From: Snake
To: Everyone who raced Leadville Trail 100 Mountain bike this year
To everyone who raced the Leadville Trail 100 mountain bike race this year. You can now move yourself up a spot in how you finished. (All except Dave W. You’re fine where you’re at.)
I bit my tongue this year before the race when people asked me what I thought about Floyd and his tests and all of that. I said “Hey it’s not my place to pass judgment on Floyd. Let the panel do their job and make the decision and they can be the ones. They heard all the facts from both sides and it’s their job to decide.” So I just kept my mouth shut and gave Floyd his “due process” What I didn’t agree with is him racing. LT 100 or the Shenandoah 100 that he did back east. Under the Pro Tour ethics agreement no rider is supposed to race while under investigation. So class act that Floyd was got invited to do a non-NORBA sanction race. (LT 100 organizers bought their own insurance for that day just so they didn’t have to be under the USA cycling umbrella so that Floyd could race). So he showed up and raced. Did he affect the out come of the race? Hell yes. Should he have been there to race? Hell no. Could he have been there to support the race and to be an honorary starter or figure at the race? Yes, if he wanted to. But don’t be there to race. So for all the folks that showed up and raced either race, move yourself up one spot. Way to be a class act, Floyd.
I so fucking pissed right now that I cant even think straight. I pissed because every time I attacked in that race Floyd was the one that brought me back. 4 different times I threw down with everything I had and was away until he dragged me back. To the Leadville Trail 100 MTB race, I hope you’re happy with what you did, you sold your race out for a big name to be there. You went out of your way to bring in a big name that was under suspicion and let him race. I hope you got your money’s worth. (I feel bad for Dave W. right now. As if he wasn’t big enough to draw more people). I’m pissed because of the way that cycling is right now. I grew up wanting nothing more than to be like my heroes, so I trained my ass off every fucking day for the last 13 years. I gave up so much of my life to live the dream. More like a fucking nightmare. Fuck shit I fucking hate this sport. Hey Floyd, go fuck yourself.
big jonny on September 20th, 2007 4:04 pm
God damn, man.
chris on September 20th, 2007 4:20 pm
i don’t know enough words to express how much i agree with you.
J-Dub on September 20th, 2007 4:20 pm
Don’t fucking sugar coat that shit Snake!! Never has never will!
The Pis on September 20th, 2007 4:41 pm
Landis, you suck the sweat off a dead man’s balls. Cheater
il Bruce on September 20th, 2007 4:59 pm
Amen.
bikesgonewild on September 20th, 2007 5:58 pm
…i toast yer right ta be pissed, sir…but don’t be pissed at the sport….
YOU, WIENS, GUYS LIKE YOURSELVES ARE THE SPORT…dopers are pretenders to a false fucking act thats been sold to the public for years as ’sport’ and not just in cycling…
…i don’t know david closely but we’ve know each other for years and the man has always been a class act, on and off the bike…floyd, i don’t know from, so i can’t say…
…but ya, he was suspended, should not have raced and unfortunately affected the the top placings’ outcome…you have a serious right to be pissed…
NSF on September 20th, 2007 6:13 pm
Point taken, but why the hell do we give a shit what the panel said. Like you, most of us formed opinions before a single participant in the arbitration walked on the campus of that crazy church of christ school in malibu. We also knew that this panel was going to come down 2-1. Two panel members have never voted for an athlete and one had never voted against an athlete. That was the biggest Kangaroo proceeding ever. Those who testified from the lab clearly had no idea what they were doing and did not know the protocols.
So, you’re justified in being angry at Landis, but let there be no suggested that this silly arbitration system gets to the truth. This system is another reason that cycling is fucked up and ridiculous. I forget who said it, but I always liked it: truth and justice are for the next world, in this life all we have is the law. The two should never be confused as necessarily the same.
cwbyker on September 20th, 2007 6:38 pm
GDWTF!!!!!!!
Oggy on September 20th, 2007 6:45 pm
Yikes. Must have been horrible when he sprayed you with that testosterone laden urine to keep you back.
El Ganador on September 20th, 2007 7:01 pm
Blessed be the man that eats snake shit while the grass grows green.
DrunkenBiker on September 20th, 2007 7:28 pm
Ok. I’m just a poser in this world.
Any pack I ride with, I’m dead last and happy to be there.
But……I’ve seen the guys who hammer away every day.
Snake……I officially hate Landis just for this post.
That said…….word to your mother. :)
bikesgonewild on September 20th, 2007 7:30 pm
…i don’t wanna detract from snake’s very real feelings & comments, which i support but after reading the statements made by the arbitration panel’s christopher charles, who felt the whole thing shoulda been tossed, well, i get the feeling that the 35-0 USADA’s attitude is, “we will lie and cheat to stop the lying and cheating.”…
…i, like any other intelligent person, wanna see this sport cleaned up but usada is letting slip through, the mistakes made by one party, the labs, in order to achieve the ultimate outcome, which is to clean up the mistake made by the idiots who dope…..
…if you’re gonna clear the fucking table, then, clear the fucking table…
pujo on September 20th, 2007 7:53 pm
Woo hoo we all saw that coming.
What pisses me off is another ‘legendary’ Tour champ doing the same shit and becoming a national hero. Lies, lies lies
p.s. I still think the doping labs are sloppy sons a bitches
pujo on September 20th, 2007 7:56 pm
As the post above me first reads,
(…if you’re gonna clear the fucking table, then, clear the fucking table…)
I couldn’t agree more. Even as a doper the labs are still completely accountable for their half assed and biased efforts.
Amen
CP on September 20th, 2007 8:09 pm
Can’t say it any better than you already have.
While we’re at it, can we drop the ‘miscarriage of justice’ talk from the Landis camp? I don’t give a good god damn if you think you’re guilty or innocent, pick up a newspaper, any newspaper, and you’ll see a hell of a lot more serious ‘miscarriages’ than your shit, Floyd.
the nostly reverend on September 20th, 2007 8:38 pm
the system is fucked up.
i’m not talking just usada, but wada, usoc, uci, aso, and all those ego-saturated groups.
the only riders that i know have doped are the few who have admitted having done so. the others–those who contest any allegations–no one will ever know for sure, nor CAN we ever know.
the only thing we WILL know is that some fucked up group or panel with egos and agendas of their own decided that he or she doped.
i’m not happy about that, but sadly, that’s the way of the world.
big jonny on September 20th, 2007 8:42 pm
Yo, I’ll work on clearing the table.
You broke my heart, Floyd. You broke my heart.
Bush43 on September 20th, 2007 9:17 pm
awesome fucking post Snake
This is exactly what one thinks one SHOULD be hearing.
Why is this type of Snake post so rare? Don’t answer that, we all know.
Kudos to Snake.
Trucker on September 20th, 2007 9:32 pm
Snake,
Most folk don’t truly get why your so pissed. The true-false thinkers of the world and the guys who know what usada, wada, usoc, uci and aso stand for…and the guys who talk of the “panel”…well shit! If those guys lined up at a race like the LT100 and truly believed in there heart, like you do snake, that they could win that day……….Well they will never know what that feels like, will they….
And they will never know what it feels like to stand on the start line next to a man thats full of shit, and they will never know what it feels like to watch these fucking idiots take photo’s of him……
So, Fuck You Floyd Landis…
Paul Rinehart on September 21st, 2007 5:17 am
Don’t believe the hype Snake. The lab lied and WADA is clueless and Floyd is still innocent. No way was justice done. A less-biased court may still exonerate him. You may want to believe that a cheater pulled back your attacks, but another possibility is that you got beaten by a better rider.
Jason on September 21st, 2007 7:19 am
Fuck you Floyd! Dopers Suck!!
CO on September 21st, 2007 7:25 am
Dude,
You have been doing that race for years, you know what a shameless fuck Ken is..You go to the pre race meeting and it is like a fucking revival tent..He puts on a great event, but he would have let anyone in…Although Floyd is complete fuck for what he did (without a doubt) in France…In Leadville you got beat by a better rider…What he did was lame, the code of ethics should have been respected, but the fact of the matter is, he was there…The promoters let him in…You should be pissed at them…
Melanie Meyers » Blog Archive » This about sums it up… on September 21st, 2007 11:20 am
[...] http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/09/20/class-act/ [...]
fish-e on September 21st, 2007 6:55 pm
Hey Rinehart – i think the point was he shouldn’t have been racing while under investigation, not that he pulled Snake back. If you wanna back up your defense of a lying, deceitful scoundrel, let’s see YOU line up for that race next year. Go ahead, I’ll even spot you a couple shots of whiskey. I don’t give a f’k what any court or panel says – Floydroid and his camp’s actions through these past months have told me everything I need to know about the ‘character’ of the man.
Brian Hep on September 21st, 2007 7:09 pm
I’m sorry but this crybaby shit about Floyd chasing you down is tiresome, you knew damm well way beforehand that Landis was going to be there, he has skills and I really doubt alot of people would favor you over him Snake. You should have also known damm well he wasnt going to the race to hang out and kick it, he was going for the win and has a grip of experience on fat tires.
I would have respected a simple bow out beforehand due to your feeling about his situation and it not being fair rather then crying that if Floyd didnt chase me down I’d have done better possibly implying you’d have possibly won, agains Weins? I dont think so.
You knew what you were getting into, stop bitching about it.
Marty on September 21st, 2007 7:13 pm
“Blessed be the man that eats snake shit while the grass grows green.”
…I’m not even sure what the fuck that means exactly, but it made me laugh my ass off.
bikescag on September 21st, 2007 7:14 pm
One simple creed to follow Snake..
You want to go faster?
Pedal Harder
I’ve been visiting this site for years and all I hear about is Snake kicking ass here in this race and Snake kicking ass there in that race. While I’m not gonna get pulled into the BS about the ‘06 Tour, I can be pretty sure to say that Floyd wasn’t doping during LT100. Hence, put up or shut up. I didn’t bawlbaby and whine when I was a strapping 22 year old senior in college and got my ass handed to me by a 16 year old Floyd Landis in a mountain bike race in Lancaster County, PA. I don’t want to hear it from someone who, by all accounts (whether self-reported or from others) is a card carrying badass, and can’t drop someone
Pujo on September 22nd, 2007 1:15 pm
Seems we have two arguments going on here.
Bush43 on September 22nd, 2007 2:13 pm
you’ve got a doper, who has built up his muscle mass and other “features” by doping, and he’s in a race, when he shouldn’t be in a race, because he’s a doper, and he is distorting the race
A racer who is a pretty good one, complains about the distortion in this race by the proven doper, who given his doping history, is likely juiced in the race being talked about, and then we have a whole bunch of asshats object that a competitor is pissed that a doper is in the race?
Asshats are as asshats speak.
MORE Riders SHOULD be waxing angrily just like Snake that dopers are racing with clean riders. It’s the destruction of “omerta” and MORE riders need to step up and get pissed.
Thanks Snake for saying what you said.
And for the asshats? Go fuck yourselves you fucking dumb ass sheep who suck the cock of the status quo. Apparently you enjoy the widespread doping, cheating, and bullshit that has killed some dozens of professional cyclists.
Brian Hep on September 22nd, 2007 6:00 pm
Was not Leadville a non sanctioned race? Does UCI rule 1.2.019 not apply to this scenario? Did not the promoter withdraw this from being a NORBA event?
So with this being “non-NORBA sanction race” according to Snake himself should he have not been there in the first place? Do the same rules set forth by the UCI not apply to him?
Get that check ready, the UCI prefers Swiss Franc and let us know when you start your one-month suspension.
Brian Hep on September 22nd, 2007 6:22 pm
Oh and seeing this race was a “non-NORBA sanction race” therefore NORBA and UCI rules do not apply.
Anyone including Landis could be doped to the eyeballs on a speedball of morphine and cocaine and ride around with syringes in his jersey pocket without bearking and rules set by the race promoter/organizer which seem to be non-existent at this point. Who is going to say something the people working the non existant doping control station at the finish?
Thats what happens when something is a “non-NORBA sanction race” and thats why there are rules like UCI rule 1.2.019.
Follow the rules yourself before you throw stones, Landis didnt break any rules but Snake sure did.
Bush43 on September 22nd, 2007 9:41 pm
Oh yeah!
We’re making great progress here on anti doping!
We got pinheads sticking knives in the backs of riders who do it the hard way, and giving a boost to those whose isotopic ratios of hormones show they originated from plant feedstock.
Real fucking progress!
Braindearth “Adolf Eichmann” Hepsisis: “All I was doing was following orders, it was important that there was orderly travel of the trains. I had my orders from my higher ups. The rules must be followed. If we don’t follow the rules, some sort of chaos will result. I don’t know what was in the trains. That is not important. What is important is that the trains left the stations, they unloaded at Auschwitz, and they came back in an orderly fashion.”
Hey Braindearth, why don’t you take rule 1.2.019, and shove it clean up your ass, Pat McQuaid and all?
You can cover up for doping, or you can just say fuck-it, it’s intolerable.
Doping is screwing kids. They’re faced with a choice, they can dope and progress against doped riders, or they can leave the sport. They’re kids and they don’t make the best choices always. Some of them are doping and they are fucking up their health and lives and living as criminals, and some of them are dying from doping. All the kids who actually have the talent to progress, but don’t dope, are left out.
You can come out against doping Braindearth, or you can run around like a blowjob artist who just found a kernel of corn in his mouth from the last penis you sucked and scream about rule 1.2.019. You have a fucking choice to make. Defend the omerta or defend those who dope. What’s it gonna be?
Brian Hep on September 23rd, 2007 1:00 am
Rules are rules, if you want to play you play by the rules and isnt this what this is all about? So what makes one rule ok to disreguard but another gospel?
Funny how tempers flair and obscenitys are thrown around when facts are and rules athletes are held to are presented.
Brian Hep on September 23rd, 2007 1:34 am
I as well as many other readers would sincerely appreciate you refraining from your borderline anti-semitic and highly dramaatic quotes out of a sporting discussion. You have some set of balls to start mixing the interworkings of the hollocaust with a sport as grand as it may be to many it is still a recreational activity, exercise and to most a game of sorts.
Your obvious ignorance or disrespect concerning what can only be properly described as attempted genocide is plain disgusting.
If you want to start throwing Nazi like sililarities look at the mad ramblings of one Pat Mcquaid, one of Landis’ stuanches opponents and one who also contaminated the process by making prejudicial inflamatory remarks even before official b-test results were released. Maybe we should look into the whole judiciary process in sport and how mistreated athletes truly are, I am not just talking about Landis but how about Scott Moninger and his contaminated supplements or perhaps Rutger Beke who had to go thru hell and high water to prove his innocence at what enede up being his own expense? Am I the only one who looks at this process and thinks something is wrong, what about that article in the LA times about Tyler Hamilton by Michael Hiltzik, is that LA Times journalist some kind of kook, how about the dissending opinion in both the Landis and Hamilton case, do you think you know more or are more intelegent then Mr Campbell?
Alot but not all of what I see on this thread is some loud mouthed remarks from some people who I think jumped on the “antidoping” bandwagon because it seems to be the cool thing to do but I’d go as far as to say more then half of you havent come close to the level of sport these athlete we speak about are at dealing with as their livelyhoods and the well being of their familys. So until someone walks a mile in ones shoes they should not be so judgemental.
If you really want to make a difference with kids go talk to some kids at little league practice or maybe at the local kids football or soccer league, go preach your anti-doping morals to the local high school sports teams, dont limit yourself to cycling you’ll have much kids to help and will probably make more of a difference if kids are your true concern.
Bush43 on September 23rd, 2007 7:59 am
Braindearth Hepatitis,
go fuck yourself
This thread is about Snake being pissed because a doper distorted a big race.
Snake is right to be pissed. Clean riders should go absolutely fucking ballistic when racing against dopers.
The pressure, from the clean riders, is going to do more to clean up the support than anything. It breaks down and trashes the omerta.
I am glad Snake did it.
We’ve often asked the question, “Why don’t the clean riders protest more, why is there seemingly such a lack of anger on their part?”
Snake has set a new standard. Finally we see a rider just go verbally apeshit over it.
To Snake and more Snake-like rants.
With respect to little piss-ants like you who want to cite Rule: “I am a bottom in the doping thing.” Go fuck yourself.
Brian Hep on September 23rd, 2007 11:02 am
Well Snake did know this was a non-NORBA sanctined race before he got on that start line, that was his decision and he fuly well knew what he was getting into, if you dont was to race with “dopers” then he shuold stick to sacntioned races like the rules he is supposed to abide to says.
Snake cried about Landis afer the fact, he knew what he was getting into.
Snake broke the UCI/USA-CYCLING rules himself. or should rules not apply if drugs arent involved?
There was no distortion, Landis was well within his rights to race and do as well as he could. Since the organizer had no set rules there were none to break, why dont you blame them.
Snake is bitching about a situation he put himself in, thats the crybably shit I am sick of.
Bush, grow up and stop trying to use your vulgar wittless comments towards something tht will get you and your double standards nowhere. You seem to have tons of energy to bitch why not step up and do something positive with that energy to go stop the kids form being screwed seeing thats your main concern, maybe use that energy to give crybabies like Snake guidence against breaking rules themselfs before they bitch publically.
Crybaby bullshit.
Bush43 on September 23rd, 2007 11:16 am
Snake=Crybaby says Braindearth Hepatitis
You’re on target!
I mean, you got in the car to go to Walmart, but you wound up in Wagadoogoo. That kind of on target.
bikesgonewild on September 23rd, 2007 2:47 pm
…my, my, my, aren’t we getting a little fucking testy, here…
…mr. hep, you made a comment, “until someone walks a mile in ones shoes, they should not be so judgmental”, as a response to b43’s remarks…
…how about racing 100mi in someones else’s sidi’s before you make disparaging judgmental remarks about the character of a man who IS tryna do it right…
…now, i don’t know you, sir, (& glad about that)) but you’re sitting there calling out snake for “crybaby shit” & “bitching publicly” & i’m wondering if you’ve raced the ‘leadville 100′ yourself…personally, i’m pretty tough but i’ve never raced a 100mi a dirt against top-flite competition…you ???…seems like it’d take more than legs ‘n’ heart…maybe a little bit of your soul as well, huh ???…oh, right, don’t forget about doing it for years (well before floyd) & consistently placing in the top 10…
…so, snake made some related comments & with his record, damn, i’m gonna pay attention to that…you make your negative, personally vindictive comments & i gotta think that you’re a pissant little no-brain…
…but that’s just my opinion…
bikesgonewild on September 23rd, 2007 3:39 pm
…jeez ,hep, you pissant little whiner…
…ya wanna sling remarks like “crybaby shit” & “bitching publicly” why don’t ya direct it at parties like the wada / aso / uci / etcetera bunch…they’re as big of a problem as the dopers…
Brian Hep on September 23rd, 2007 6:00 pm
Bikes,
I did send some direction towards the UCI.
“If you want to start throwing Nazi like sililarities look at the mad ramblings of one Pat Mcquaid”
So its cool to criticize the UCI, USA Cycling and WADAs methods and practices but when they declare someone a doper thru a trial of sorts that would not stand up to US or EU judicial/legal standards should not all their rules be followed?
Everyone is so quick to bash the UCI and WADA’s standards, practices and most importantly RULES. Its those same RULES you openly use to crucify riders such as Landis. Am I the only one who sees that as being at least somewhat hypocritical?
I guess some people think its ok to pick and choose the rules to which you follow based on convience and circumstance of the game as you go play.
Back to my initial point, Snake knew what he was getting into, it was no seceret that Landis was coming and this was a non-norba sanctioned event, he chose to line up and in doing so also chose to break UCI rule 1.2.019 just as Landis was found to have broken the rules on doping, both are RULES. So I just take what snake was saying as whining about the race after the fact, if he felt so strongly about racing a potential doper he should have followed the rules of the governing body who holds his racing license and sat one out.
Brian Hep on September 23rd, 2007 6:04 pm
So if we are to enforce and critize people based on RULES lets make sure we do it to everyone who breaks those rules.
Its funny how someone of you promote your own bullshit logic to fit your views, thats a sign of a true “pissant little whiner”.
bikesgonewild on September 23rd, 2007 9:33 pm
…mr.hep, who i still consider to be a pissant little whiner :-
(A)…read my posts & you’ll see i’ve always said floyd is the only one who knows…everyone else speculates…
…we’ll get back to why in a minute…
(B)you stated: “until someone walks a mile in ones shoes they should not be so judgmental”…in light of your castigating remarks directed towards ’snake’, i will now assume you’ve not only trained for, but used your heart, legs & soul to race ‘leadville 100′ for years & continually placed well…cuz until you’ve raced a 100mi on the dirt, in someones ’sidis’, you wouldn’t be judgmental, right ???…
(C)RULES huh ??? …you bandy the word RULES about like a flag…without clean ironclad PROCEDURES, ‘your’ hollow RULES mean nothing…how do you enforce something with disregard to facts…
(D)hypocritical ???…see any of the above, then look in the mirror..
(E)as regards my personal ‘views’ & ‘bullshit logic’ (i speak only for myself here), i’m not ‘fitting’ anything to my views…i’ve followed & had a serious love for both the activity & sport of cycling since the early ’70’s…despite my personal positive wishes for the sport, it’s obvious it MUST be cleaned up, but it must be done with the PROPER PROCEDURES…
(F)i defy you to logically present a case that doesn’t include money, control, ego & selfishness, for the circular bullshit that goes around & around amongst the ‘aso, uci, wada, etc…
(G)back to floyd, who without PROPER PROCEDURES became a ’cause celebre’…a perfect case for the above organizations to play out their own self-indulgent power struggles…guilty, not guilty, again, as regards that fact, i don’t know & neither do you…
(H)”PISSANT”…your attitude towards ANYONE dedicated enough to race the ‘leadville 100′…
(I)”LITTLE”…hey, point taken…i shouda said “BIG”…
(J)”WHINER”…your original rant was nothing but a “whine” directed at an a clean accomplished racer…he was the one who had something taken away, no you…
(K)DUCKS…as in “get your fucking ducks in a row”…
jesus chirsto on September 23rd, 2007 9:48 pm
Brian Hep.
I understand what you are saying. I think though you are missing what Snake was saying. He is saying that before Landis was found guilty(fuck all the shit about UCI and WADA) he was following the principle, innocent before guilty. Now that Landis has been proven guilty, it cheapens everyones efforts at that race. The fact that a now “known” doper podiumed might make the rest of the packs integrity questionable to the outside eyes. Yes they all knew that he was going to be there, and yes UCI/NORBA licensed riders borke the rules by being there. But you can not say that Landis showing up, when he is under investigation is not a bullshit move. It is a greedy, asshat move. He should of stayed out for the integrity of all the other riders, and by entering he has cheated them. Getting mad at Snake, who has said he did not have an opinion one way or the other(which in my eyes equals fairness and what our justice system is supposed to be) before the ride or the conviction, for feeling a slight bit cheated, afterwards is retarded. I think, not knowing Snake, that is all he was trying to get at, not that he would of won if it wasn’t for that damn Landis. I could be wrong. You are correct that everyone there that broke the rules should be treated equally.
My question does Leadville fall under the second part of this rule.
1.2.019 No licence holder may participate in an event that has not been included on a national, continental or world calendar or that has not been recognised by a national federation, a continental confederation or the UCI. A national federation may grant special exceptions for races or particular events run in its own country.
P.S. on a side note can you please post the rule if you are going to quote it so that those who are not UCI licensed riders may know what the fuck everyone is talking about. Sorry for not being a pro and knowing all the rules. If you did post it, kill me for being a bad reader.
Brian Hep on September 24th, 2007 12:58 am
Jesus,
Thank you for being non inflamatory and rational.
you said,
“Yes they all knew that he was going to be there, and yes UCI/NORBA licensed riders borke the rules by being there”
That sums up the majority my points. Snake as well as Landis broke rules according to UCI rules. I dont know the exact rule Landis broke but its well known that exogenous testosterone is a definate infraction, Snake broke UCI rule 1.2.019 which states,
No licence holder may participate in an event that has not been included on a national, continental or world calendar or that has not been recognised by a national federation, a continental confederation or the UCI. A national federation may grant special exceptions for races or particular events run in its own country.
By participating in a non norba sanctioned even as he himself stated Snake as well as other riders broke that rule, plain and simple.
As far as Bush comment about walking in ones shoes, well I have participated in a non-sanctioned event with someone who was serving a suspension, they placed way ahead of me so I think that does put me in a somewhat similar position, granted I wasnt favored to be the first at the top of the climb but I certinaly dont think Snake was a heavy favorite for Leadville. I dont know if that rider were on the substance they were banned for but they certainly destoyed my course time, dou you or has anyone heard me bitch about it, no.
So bush do rules really mean nothing, I dont have a rulebook and never said any rules were mine in particular so dont teist words, I specifically quoted that UCI rule 1.2.019 was the one snake broke, see the UCI part, as in its their rule(which Snake agreed to follow) their rules are also the ones that keep someone from throwing a pump in your spokes or the rules that also say a rider cant cruise around with a 59% hemocrit level. So which is it, do you think races should follow rules or shoud cycling become some sort of mad max style free for all with weapons boobytraps and hard drugs included?
As far as dating yourself back to the 70’s, I dont give a rats ass how old you are, or if you even invented the wheel, but I do agree that proper procedures must be folowed and procedures require guidelines or rather in this case rules, without respect for all the rules there may as well be respect for none because your nor I nor anyone else should be able to pick and choose the rules to the game as we go, that defeats the whole point of fairness and isnt that what this whole anti-doping thing is about?
Your quote,
“(F)i defy you to logically present a case that doesn’t include money, control, ego & selfishness, for the circular bullshit that goes around & around amongst the ‘aso, uci, wada, etc…”
I dare you to find me a sport where a non athlete has not or has not tried to not fix the outcome to their or someone closes financial benefit, and to further reinforce that point with an example pertaining to cycling in particular did not someone attempt to blackmail the Phonak team management and did they not serve a prison term? I think corruption in cycling runs way deeper then just doping athletes and thats the true problem we are having to deal with, are you to seriously tell me there is no sports betting with or thru organized crime in the EU? To believe otherwise is blissful ignorance or just plain stupidity.
I dont consider myself a large or small pissant, thats your perspective and you are well within your rights to have that opinion of me just as I have my opinion that you are just some loudmouth douchebag hoping on the anti-doping bandwagon because it sounds like the cool thing to do but hey to each their own and thats why this is a discussion.
bikesgonewild on September 24th, 2007 3:36 am
…despite your at best, quasi-intellectual perspective, you never actually take the time or don’t have the depth you need, to read what is really written…so bye, bye, thats all, yer done…
Brian Hep on September 24th, 2007 12:57 pm
Bikes,
I think I do understand the general premise of this, Snake is pissed that Landis was there based on the Pro Tour code of ethics, he did mention that but Snake also metioned Landis dragging him back and having a direct outcome of the race. Well this being a non sanctioned race Landis was within his rights as an athlete in competiton to chase down a competitor, nobody told Landis that since he was under investigation he wasnt allowed to be competitive. Snake complained about someone who he believes should not have been there, unfortunately the promoter and alot of fans felt otherwise and since its the promoters race with no norba affiliation for the year, it’s his rules, deal with it.
Bikes I appreciate your point of view and how you state it without being hostile.
bikesgonewild on September 24th, 2007 3:32 pm
…shit, i was out a this pool & toweled off…but i’ll jump back in fer a minute…
…brian, you’re speaking w/ your head here again, about rules…yes, i do understand that…snakes original post contained a combination of head & heart, rules & a palpable sense of abject frustration…
…my contention all along has been that to race 100mi on the dirt involves so much passion, that snake was wounded not by the breaking of rules so much as by the fact that a piece of his ‘heart’ was stolen…he’s trained & raced it for years…he’s got a great track record…it’s become a part of his persona, just as it has for david wiens…floyd, as illegal interloper, wasn’t so much breaking the rules, as stealing something personal from snake…which i can fully understand…
…by the way, i’ve never met the man & he might tell me i’m full of shit, but having been around the scene through the years, i feel i have a sense of the motivation involved…
…personally, i just wonder if, when he flies to a race & someone inquires about him, does his lady friend say, “snake’s on a plane”…
…sorry, anyway, mr. hep, no harm, no foul…i’m out…
Mr.Nukka on September 25th, 2007 8:13 pm
Heres what i have to say…..ahem.
Mister Hep, i have no fucking clue WHO you are, nor do i care who you THINK you are, or what you believe was correct. but what i do know is that you have publicly desecrated a man who would pedal circles around your pussy ass on a unicycle. Floyd is bullshit. Rasmussen s bullshit. Mayo = bullshit. There is a whole lot of bullshit, but one thing that isn’t bull shit is the twenty or so guys out west wearing “RIDE CLEAN” boldly across their chests, and Jake Rubelt just happens to be one of those men. And no matter how many fucking pages you weave into your “witty” rebuttal, your opinion means shit until you’ve dragged your ass over the fucking mountains in Colorado following the most doped up piece of shit in sport history. And there are an additional thousand heads on this site that do not just disagree with you, but thoroughly VETO your NOVEL of an insult slung at the very epicenter of clean sport
Brian Hep on September 26th, 2007 1:00 am
Mr Nukka is another Jackass who thinks he knows everything. He states that he dosent know me but is so absolutely sure I am going to get pedaled around, I’ve pedealed up and over many mountains in many states son, hell on even a few continents and probably one or two climbs you’ll never get to so dont go there. You said yourself you dont know me so stick to your primary statement, it made the most sense of anything you said.
Go ahead and say whoever you want is bullshit, that aint me but still I think shows you are talking out of your ass of course that is unless you have Mayo’s B-test results which are yet to be publically released.
I dont give a shit what someone wears on their shirt, guess fucking what you are supposed to ride clean if you are going to compete honestly and truthfully, you think someone deserves special recognition because they do something they are supposed to and wear a special shirt about it? Take that bullshit the fuck out of here thats ridiculous.
Guess what, I’ve never have used a performance enhancing drug not in any way shape form, not even under medical treatment. Do I demand some kind of special recognition, no. I may not be pro but I know one or two, do they deserve special recognition for playing by the rules, no.
Long story short, I dont like how snake bitched about riding with someone who broke the rules (supposedly at the time) by doping, Snake broke the rules by even lining up with the supposed doper.
People who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones and espically shouldnt make s public statement about it. He may be clean as a whisle, like he is supposed to be (woo hoo!). The fact of the matter is that he was not supposed to line up at Leadville that day if he were one to follow the rules set by USA CYCLING/UCI but apparantly he is not simple and plain. That was my whole point.
Someone please factually show me I am wrong, shoe me an exemption for Snake to break a UCI rule or a pictur of the guy holding the gun to his head making him do it. Until then I will see it as lining up at Leadville was his choice, braking the rules was his choice.
I am goign to start a team and make up some catchy name stating that these riders wont attact other riders or run them into barriers or such, maybe I’ll call it ridepeaceful. Then all you jackholes that think someone who folows the rules credit for absolutely nothing. Tell me what makes a rideclean rider any different then a pro tour rider who signed the anti-doping accord before starting this years tour or worlds? Maybe its the fact thats their marketing tool thats all? Does a rideclean rider forefit a years salary if found to have comitted an anti doping violation.
Riding clean is something you are supposed to do stupid, most of us do it anyway.
Brian Hep on September 26th, 2007 1:04 am
Correction from my last paragraph:
I am goign to start a team and make up some catchy name stating that these riders wont attact other riders or run them into barriers or such, maybe I’ll call it ridepeaceful. Then all you jackholes that think someone who folows the rules credit for absolutely nothing. Tell me what makes a rideclean rider any different then a pro tour rider who signed the anti-doping accord before starting this years tour or worlds? Maybe its the fact thats their marketing tool thats all? Does a rideclean rider forefit a years salary if found to have comitted an anti doping violation.
Should ahve read as:
I am goign to start a team and make up some catchy name stating that these riders wont attact other riders or run them into barriers or such, maybe I’ll call it ridepeaceful. Then all you jackholes that think someone who should folow the rules can get credit for absolutely nothing. Tell me what makes a rideclean rider any different then a pro tour rider who signed the anti-doping accord before starting this years tour or worlds? Maybe its the fact thats their marketing tool thats all? Does a rideclean rider forefit a years salary if found to have comitted an anti doping violation.
Mr.Nukka on September 26th, 2007 4:36 pm
First of all ..
I’m done
Go ridepeaceful or start composing your inevitably epic response to this post.
NO i dont know you
YES I am confident that you have some kind of knowledge on the subject matter.
NO i do not believe you should commission a ride-peaceful team as you obviously have some venting issues
YES i do believe believe snake was pretty upset
NO i do not think that you should have been at all offended
NO the UCI rules do not state ANYWHERE that racing against a “supposedly” doped rider is a violation of race rules other wise the race would have been canceled by uci and or usa cycling officials as soon as floyd landis was allowed to participate..
NO this isnt true “Snake broke the rules by even lining up with the supposed doper.”
and your difference sir is that even the pro-level riders on RIDECLEAN are paid NOTHING. the year of salary would be coming from the REAL job the athletes occupy.
Brian Hep on September 28th, 2007 11:37 pm
Mr Nukka,
UCI rule 1.2.019 which states,
“No licence holder may participate in an event that has not been included on a national, continental or world calendar or that has not been recognised by a national federation, a continental confederation or the UCI. A national federation may grant special exceptions for races or particular events run in its own country.”
Leadville was removed from the NORBA calendar, thats how Landis raced it.
Snake himself said it was non-sanctioned so he knowingly broke the above rule.
He went out of his way to knowingly break the rules, not by racing a supposed doper but by racing a non-sanctioned event.
When one openly, blatantly breaks a rule they shouldnt criticize others who do so, supposed or factual.
I’m just sick of those who think they are special because the follow the rules when its apparant they themselves do not follow all the rules.
We as fans, racers, riders, or spectators shouldnt promote this kind of critique, all cyclist should be clean and a professional should act as such and not go on a whiny little tirade about a race they shouldnt have took part of in the first place. Granted not all sport is clean but how many pro baseball players are openly bitching about Barry Bonds or Rafael Palmero(who was caught on antidoping tests as well). Thats the crybaby shit I was talking about, if you want to be a cat1/pro/whatever then act like one and espically dont bitch about an exhibition match of sorts, Snake had nothing to gain from a professional aspect.
If someone has a right to bitch how about Kloden, Leipheimer, Sastre maybe Cadel Evans. Those are guys who really had their professional lives disturbed by the Landis affair, not Snake at a non-sanctioned race he shouldnt have been at in the first place.
Brian Hep on September 28th, 2007 11:48 pm
Sorry, as far as rideclean goes there is money involved, the rider may not get paid but that money goes into a bank acct somewhere. They pay money to host their site, that Interbike booth wasnt free and those shirts/socks/stickers on their website arent free for the asking as well as I am sure the banners on their site arent a charitable donation to the folk at 53×11 coffee.
Mr.Nukka on September 29th, 2007 9:29 pm
The Interbike booth was free. They were allowed to share the space with Axley optix free of charge.
the money to run the site comes out of the pocket of the owners, as the company is applying for charity status (501.C)
and as for the coffee dividends. RideClean holds the Agency for Cycling Ethics in high regard and sends them money to keep pieces of shit like rasmussen , sastre, AND landis off the road, and out of the sport.
and as for them making money:
the site is a .NET address
not a .COM(MERCIAL) address
Mr.Nukka on September 30th, 2007 5:58 pm
oh that coffee thing probably didn’t make since, 53×11 is the roaster for RIDECLEAN coffee.