For all you Keystone State folks out there.
From: AK
Subject: Court allows Fracking in National Forests.
I am passing this on because it is something you and others in the cycling community need to be aware of. Although natural gas extraction will have a very positive impact to PA’s economy, we’ve had many questions and concerns here in PA over the process used by the oil companies to extraction natural gas from shale, called fracking, because of many worries about lack of transparency of chemicals used in the process, contaminated well water and streams, and air quality, plus funds needed to maintain stress on bridges, roadways from heavy equipment.. . .
A federal appeals court ruled this week that oil and gas companies can begin drilling in the Allegheny National Forest in Pennsylvania. The ruling says that the government only controls the surface rights in the national forest, not the mineral rights under the surface. This could open up drilling in all National Forests!
The ruling means they could start drilling immediately unless we act now.
There are two ways we can stop this:
1) The Obama Justice Department must appeal this ruling and ask for an injunction to halt drilling; and
2) Congress must pass legislation to stop drilling in all National Forests.So I signed a petition to The United States House of Representatives, The United States Senate and President Barack Obama, which says: “We urge you to do everything in your power to stop oil and natural gas drilling in our National Forests.”
Will you sign this petition?
Click here: http://signon.org/sign/stop-fracking-in-national?source=s.em.cr&r_by=331719&mailing_id=708.
. . .
Thanks!
Update: Some links on fracking.
– http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2011/09/29/nprs-fresh-air-discusses-fracking-today/.
– http://www.npr.org/2011/09/29/140872251/the-trouble-with-health-problems-near-gas-fracking.
– http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=136895815.
– http://www.youtube.com/exxonmobil?x=us_showcase_57.
Bigworm, check out the “hockey stick” viewpoint.
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2010/09/21/206729/hockey-stick-global-warming/
And she only picked up on part of the story. Yes there are cycles, but what is a problem is that the current warming actually goes against what many of the cycles should be driving. Also, working in the same office as climatologists does not mean you understand climatology, and just because something goes against your beliefs and desire for something to be wrong, doesn’t mean it is. I know it’s really hard to believe, but you don’t know more than the climate scientists actually studying the issue.
E – Yeah, so? My point is that the doomsdayers who are screaming “we’re all going to die, somebody do something” are wrong. What’s more, the trend currently looks as if it might actually be going down.
I’m also noting that the folks who are screaming about what a fool I am are not taking the bet. Not that I expected anyone too. It’s much easier to simply say someone is wrong than to actually put some skin in the game.
Thanks!
Burt
BGW – Nope, no oceanfront property. I’m a real estate appraiser, so all I do is break folks hearts when I tell them it’s not worth the materials they used to build it.
Wade – Thanks for the link. That’s the kind of response I was looking for.
El Jefe – I agree that it’s possible that we only got part of the story, and I only offered it up as another piece to the conversation. I believe as many, that human practices accelerate the damage to the planet. As someone else already stated, that’s the nature of overpopulation. I was looking to see if anyone else had come across this cyclical viewpoint from a non-media source. As for working in a climatology office not making you a climatologist, well, I’m not talking about a a mail girl, a custodian, or a runner. She worked with the director of the dept, and it’s pretty hard to misinterpret open mocking of the doomsayers. I, nor she, have our heads in the sand. We just don’t jump to the latest trend of folks screaming extreme theories, in either direction. That’s why I asked what the viewpoint in the department was, at that time. I figured that it may not be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but it certainly may carry as much weight as what I read over at Drunkcyclist.com, by a bunch of folks with cute, anonymous nicknames, myself included.
That’s your rejoinder? “Yeah so?” Dude you are on one hand saying global warming isn’t happening and then offering a bet in which, if it happens, you win. The chickenshit here is you.
If you think the trend is going down, put your bet there. If you think it’s flat, put your bet there. I am not a climate scientist but most of them think it’s going up, and that is, after all, what the data show as well.
A much more fun and meaningful bet would be one that rolled over every year. Warmer than last year? I win. Cooler? You win. It’s gonna vary a little so that will keep it interesting — this year was particularly hot so it may actually cool next year. Commit to five years running, 500 a year. See if Big Jonny will hold the cash for us and distribute to the winner.
Yep.
Bluster and cross links.
Climate change is the cluster-fuck of our age. Once “hockey stick” gets mentioned it all turns full retard. Would be nice to be able to trust someone over this matter. That will never happen.
Triple, how about climate scientists? You know the people that actually study the issue? If you cut out all of the chaff from each side, and just look at the science (which means ruling out the industry shills S. Fred Singer and Patrick Michaels), it is nearly universal. Climate change is happening, and a good portion of it is caused by us. Why is that so hard to get?
Start here:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/about/
no no no el jefe, Rick Perry said climate scientists are coming forward all the time disputing the overwhelming evidence. time to renew your fox news subscription and get clued in.
@Barry, that’s right. I forgot. Duh. Evolution is a “theory that is ‘out there'” (Yes, he said that.) Governor Goodhair/”I’m not the slickest canditate” (Again, he said that)/Mr. D for Diploma at Texas A&M (and this was long before A&M built a reputation as a Tier 1 science school), has his operatives on the case…
…that old saw – “anyone can grow up & be the president of the united states” that used to speak of opportunity, has never been scarier than it is these days…
And when that shit runs out, then what?
Francis? ‘Zat you?
@E – I’ll try to make this clear for you:
When a man is offered a bet, the standard practice is to either take said bet or decline to take said bet.
Big homos (like AfrikaShingle) talk all tough and then don’t do shit.
Pussies talk about how the bet ought to be changed in the hopes that no one will notice that their vagina is hanging out.
Either sack up and take the ‘NMT 0.1 degree temperature raise in a 13-moth rolling average as measured by the NOAA Satellite data’ bet offered or or STFU…
This thread is getting very tiresome, so I’ll keep an eye on the old e-mail to see if you grow a pair.
Have a great day.
Thanks!
Burt
Hoovis, I believe the climate is warming and I believe it will warm 2C in the next century. Judging from the terms of your bet, you seem to believe the very same thing. Why you angrily insist on a bet that gives you a 2C/century handicap when the bet is supposed to be about whether the climate is warming at all is bizarre.
It’s like me insisting the Yankees will never win another game, and then challenging you to a bet that they will win fewer than 70 percent of their games next year in order to prove it. Then calling you names when you don’t take the bet. Honestly, it’s weird.
So the problem with your bet is that it does not reflect your stated opinions. (See your comment @25, that there is no global warming, it’s all hype and bullshit generated by people with ulterior motives.) (Oh and also that basic decency should be a cornerstone of every adult’s behavior).
I proposed the other bet because it is easier to enforce (we don’t have to wait five years) and it was tailored to your apparent belief that the earth is not warming — a belief you are obviously unwilling to back up with your cash.
You’re a strange dude.
Burt = yawn. Doood is too dumb to realize that a) he’s talking out his ass, and b) the bet he proposed goes against his claimed beliefs. E, it’s not worth arguing with the village idiot.
All I know is that the heat finally broke this weekend in Florida and Saturday was so fucking beautiful and the Breeze from Up North so fresh and sweet that I did this: I DIDN’T RIDE MY BIKE. HAR! That’s right, you “ballers”, this old mother fucker who (as near as I can tell) rides about x times the alleged miles you typists put in each week just spent the weekend wandering around the trailer park with a beer in my hand and a couple illegal (for me) downers in my system laughing and goofing off and trying to piss everybody off to no avail. Try it sometime. yer buddy tj
chant wit me: LAH NEEN YAH! LAH NEEN YAH! LAH NEEN YAH! See youze on the hill.
The heat broke in TX last week. After 90 days over 100°F this summer, I can finally start a ride sometime later than dawn-o-clock. Highs in the low 90’s, lows in the 60’s. Fuck yea, I spent some time riding, and some time sitting on my porch with a beer… IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, NOT SWEATING MY ASS OFF.
Mikey, fuck La Nina. That’s one reason we’ve had such a brutal summer. Long-term forecast don’t have things improving any time soon. We need rain. Send some my way…
it seems the most important issues currently and into the short term and long term future are climate change, resource depletion, economic stability and food security and all are related. obviously we’re experiencing enormous climate variability. the days of easy oil in our petroleum driven economy are over. our economy seems unlikely to recover anytime soon. food prices are rising worldwide and driving revolutions and starvation. my opinion has been greatly influenced by James Howard Kunstler, Elizabeth Kolbert, Vaclav Smil, James Hansen, and David Orr and others. Check them all out. And even if you don’t buy into climate change, you have to buy into the mitigation of toxins and pollutants in our environment and environmental stewardship. and something to note, even if we shut the system down right now, the earth would continue to suffer the consequences of man made climate change. Again, loving all the of passion expressed here! don’t fuck la nina though, because she’s just going to fuck you!
…burt – why do you always ‘thank’ yourself at the end of your posts ???…
@Jefe— you, sir, may fuck la nina, I shall in turn glissade upon her silky climes fifty or sixty day before May. I’m thinking of maybe stepping up to a hundred-plus miles o’ skate. I’ll be at Vail in March, ain’t that down yer way? Keep the waxy side down, brother.
PS— temps in the low 50s and pissing rain all day today… and yes, I was out in it.
Vail’s about an 18hr drive… so not really my way much (central TX). March, it’ll just be hitting spring here. Great riding weather. I’ll likely head out to the Big Bend region for some desert riding/hiking.
@burt.hoovis Thank you. Glad to be a mirror for you and I must admit to being slightly amused that I got to yank your chain.
Oh, did you actually offer a bet?
Thanks again for the retard amusement, just remember not to believe any of it. OK?
Can’t someone declare the whole state as sacred – ya know…like snobowl?
On a serious note – they have to build these clay lined retention ponds for the frack water. I hear the water is salinated, briney, sulfurous. When the inspectors aren’t there occasionally they forget(?!) to run the frack water into the ponds and shoot it all into fresh streams. There are billboards all over the state talking about how great this natural gas is for PA. It’s only great for politicians pockets and egos. Surface water now includes chemicals from deep within the earth that it never had in it before. How cool is that shit? I’m glad I only drink beer and liquor. So lucky that my bike is powered by natural grass.
Is this idiotic thread still going on ?
It’s like listening to a Mormon and a Muslim argue. Totally fucking pointless posturing all backed up by bull-shit. Everyone is in a fucking choir on this subject.
Here ya go. Let’s end this now.
Triple, I posted a link to a group that keeps politics out of it, and just talks about the science. That’s what you said you wanted. No one else is responsible for what you don’t know or refuse to accept.
Besides, we’ve moved on to talk of the weather and skiing.
Turtle power, brother.
snow level 5500 tonight… It’sa comin’
speaking of sewius turtle issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxwUiDbRCk&feature=player_embedded
although this discussion is ending on this thread, it is definitely a discussion that shouldn’t end. and in the tradition of some of the other contributors/posters here, i feel it is necessary to also post an absurdist, contrarian video to hopefully catalyze each cyclist’s quest for deeper understanding of the imminent apocalypse that awaits us if we insist on stubbornly trying to bullshit climate change away:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maex3jW0Yw8
This is just a temporary stop on the way to nuclear energy. Barring a world wide shift in energy consumption, this is the future we live in. Remember, the largest consumers of energy are industry. No technology is safe. It’s science, and science is only true until proven fallible. Concrete has a life span of (at most) 100 years. Ground water contamination may be limited for now. However, like all human ideas, the regulations of fracking are on a human time scale. Geologically, this is a disaster.
Mr. rogbie speaks sense… my concern is that if there’s enough ignorance and fear, we’ll pass through a Coal Age on the way to nukular, and that too will be yet another global environmental disaster.
…bottom line – unless richard branson is gonna fly you through space to accommodations you’ve booked on another planet, you’re gonna have to deal with whatever climate changes & conditions are in the works here on earth…
…hot, cold, filthy air, dirty water, a fight for food, it ain’t gonna be pretty unless there is understanding & cooperation on a level that’s never been seen before…
…doesn’t matter who wins the argument on these pages, none of us are gonna win in the end if the results of the occurring problems, no matter what’s creating them, continue to exacerbate…
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…non sequitur…alberto fucking cuntador was pedaling a bicycle within a dozen miles of my domicile, just north of sf today & that bitch is lucky i didn’t know about it earlier…prob’ly some promo deal-y…
…i wouldn’t have thrown a piece of cheap steak ‘at’ him, ‘cuz that’s assault but i would have found a way to throw it in front of his wheel…just to, ahhh, ‘share the love’ !!!…
…fuck you, ‘berto & your ‘plans’ for the 2012 season…
Just water and sand? UMMM, no….http://www.propublica.org/series/fracking Ronald Bailey’s article is misleading, not surprising since he is an oil/gas industry hack. 99.9% water and sand, maybe, but when you are talking about 1-8 million gallons of water per frack, how much is .1% chemicals? some estimates are between 80 and 300 tons. there is also a difference between traditional and horizontal fracking that should be considered. Also, how safe is the waste water produced from fracking? would you drink it straight from the holding pond? also consider that only 50% of the water used is recovered.