who are easily duped.

  16. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,

    Why is it that all the scared righty wingnuts seem to leave out that part?

  17. I think Dave, and others, that think the 2nd amendment states that we have a right to individually own arms should maybe read it again. It only says that if you leave out a bunch of the words in it. Although, I still believe in the right to own arms, the 2nd amendment doesn’t specifically state that at all. As Bob said above.

  18. two words that stand out in this post like Lisa Ann’s casabas:

    “afraid” and “losers”

    pretty much sums it all up right there.

    now, back to the important stuff… can we please see more of Lisa Ann? please?

  19. No, Dave has been a registered Democrat since he was old enough to vote; likely before many of you were born. At one time the party stood for something. Think John F. Kennedy. Now it’s led by a scrawny-assed Kenyan that I truly believe hates America. Not that the Republican party is any better…

  20. Giant:

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

    There it is, in black and white and in plain English. No wiggle room whatsoever. It says what it means and it means what it says. End of story.

  21. dave’s not here

    Dear Dave; admit it you hate the fact that the black man is closer to your tax bracket don’t you. I mean really hate it. we can tell in your language. your vibe.

    wait until China has a say in the one world econ system and you are driving a Chinese owned and made GM car.

    what a tard you are

  22. I belive the supreme court ruled last year that the 2nd ammendment is indeed an indivicual right in the DC handgun ban case.

  23. Retired Marine, Disgusted Republican (read now Democrat), ex gun owner. I came to terms with my inner man. I sold 38 firearms. I still have a single shot .22 for Mr. Bunny in the garden. It is time for our society to admit we have been arrogant, self serving, and treated other countries as lapdogs to do our bidding. Nowhere is it written that America will be “number #1″. Becoming world citizens is the responsible thing to do if we are to rescue the tarnished reputation we have created worldwide. I travel internationally as a tourist, and believe me, Americans are not liked. Thats not my opinion, that’s a bloody fact. Right wingers, check yourself. Besides rhetoric, explain to us, why do you NEED weapons created not for hunting, but for military use? And dont use the slippery slope argument. It holds no water. Cocaine used to be legal but you still have your disease causing, family destroying, poverty creating alcohol to swill at your leisure as you sit in the basement in your underwear and CLP your 18.5″ barrel Olympic Arms AR-15 lower half preban without the sear block installed. “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” — Sinclair Lewis. Greb yer guns Ma, thars a black feller at the door, an he be changin everthin.

  24. See, that’s the thing. I was raised in a tradition of enjoying the shooting sports. Guns were a familiar and useful thing in my home, and there was no mystery about them. They were a tool like any other, to be used properly and safely; to be treated with respect.

    I own no guns today because I have no task for which that tool is appropriate. That is my choice. It is not a decision that I would hand over to he government.

  25. Oh yeah, and crank-The hunting weapons vs military weapons argument is the archetypical red herring. The Second Amendment was not written to protect the rights of hunters. It was written to protect everyone, so that the common man would have the means to throw off the yoke of tyrrany imposed by a despotic government. As a Marine you should know better than to float that argument.

    And speaking of “world citizens”-not that I am interested in assuming that title; American citizenship is all I have ever had, and I have always considered it a blessing-look at the Swiss. Peaceful, orderly and armed to the teeth. ‘Splain me why they can do it and we can’t.

  26. Oh, and butthead-If the “black man” is doing well, I’m glad. Race is not an issue to me. Sounds like it is to you, though. So how’s that working out for you?

  27. Handing a bunch of money to Wall Street without so much as a second guess is not socialism. No part of that made the means of production, distribution, or exchange owned or regulated by the citizens of the United States.

  28. Not to mention the fact that intelligent black men such as KRS One do not like Obama. KRS One is not right wing by any stretch of the imagination and would I believe like to see true socialism enacted. KRS One believes Obama is deceiving all of us and I tend to question people a lot so I naturally do not trust him given the fact that HE HAS NOT CHANGED SHIT. So far he is merely less publicly embarrassing to the US.

    By the way, in case you have forgotten Obama’s policies have not been received anywhere near as well as his personal image. Get over your personal limits as to what you can see as the truth. All your personal attacks do is expose you as a W style ignoramus.

    Hunting is a great American pastime and nobody is going to be taking that away without a huge mess on their hands. I say take away the assault weapons from the citizens and the police. We’ll never have a healthy society by force, so you can take your troops and police forces and shove them up your motherfucking ass. All I have is a throw-away pellet rifle, but the thought of some pseudo-socialistic government force comming down on US citizens makes me wish I had my own nuke-proof bunker so I can nuke all those fucking police to oblivion.

  29. Dave, seriously. Why the attitude? “As a Marine” please just stereotype me. You forgot the fact the Swiss have the highest suicide rate in the world. Guess how? Oh, and as far as the great defense theory, have fun holding off the military with your peashooter. Small minded, stuck in a rut. Travel son, get a world view.

  30. dave just likes the rise he gets out of people. I don’t even know if he believes half the shit he says. When he isn’t spouting off Fox News talking points, being a bigot (which is the one thing I can’t forgive him for), and generally trying to stir up agitation, he’s actually made some sane statements. Maybe 10% of the time… o.k. 5%… 1%? He could try reading about the world outside our borders instead of traveling… Hell, even outside the borders of his state… You know, learning. I wonder what’s going to happen if his life gets better under Obama? He doesn’t like his world view challenged.

  31. WARNING: THIS POST MAY ACT AS A TARD-MAGNET.

    Pirata-

    The target pistol example is absurd. Consider this idea: let’s ban the handguns that ARE machines of violent human death (everything but target pistols) and see how that goes.

  32. You’ve admitted it in other threads. Is your memory that bad? You throw around “muslim” as an insult, and you’re proud of it. That’s bigotry. Go back and look at your past posts.

  33. Not bigotry if the facts in evidence support the statement. Pull your head out of your ass.

  34. Mikey –

    Tard Magnet? Nice. Arguably any blog is just that. Now you probably have pissed off those that were previously offended by Gnomes Arguing on the Internet post a while back. Is that the premeditated insult to counter any replies with a differing opinion?

    My response was less absurd than your original and subsequent statements.
    Ban all Machines of Death (MODs) and see what happens. I have a guess. Some people will continue to own MODs regardless. Some will be used in crimes. Some will legally buy “target” pistols and use them to put holes in paper while others use them to put holes in people. Ban all guns and people will still kill people with guns, knives, bricks, drugs, cars…

    Your original statement was wrong. You said that handguns were specifically designed to kill. I correctly pointed out that some are specifically designed for other reasons.
    A TT bike is not designed to race crits…you could but that is not the intention.

    You can kill somebody with just about anything. My point is that bans like this are useless, especially at this point in our history. Who is really going to go into every person’s household and remove handguns?

    Look at the coutries who have tried to impose stricter regulations to limit violence. Ireland, UK, Brazil, Jamaica…
    Ireland is a good example – guns were removed a while back to reduce violence, I believe terrorism being a key point. It didn’t help. Same goes in other countries where efforts have been made.

    Bottom line is that bad people will continue to do bad things regardless of available tools, let alone silly laws.
    No law will make everyone responsible. As long as we have laws, people will break them without hesitation.

  35. Ok, I have a question…

    Exactly what difference does it make how they regulate guns when any schmuck can just go out and buy some diesel and fertilizer and do considerably more damage on a much greater scale?

  36. “Your original statement was wrong. You said that handguns were specifically designed to kill. I correctly pointed out that some are specifically designed for other reasons.”

    Mr. pirata-

    No, sir, you are wrong. Of the several million handguns extant in the United States, how many are ‘target pistols’ as you extoll, and how many are ‘machines of violent human death’ as I characterize them?

    I’d say the odds are about 1000/1 in my favor.

    Perhaps we should run the same exercise for the handguns that should NOT be extant, that is, the pawn shop pistols in the hands of ignorant and ‘disaffected’ urban youths.

    I’d say the odds are about a billion-to-one in my favor.

    This isn’t that difficult: handguns are machines specifically designed for violent human death.

  37. disclaimer: I own a .45 ACP handgun. It was my grandfather’s sidearm during the Big One.

  38. Oh, and by the way, World War One sidearms were designed, manufactured and distributed to soldiers specifically to administer violet human death to Germans.

  39. You miss my point. I said not all handguns are specifically designed to kill. I did not claim the majority are target pistols. 1000/1, 1000000/1, it doesn’t matter, if there is a single one designed specifically for target shooting, then your claim that ALL are death machines is simply wrong. A .22 target pistol as a death machine? Not exactly a great choice, although I am sure it has been done.

    How many guns in the US? How many used to kill? If you look into the statistics of gun ownership vs. guns used violently, then you would see the the large majority are not used as Violent Machines of Death.
    Should I try and use a similar argument for cars? Drugs? Human Hands? Maybe not designed to kill but a minority are used for that.
    And yes, presumably any gun designed for war is designed with a specific goal of hurting another person. But that gets down to the whole issue…there are too many people who do not value another human life.
    Look at the ethnic violence in Africa. You have Tutsis and Hutus – thy hack each other up with machetes. Don’t need no stinkin handguns.
    The machines of death are nothing more than we the people…

    Target Pistol:

    http://media.photobucket.com/image/competition%20target%20pistol%20picture/Citizen_Carrier/MKIIIresized.jpg

    Machine of Death:

    http://www.movieactors.com/photos-2003/eastwood-dirtyharry.jpeg

    I have owned both target weapons and “machines of death”…and so far I have managed to not kill anyone, even hard as that .357 tried to make me shoot any moving creature.

  40. here is logic for you: one smart black man does not like obama therefore all smart black men do not like obama hence all ignorant black men like him hence we should not like him. thanks for that add Nimnod. Is that anything like: we can’t make a nuke bomb in our garage or shoot 5,000 rounds a min therefore obama is a commie…————fucking tard you are

    more logic, one administration takes away ALL our privacy rights with the stroke of the pen and it is cool by the people and not a violation of the constitution but another takes away just few select multi cal arms and it is uncool and Commie wacko socialism????

    simple question; how is it that limiting multi round assault arms is violating the second amendment and how will owning such arms protect us from the government or benefit society

  41. “You miss my point. I said not all handguns are specifically designed to kill. I did not claim the majority are target pistols. 1000/1, 1000000/1, it doesn’t matter,”

    pirata-

    It doesn’t matter?? You say I’m 99.9999% correct and you still have a point? There’s a subtle concept out there, “the exception that proves the rule.” This isn’t difficult: millions of unlicensed or stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of disaffected urban youth leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here.

  42. What the hell is with people just because someone disagrees with them, they assume that person is evil. The right wing bible thumpers were pretty bad in that respect but the obamadroids are just as bad if not worse. Just sayin’ Bet someone calls me a racist for using the term “obamadroid”.

  43. Looky here… a lovely little news item from today’s Times, about a young couple exercising their god-given second amendment rights and enjoying their ownership of a harmless target-shooting device. What could go wrong?

    >>
    By The Associated Press
    OLYMPIA — A Fort Lewis soldier is dead after being accidentally shot in the head and killed by his wife in Olympia the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office says.

    Lt. Chris Mealy of the sheriff’s office told KOMO-TV the soldier was teaching his wife how to handle a handgun when he was shot early Sunday. Mealy told The Olympian that the semi-automatic handgun was the soldier’s personal property.

    Mealy says deputies were called at about 1:30 a.m. He says the soldier and his wife, both 25, had been out with friends before the shooting.

    Mealy says after the couple got home, the soldier decided to teach his wife how to handle the handgun.<<

  44. Give me a fuckin’ break already. Lots of people get killed doing stupid things with dangerous things. Guns don’t kill people stupidity kills people. Had the solider properly instructed his wife on gun handling he’d still be with us. The most important rule is never point your gun at anything your not willing to destroy, treat all firearms as loaded.

  45. “Guns don’t kill people stupidity kills people.”

    Kirk-

    What a moronic statement. Perhaps you mean, ‘guns don’t kill people, copper-jacketed lead bullets traveling at 1200 feet-per-second do.’

    If this couple hadn’t had a handgun handy, would their ‘stupidity’ have splattered his brains all over the kitchen? You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here!

  46. You start by being insulting. I can think of a thousand ways for stupid people to kill each other involving many household objects. Cars, knives, power tools,etc. these kill and injure thousands daily more so then guns I believe. You gun fearing types seam to have a blind spot there. I mean you seam to think that somehow the gun is the cause of all evil and stupidity and not simply a tool. It’s the evil and stupidity that are the problem, take away all the guns and the stupid and evil will find other tools.One of the worst massacres on U.S. soil outside of the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 involved a gallon of gas and not a single bullet.

  47. We dont fear guns. We fear people that cannot think forward. Evolve for crying out loud. Laws are meant to be mutable, changeable, to reflect the changing social environment. Japan has one of the most strict gun ownership policies on the planet, and yet somehow, they manage to exist. Without their guns.

  48. Oh I’m not evolved because I think it’s my duty to protect my family and my nation if need be. I can’t think forward because I think the second amendment was a good idea. I see your Japan and raise you Switzerland. Lot’s of guns few problems. I was going to go one in a well thought out well reasoned argument but I remember an old joke about teaching a pig to sing.

  49. Mikey – take a second and read what I stated and then read what you originally wrote.
    I simply corrected your sweeping claim that ALL guns were designed to kill. I still stand 100% correct in my statement that some guns are not designed to kill. Your are not even 0.001% correct on your original statement. Thus the target pistol example.
    You are making sweeping, dramatic claims. I never said guns NEVER kill. I never claimed all guns are good. I still claim that the large majority are not used violently.

    “This isn’t difficult: millions of unlicensed or stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of disaffected urban youth leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here.”

    Millions of deaths is your claim now. Due to guns in the hands of disaffected youth. Interestingly, you bring up “disaffected youth” more than once, so arguably, THEY are the real problem, no? Guns are just one of their tools. What is your wish, we magically make guns disappear and death stops? Get rid of all potential implements of death? Accidental shootings happen, sadly. So does accidental electrocution. Drowning. Etc. Yes, not completely fair comparisons, but still potentially deadly.

    How about this: http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN2436680520080624
    Better get rid of these bastards too, thanks to some people in favor of protecting, these things are making a comeback, and taking a few of us with them in the process.

    Gun nut I am not. Another ungrounded claim. I haven’t fired a gun in a long time. I am just realistic. Violence is a sad part of our human behavior. Some of us will continue to kill with whatever means available until we are extinct or seriously evolve. Getting rid of guns will only change the way we do it. In the end it is indeed the human brain the sends the signal to hurt another person.

    Oh hell, now I just brushed on evolution…

  50. “I can think of a thousand ways for stupid people to kill each other involving many household objects.”

    Kirk-

    Another totally lame statement. If the 25 year-old soldier’s wife had been holding ‘a household object,’ rather than a pistol- a machine designed specifically for violent human death, would her husband be dead today?

    No.

    My timely and topical example- this incident happened near my home yesterday- clearly shows how the proliferation of cheap handguns leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. If you can’t concede such a stone-cold obvious fact, you’re blind, baby.

  51. “Oh I’m not evolved because I think it’s my duty to protect my family and my nation if need be”

    Kirk-

    Are you saying you require lethal force to offer your protection? You’re wrong.

  52. “I simply corrected your sweeping claim that ALL guns were designed to kill.”

    pirata-

    Take a deep breath. Let’s review. My statement is that handguns are machines of violent death. You cited the ten thousand-to-one example of a custom-designed target pistol, which is slightly more awkward to blow someone’s brains out with. A patently absurd basis to defend the proliferation of cheap handguns in this country.

    “Millions of deaths is your claim now.”

    Take another deep breath. In the U.S., ten or twelve thousand people die of gunshot wounds each year. Most of these deaths come from handguns and most are murders. Fewer cheap, unlicensed/stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of young criminals would mean fewer violent American deaths every year.

  53. “you guys are in the minority now. it’s supposed to taste like a shit taco.”
    -stewart

  54. History-

    When the bill of rights was written, a gun required a few minutes to load one shot. Making it somewhat useless to protect ones family from, um, lets say, 2 or more attackers. That, and the fact that the Bill of Rights used the Virginia Declaration of RIghts and the English Bill of Rights 1689 as a basis.

    Virginia Bill of RIghts has

    XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.

    Um nothing about an individual right to a gun there.

    But the 1689 English Bill states

    Freedom for Protestants to bear arms for their own defence, as suitable to their class and as allowed by law.

    Which means there is still room to write laws banning weapons or types of weapons in England, except if you are Catholic, then you are screwed.

    So now People claim they have the right to have a weapon in their home that shoots 100+ rounds a minute. This seems like an extreme stretch here, but I am an educated elitist, so what do I know.

    I am not anti gun, but I believe the founding fathers, while forward thinking, would have been horrified at the bastardization of their ideals.

    The initial intent of the post was to call out the fear mongering ‘news’ and tacit call for armed revolution. That is ugly.

  55. hey putz I just asked a question. answer the question. Compare and contrast the 2 issues rather than make your dogmatic myopic statements.
    please do criticize obama by all means and back it up with something other than socialist or antiamerican. that would be refreshig

    please tell me where it is that I drew a line in the sand? what I don’t accept is large blanket statements with no support.

    DOGMATIC google it before you fire back you stupid cunt

  56. more logic: Obama is limiting assult rifles therefore I can’t protect my home or defend my country. I mean I am at a loss here. people who process information like this are actually in out electorate. unbelievable

    what else can a person assume kirk other than you might be a racist? you have not given us anything to go with here beyond a made up name. give us a basis to know where you are coming from other than what you do and don’t like. at least tell us why your dont like it and the significance involved.

  57. simple question; how is it that limiting multi round assault arms is violating the second amendment and how will owning such arms protect us from the government or benefit society

    you’ve all said it now just tell us how and why for fuck sake. who knows you might be right

  58. Mikey and whoever is still following this fun one –

    Where did I defend the proliferation of cheap handguns? I didn’t. I simply corrected your all inclusive statement that all h-guns are made with the sole purpose of being gruesome machines of human destruction. I used target pistols as a simple example. Neither of us know the ratio, 10-1, 1000000-1, so lets avoid using unsubstantiated facts/statistics. The fact that there is a single one proves my original point that not all handguns are designed specifically to kill.

    I could go farther and state that since most guns produced are not used in any crime, let alone violence, that most are therefore not machines of death, but machines of amusement. Hobbies. Want statistics, check out FBI stats.

    “Millions of deaths is your claim now.”

    “Take another deep breath. In the U.S., ten or twelve thousand people die of gunshot wounds each year. Most of these deaths come from handguns and most are murders. Fewer cheap, unlicensed/stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of young criminals would mean fewer violent American deaths every year.”

    10-12 thousand is a far cry from millions. Millions is an exageration. Millions over the course of history if you take wars etc. into acct. So lets ban war I say. And young criminals. (why are all your bad guy examples young?) How many people are hurt/killed by DUI each year by the way? I am too lazy to look it up… Maybe we should ban alcohol?

    I couldn’t agree more on fewer cheap saturday night special type weapons, but that was not your original claim I pushed back against.
    Fewer violent deaths is probably not true either. Look at the murder rates in Ireland, the UK, S. Africa, Jamaica…despite stricter gun control measures they all went up. Not some NRA BS hype either (I don’t support the NRA, they are fear mongers as well IMO).

    Bob raises very good points. The Constitution was written a long time ago for those times. No way to look ahead so they did their best.

    Gun possession then and now are basically unrelated. Our government was designed to be flexible, allowing us to appoint leaders to decide when to make changes, amendments, and how to interpret the original laws. The current gun situation in the U.S. is a result of the actions (or lack of) by the government of the past 200+ years. Continued evaluation of this amendment has yielded what we are living with.
    Currently people do have the right to own high capacity weapons. Tricky part is that the same laws written and subsequently interpreted to allow this can also be used to take away.

  59. “Imagine all the people,
    living for today.
    Imagine there’s no countries,
    it isn’t hard to do,
    nothing to kill or die for,
    and no religion too.

    …Imagine all the people,
    living life in peace.
    You may say I’m a dreamer
    but I’m not the only one
    I hope some day you’ll join us,
    and the world will be as one.”

    …oh, sorry…driftin’, dreamin’, singin’ to myself here but these discussion not only tend to go on & on into redundancy & personal attacks (hey, i’m as guilty as anybody on THAT issue) but sometimes the seeming need for “intellectual” sophistry belies the fact that the KISS principal works as both an issue & world view…

    …just sayin’…

  60. Hey assface, when Alan Greenspan answered Jim Lehrer [I paraphrase] “no power has say over what we do” what part did you not understand?

    If you want to conduct a credible study on what people think about Obama, please do. I don’t have the time. I saw an interview with KRS One on Obama Deception, he made some good points.

    Fuck you and your dictionary. Obviously your nickname is butthead for a reason. I could spend all fucking day coming up with words to discredit you personally, but it’s not worth my time.

    A true jägermeister would be more lethal with a simple semi-auto 22 long hunting rifle than most people would with an arsenal of dedicated assault weapons, so I think a lot of the argument is moot.

    I think you’re underestimating the intelligence of our forefathers if you believe they didn’t think automatic weapons would be available at some point. After all, they did have pocket watches, so I would expect they’d be anticipating such technological advances.

    Not coming to terms with death is killing us! :-)

  61. Schultzie, bientworten sei fraggen bitte! Personal attack name calling in a discussion? Bet you are so mad right now you could just shoot somebody. You really scare me.

  62. Like I’m the one standing behind armies ready to blow your head off, telling you one thing and doing another. So are you going to call the police and have them send in the swat team, because you’re scared and believe I may have more than just a pellet rifle? I guess you think I ought to be resigned to the dustbin of history for questioning authority?

    You’re doing a real great job embracing fascism, why don’t you stand up and give yourself some recognition! NWO! NWO! NWO!

    WAKE UP MOTHERFUCKERS! I’m not the one you should be scared of.

  63. Jesus the illogic in this thread is just piling up and I really don’t have the time to go point by point especially sense most of ya’all can’t refute an argument without resorting to name calling. What I was trying to get at is the notion that our problems with violence have more to do with us as a society then the tools of violence take away one tool they’ll find another better to solve those problems then limit the rest of us decent folks in our ability to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our comunities. In fact I think it is your duty as a citizen Just one thing Butthead at least I have the balls to use my real name. Not like some…… That’s it I’m done

  64. “our problems with violence have more to do with us as a society then the tools of violence take away one tool they’ll find another ”

    Kirk, et al-

    So the next time you run afoul of some tattooed hispanic kid wearing a blue bandana, which would you prefer to see in his hand, a stolen/unlicensed pawn shop pistol (a machine designed specifically for violent human death) or… some other ‘tool?’

    Jesus, you guys are being morons. It is totally stone-cold obvious that the proliferation of handguns in this country leads directly to thousands of violent deaths every year, yet you cite examples like target pistols or knives as reasons we should just bury our heads in the sand and hope it happens to someone else.

  65. Mikey, The person will in your example will most like be able to get his hands on some sort of a deadly weapon regardless of any laws restricting firearms. It might be a firearm either made in a factory perhaps stolen from the police or armed forces or made in someones garage, firearms are simple machines after all. It might be a knife a baseball bat crow bar etc. I’d like to have the option of being able to respond to his use of deadly force with some of my own. I’d rather not have to rely on the cops. The people who shouldn’t have guns never have a problem getting them. So why shouldn’t the rest of us be allowed to carry them as well. I think I’m going to stop checking D.C. for a few days and do my part to let this pointless thread die. We can go back and forth but let’s face it we might as well say in uninison now. “I’m right and your wrong!” for all the good it will do.

  66. …absolutely right regarding handguns (& automatic weapons), mikey…

    …& i’ll say it again…the KISS principal would work but everyone on this site needs or wants to exercise their intellectual sophistry & the real point about people dying, gets lost in the translation…

  67. Considering there is an unlimited supply of “People” does it really matter if a few are knocked off in the name of freedom?

    Just say’n.

  68. …ya know, gnomer, that is a theory i can actually ascribe to but, fuck, it gets messy when they’re layin’ around dead in the neighborhood…

    …& chicks like octo-mom ???…don’t care how anyone rationalizes that shit, it’s sick, sad, stupid & a total fucking waste of so many resources, on so many levels…

  69. Hey, gun nuts-

    In my town early Sunday morning, a disaffected youth whose allegiance is pledged to a ‘notorious hispanic street gang’ drove by a small group of fellows apparently allied with- get this- a DIFFERENT “notorious hispanic street gang’ and busted a cap in one of them. He’s 17 years old and will be tried as an adult for Attempted Murder.

    Nope, nothing wrong here. Just a young citizen exercising his god-given second amendment rights.

    Then- you can’t make this shit up- on Monday morning, a young african-american fellow was shot on the sidewalk in the central district. Well, four if his friends decided to exercise their god-given second amendment rights and hunted down the alleged perp, and at a busy intersection by the airport- I’m not making this up, it’s on the front page of today’s Times- and pumped thirty rounds into his car WITH AN AK-47 ASSAULT RIFLE. One young fellow died and another was critically injured. A woman and small child in the back seat were miraculously unharmed. All four youths have been indicted on Murder and Attempted Murder charges.

    Nope, no problem here. just a few young citizens exercising their god-given second amendment rights to keep and bear assault rifles.

    Let’s review: I’ve cited three tragic instances of gun violence in my own town in the last three days, yet the gun nuts here say we need more handguns and assault rifles to feel safe. How’s that working out so far?

    Morons.

  70. ya, I agree with Gnome. Too many people, too little space, not enough weed. Cars kill people, but are not necessary to defend yourself. Guns kill people, but are not used as the og patriots used them. Obama has not outlawed guns, he won’t. But a .30-06 deer rifle is good for defending yourself from the govment, an Uzzi is good for killing your neighbor.
    “The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an “equalizer.” Egalite implies liberte. And always will. Let us hope our weapons are never needed—but do not forget what the common people of this nation knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny.” ed abbey
    What is an AK-47 closer to? A tank or a Hawken?
    i dunno, fuck it dude, let’s go ride bikes

  71. Schultzie, you do shitty math. You side step the argument, reply to statements never made, and then resort to name calling. OK, heres one for you, microcephalic. Check your blood pressure, tame your language, get an education. I’m outta this thread.

  72. The only ones burying their heads are those who think eliminating guns will eliminate violence. Continually using young thugs as examples is perfect. Did guns make them thugs?

    I will again note the Tutsis and Hutus. Not a lot of guns there but a lot of dead, raped, injured, scarred people. So how do we solve those problems? Get rid of machetes? Tree limbs? Schlongs? I think most would agree their situation has been more horrific than anything we have seen in recent U.S. history.

    And don’t forget the 2nd amendment does not grant anyone the right to kill. I havne’t seen that yet in the Bill of Rights. Although it may arguably have some merit.

  73. And just to interject a little fact into this spiraling discussion, the top causes of death in the U.S. are not gun related.

    Poor life choices is what is killing people more than anything.
    Tobacco, Alcohol, obesity/poor diet. What does this tell you?
    Tells me guns aren’t our biggest problem. Not even close. Suicide tends to rank higher than homicide.

    We don’t need to worry about guns, we should fear ourselves. Check the facts. (CDC, JAMA, something with some semblance of reputation)

    So whoever said lets dump this shitcan discussion and ride bikes has the right idea. Alcohol may be a rough one though…shudder…moderation?

  74. “The only ones burying their heads are those who think eliminating guns will eliminate violence.”

    pirata-

    Um, eliminating guns would eliminate gun violence, would it not? Have you been reading along? That’s about 5000 Americans per year. Yeesh, you’re making this too easy; you’re smarter than that.

  75. “Poor life choices is what is killing people more than anything. Tobacco, Alcohol, obesity/poor diet. What does this tell you?”

    pirata-

    That Americans are free to engage in self-destructive behavior? Look, I don’t mind if a guy kills himself. What I mind is when they whip out a stolen/unlicensed pawn shop pistol and waste ME or someone I love. This is not that difficult.

  76. Mikey,

    I have been reading along. Too much perhaps.

    Your idea really is simple, but just not feasible. Sure, if we could eliminate guns like eliminating small pox, then gun violence would go way down. But that won’t happen due to the “when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns” effect.

    Drugs are illegal yet everywhere despite pretty major efforts at eradication. Automatic weapons are already illegal but still used criminally. Short of installing an iron fisted dictatorship, I can’t see this happening anytime soon. And it still doesn’t get rid of violence, which is the root issue. It just gets rid of a means to an end. Humans are creative and have continued to find ways to work with what they have available. No guns? ok, something else.

    The only true way to get rid of violence is to get rid of violent people.
    That is my point. There is nothing even remotely simple about any aspect of the gun/violence/societal problems in this country.

    The thing that must be eliminated is the desire to kill/hurt another person. That is the ultimate solution.

  77. “Your idea really is simple, but just not feasible. Sure, if we could eliminate guns like eliminating small pox, then gun violence would go way down.”

    pirata-

    So don’t even try? Head in the sand? I don’t think that’s the best way forward.

    As usual, we don’t really disagree all that much. Thank you for your thoughts.

  78. …unfortunately, it is a case of trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle…

  79. Hey Pirata!
    Arguing with Mikey will just drive you nuts! You better just let it go. He likes to twist peoples words around, and try to make them think they said something entirely different from what they actually posted. You’ll never get anywhere with him! So for your own sanity, I recommend letting go. Okalee dokalee?

  80. Flanders –

    I have no idea what you are talking about. Isn’t it clear that all I am trying to say is mountain dew is destroying the teeth of inner appalachian inhabitants? Man, that stuff really needs to go!

    At this point I am done, gotta move on. I’ll just agree to disagree, which is ok.

    Got important things to do anyhow – eat pizza and drink beer.