Boom goes the dynamite.
Lance Armstrong just got eviscerated by 60 Minutes.
We already know that former teammate Tyler Hamilton said that he saw Armstrong take EPO, testosterone, and a blood transfusion during the Tour de France.
CBS also says that George Hincapie told a grand jury that he saw it too.
But the most damning revelation of all from tonight’s broadcast, Hamilton said that Armstrong failed a drug test in 2001 and that Lance, with the help of the International Cycling Union (UCI), “took care of it.”
more cannibalism within the peloton.
Seems to kind of back up Landis’s allegations of UCI corruption, for which he is now being sued by the UCI.
That was just the first few drops…the hurricane isn’t far away. I think more details will emerge soon…
Firesale on Mellow Johnny’s and Livestrong gear!!
A peleton cannot exist if it cannot feed on itself.
What makes that portion the most damning? And Damning of who?
btw, i’m not trying to be a smartass… this time…. just wonder why you think that part is most damning.
the ‘overtime’ interview with the producer and reporter is interesting, too. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20064874-10391709.html?tag=contentBody;listingLeadStories
Thanks, rockychrysler! I could not embed both CBS videos into the post because of some WordPress glitch (one or the other, but not both). But, I can apparently now cut & paste the code into this comment.
That is definitely worth watching.
My favorite moment was when Tyler mentioned the white lunch bags. I think Juan Pelota got a “little GREEN bag”
Lookin’ back on the road for a little green bag,
Got to find just the kind or I’m losin’ my mind
Out of sight in the night out of sight in the day,
Lookin’ back on the road gonna do it my way.
Lookin’ back on the road for a little little green bag,
Got to find just the kind or I’m losin’ my mind,
Lookin’ for some happiness
But there is only loneliness to find
soundtrack to the life of Juan Pelota inmate #2963947 San Quentin Prison
The lamestream media lost all credibility with me a couple years ago.
This 60 minutes episode brought to you by pfizer…
It is tough to care anymore. Armstrong was on the cutting edge of everything. I think that includes Drugs but I have no evidence to prove he is guilty. Is the guy that good at covering his tracks?
I still believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But this is challenging that mantra. All the lies from everyone just makes me not care anymore.
I think Tyler comes off as genuine and contrite. He is not media savvy or polished. It is clear that “opening the book” on cycling is difficult for him. However, it is even more clear how painful the last 7 years have been for him. He bought The Ticket, he took The Ride. He paid The Price. I have to think a large part of his depression stems from the lies he has lived. Amazing how small your worldview becomes as a professional cyclist.
I don’t really hold it against Tyler that he doped. It was everywhere in his era and maybe it still is. I find it hard to believe that most riders have learned the lessons that he has. Still, I’d like to think it’s a little easier to race clean in Europe these days.
…scott pelley – “…as we said, lance armstrong declined to appear in this story…”…
…gosh, that’s hard to imagine…
…now, i finally believe tyler hamilton…
Did Lance get his drugs direct? What is the name of the drug company that during the tour coverage that Lance was in the ads for? any connection?
Finally we can Believe Tyler
Tyler is a fraud, look at his eye contact and listen to what his body is saying. Can he blink anymore? Lance is correct this guy is not credible. He is still spreading lies. Lance may have cheated? but he still hasn’t been proven guilty. I hope Umbrella was kidding about being able to believe Tyler cuz that’s funny. Maybe his Twin is making him tell the truth now, or maybe he has some abnormality that makes him blink constantly? LOL, Thanks Tyler for throwing us clean cyclist under the bus by saying that training, and rest, and nutrition, are only part of cycling and that drugs is the other part, that is only true with you cheats!!! Not with the REAL hardmen! Most of us that really love cycling, love it so much that we compete even if we get are arses handed to us every weekend. We don’t need to dope for cycling, we don’t even need payed to do it. We love it that much!
Does the Lance disinformation fund pay you by the word or by the post?
At least run your paid shills for Pharmstrong through a spellcheck.
…gary mapes sounds like a ringer…i agree, cap’n tony…prob’ly a monitor paid to scan cycling sites & disparage tyler because the nature of the ’60 minutes’ broadcast was already known…
I think Tyler did a credible interview….that being said, I need a little physical proof…..Show me the failed test from the Swiss Tour, how do you ride this long and not fail a test….he may have won 7 tours but he isn’t perfect….I have to be honest this interview has me leaning a little more against Lance…..If George actually comes out you might well just have a directed verdict of guilty
I suppose the social construct that constitutes “doping” is bad, only in the sense that there are rules which, in theory, should be followed.
EPO: bad. Caffeine: good. Thousands of dollars for nutitionists, coaches, masseurs, endrocrinologists, etc.: perfectly legal, despite being a perfectly unfair disadvantage to those not born to privilege or wealth.
Fuck this shit.
I find the gossipy games of “gotcha” to be totally off-putting. The obsession on dragging people through the mud on hearsay is kind of sick, especially when these hearsay twits are the same honest folks that brought us great stories like chimeric twins, the post-race whiskey recovery, and domestiques hired to monitor the blood chest in Girona. Guys who got busted and have nothing left in them but some local hill-climbs, tell-all books, and maybe a chance to coach some old/rich/slow wanna-be weekend warriors.
I’d like to enjoy these 21st century thoroughbreds racing up 22% grades, frothing at the mouth, without some asshole whining about how reprehensible it is to cheat. We aren’t in kindergarten, anymore. We know the deal. We’re grown-ups. Cheating is bad (*wink*).
If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.
Don’t be angry at the dopers…be angry at your own naivete. It never was, and never will be, “clean.” Whatever you think “clean” means anyway.
While I understand the boy’s need to get a load off his chest I really don’t get why he has to do it in such a public fashion. Aren’t there rules about talking to reporters during criminal investigations?
I mean I really don’t get it. OK, you and your friends did something wrong a while back. You thought it would be alright, everybody else was doing it. But you got caught and now you are in trouble so you go on a national television news show to talk about it?
This is just between him and his friends and the judge. If he has any friends after last night.
All legal and ethical business aside…I was on EPO in various formulations for a few years…quite legally…It’s the shit!…Man you’ve gotta work damn hard to even get out of breath…Riding friends would watch me with envy cavorting all over the place while they suffered…
Would anyone have watched if Tyler was telling HIS story, instead of Lance’s? Sell that book Tyler, sell that book!
Just like Dennis Miller said, “Nobody finds Jesus on prom night…”
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Tony, I think you missed my point. I never said I believed Lance, my point is this… It’s kind of hard to believe that Tyler is truthful! Previously he claimed some BS about an unborn twin causing his positive test results, but then later says he did juice up. He says he didn’t take drugs for the Olympics, but did for other races? C’mon the Olympics was a goal event for him, I find it hard to believe that he would dope for events that are not as important to him but not his goal event?! I think what ticks me off about Tyler is that he makes the non cycling community believe that all cyclist are drug users. I’m just a lowly local racer, and its sad that my non-cycling friends think we all use drugs because of Tyler’s lack of ability to make his own choices and then say to be an elite cyclist you must dope. This is a blog, sorry, but I’m not wasting my time proof reading.
I can only hope that this is the tide that changes the culture. We all ride our bikes b/c we love it and will all ride whether they dope or not. Yesterday’s Giro stage was indicative of another program. 7 + hours in a mountain stage AFTER the Zoncolon?? The reality is that race promoters need to add another rest day or help with the spacing on the difficult Mt Stages etc. ? it is another cog in the machine to clean up and change the culture.
Git rid of the old shady Team Bosses, the Dr’s with a past, the old guard shady riders, keep the “No needle” policy and put some time btwn difficult stages.
It is clear that Landis and Tyler got to a point where the weight of cheating was more than the nothing that they had to lose. Frankie has always been credible to me, he admitted when he had a lot to lose, and he did.
By the way, did anyone see the dude running beside Contador with a piece of Beef on a stick on Zoncolon? Then yesterday with a big needle? LMAO..
I am fairly certain the guy doped, he slayed people who doped, and was surrounded by people who doped. Yet very few people here or really anywhere care to look at a subject that was just touched on in the episode briefly, and that is how these dopers are able to get away with it so often? I think the real crime is the lie of cleaning up the sport. If Tyler was taken care of by Lance’s people what does this say about the Spaniard? What does it say about the controls in the first place? What does it say about the outcome of the races and the players behind the curtain? In this multi million dollar sporting industry we consistently seek out the person to blame and I for one think looking inside the peloton is like cleaning up the crack problem by going only after the users. The stink may be easiest to find in the peloton, but believe me I doubt those guys are the one taking a shit on us. Just pawns in a game. Sure they should be held accountable, but so should the whole of the sport, from the top on down.
Oh, by the way Tony, that looney tunes skit was pretty funny! I give you props for that one. LOL
What a fucked up thing! Everyone’s convinced Lance doped, but never failed a test. Two former dopers WHO GOT CAUGHT out Armstrong. Lance probably doped at some point, before they really started coming down on it, just like most guys did in other sports back in the day when the stuff was not illegal or at least not on anyone’s radar.
I don’t care – we are spending tons of energy on yesterday’s news. Now if he lied to a Grand Jury or something, that is different, but the whole doping thing is a waste of time. It is just a vendetta at this point. People just want to see this guy go down. You think the UCI covered up failed doping tests? Please.
I believe the sport is cleaner these days, and at least cycling is trying to do its laundry in the open. They just need to ban proven dopers for life and end all this nonsense. I am just going to focus on what is going on now.
To ride in the pro peloton you must dope. Period. End of story. Everybody who knows anything about pro cycling knows this. Maybe they’re not using massive amounts of roids like bodybuilders but if they don’t enhance their hematocrit and use the best aids to recovery they’ll get shelled out the back.
I actually feel sympathy for individual riders faced with the decision of doping or going home. I agree with AngryBuddhist. The riders are just pawns.
I despise LA not for all the cheating, lying and stealing but for his bullying, his arrogance, his grifter game with cancer survivors.
Jeff Novitsky may not convict him on all charges.
But in the court of public opinion LA is guilty of ASSHOLISM.
Armstrong = Clemens . Soap on a rope . No one is bigger than life .
I expect the Feds will drop the bomb at the Tour Swiss and then serve the papers during the tour . Armstrong is being watched very closely now and its to late to run . The end game is near , you cannot hide behind the banner of cancer no more . Check mate !
Tyler is a lying/twitching/blinking/faking/chimeric-twin-having dick. His ridiculous lies (after that beautiful broken collar bone? Oh.) were the straw that broke my interest in “PRO” cycling as anything other than casual.
Who cares anymore?
I bet a big percentage of the pro peleton are juiced or cheating in some form, but to state that every one of them cheat would be speculation. I guess I’m a little optimistic in my view, but I would think someone out there is clean? Please tell me its true!
@Gary Mapes Sorry dude. I guess you’re a real person and not a paid LA blogger? It’s hard sometimes to tell the robots from the living.
Until Novitsky is finished there’ll be a lot more dirt. And honesty. Even from liars like Floyd and Tyler.
There’s a big difference between lying to the UCI, the gullible general public and lying to the Feds.
If you lie to the cycling faithful and cancer survivors, they send you money.
If you lie to the Feds, they send you to jail.
As soon as I saw the news breaking I headed here to get reaction.
What can be done to rid the sport of dopers? Let’s say an embedded microchip were developed to test continuously? Would it lead to a new generation of hacker-dopers?
Hw do we get rid of dopers in professional sports?
1. Stop buying the sponsors’ shit.
2. Stop buying the logo-emblazoned apparel.
3. Turn off the television.
When enough people actually take these steps, we will have rendered professional sports — and lots of other sponsor-bankrolled entertainments — completely irrelevant. More importantly we will have discovered our real power — something the sponsors do NOT want us to learn.
I like the way you think. It’s a road map for restricting the influence of corporations in our lives.
Does this mean I have to burn those cool CSC and Cervelo jerseys I bought last year? They were on sale and they actually fit my ectomorph frame.
Can I just keep one?
Tyler’s whole affect lacked credibility. He sounded like a grumpy 15 year-old punk. Where you going? Out. When you coming back? later. When did you see Lance dope? At times. How often? Lots. Comparing his statements to Landis’, at the very least Floyd provided specifics. If the doping was such a big part of the USPS team, where are the details? The interviewer even seems to be saying ‘who IS this guy?’
…never gonna happen, beth h…watching pro sports has become a pervasive part of our culture & it’s a release for the guy (or girl) who works 5 days a week…he’s got work issues, money’s tight, he’s trying to raise a family & no matter how screwed up other things in his life are, he can catch a game…
…maybe he plays a little sandlot baseball on the weekends or a pickup basketball game if he’s got the time & afterward, it’s a beer or 3 with “the guys” & watch how the pros do it…it’s a part of the bonding thing for you & your buddies…i honestly think most guys don’t really care if their sports icons “use”…football, baseball, basketball – we want gladiators…
…then there’s the whole pro sports book that sustains gambling – huge money there…
…it’s hard to imagine changing it…a guy makes, say, $70,000 a year, scrabbling to keep a family life together but he’ll have no compunctions about gladly watching his local sports team where a player might be making $70,000 a game…
…it’s out a’ whack but it’s the way it is…
So where was everyone last year when Landis was saying the exact same shit?? Oh that’s right, everyone was calling him a scumbag and a douche. Understand, I’m not saying that he isn’t a scumbag, he definitely used to be one, but many people believed he was telling the truth.
As to physical evidence. Don’t forget, ’60 Minutes’ was asking for physical evidence, and was getting stonewalled. I’m sure Novitsky and his fists ‘o fury full of subpoenas got a lot more cooperation.
To blame any one person for this problem is ridiculously simplistic. Racers are to blame, sure, but also team owners and management (who are mostly ex-racers who doped, btw) and of course last but not least, the UCI. I’m still amazed at the stupidity of the lawsuit that they brought against Landis for his statements last year. With their long track record of very inconsistent disciplinary measures combined with these ‘pay to play’ allegations floating around, isn’t sort of like threatening someone by putting your own balls on an anvil and giving them a hammer.
Who cares? Why should they be prosecuted for lying or doping? Politicians are not–the money makers and rule makers and sponsors don’t do the hard work, why should they care who takes what? Should their exercise regimens be questioned too? Or diets?
Surely there are other legal matters much more important to see to. They went to a lot of trouble to compete and made boatloads of money for the sponsors and officials. Its their health and they look in good health to me.
Wendel #22 wins.
I don’t really agree with all his points, but one thing is clear: this brouhaha boils down to “he said/she said.” And Tyler lied for years. Nothing is sorted out here. Fizzle goes the dynamite.
While I don’t like the idea of someone getting ahead by doping, and I want to see someone get whats comin’to’em. I want all the people, who yelled at us when we said Floyd/Tyler were lying and dopers to come forward and apologize. I really have a bad gut feeling about this. I feel it will destroy the sport. It will destroy the creditability of teams like Ride Clean. I want people to focus on the future and start figuring out how we can teach the younger riders not to follow the rabbit down the rabbit hole. I want to see lifetime bans for dirty tests. None of this two year suspension blah blah blah. You cheat your gone. You commit a crime gone. I feel we as a community are trying to alter the past not better the future.
Oh yeah good seeing the DC flag flying at the ToC. Whoever that was running in the Jersey alongside the riders good on ya.
…here, yes but ultimately, i don’t think so, mikey…this is just the public disclosure by way of the media of a federal case that may yet prove to be the undoing of certain parties & not necessarily only lance armstong…
…he’ll be included, as a partial owner in the ‘sports company/companies’ that ran the “u.s. postal service cycling team” but the “g”, through the food & drug agency & nowitsky is talking about “fraud” & this grand jury situation has had a lotta time n’ money invested…
…it’s not gonna get swept under the rug…
…marion jones, barry bonds, roger clemens – those cases were about lying to the feds, not fraud…
…jones did some time, bonds who they wanted to nail so badly, that the prosecutors allowed their witnesses to constantly fuck up, so he will get off lightly when sentencing comes up due to procedural mistakes in his trial…something like only 1 out of 8 charges was allowed to be considered…
…with these cases as a benchmark, ‘team legal lance’ is gonna publicly discredit, loud & clear, any of these former cyclist/drug users/liars’ so that if it comes down to a jury trial, as much doubt as possible will have already been cast on their veracity…
…now – i believe the andreus, hamilton & landis…
If you didn’t dope, someone (or the entire peloton ) who did dope would beat you. These people really didn’t have a choice, it was dope or go home. Everyone doped and everyone knew about it. I remember reading about it back in 1999, it wasn’t a secret. Riders openly complained that they were fired for refusing drugs. I remember in the early days of EPO when riders were dieing in their sleep, their blood so thick from EPO their hearts couldn’t pump it. They had to be woken every hour to get their blood flowing.The anti doping forces are hypocrites, claiming they are surprised and shocked to learn of this, when they knew and were turning a blind eye to it before. I still love the sport and have no interest in seeing these people prosecuted for something that was universally done. It’s not cheating when everybody is doing it. And they still are. a few have even been caught this year.
…the one thing tyler hamilton didn’t do & it might have been interesting, was to talk about his time racing for bjarne riis & csc & even phonak…
…barney has always been at the top of the game with one of the best teams featuring the best riders, staff, etc, etc…i’d have to assume he had (has ??? – contador looks unstoppable, at least on a bike) the best doping program…
…if you’re gonna blow it open, mr hamilton, blow it the fuck open…
Amen Bikesgonewild. Settle for nothing now, settle for nothing later.
When is Pat going to sue Floyd? Is he going to sue Tyler, 60 mins and the head of the doping lab too? This ought to be interesting…
The cynic in me says that the main reason Tyler spoke to 60 minutes was to promote his upcoming book. He’s broke like Floyd.
Maybe all the dirt from CSC will come out. I hope so. I love the unvarnished truth.
Although I believe Tyler is telling the truth one thing that disturbs me is how is he talking about his grand jury testimony before the grand jury is finished.
Can he legally talk about these things? Does he have a deal with Novitsky that allows him to speak out? Why did George defer to the ongoing investigation?
Big Jonny or any of you lawyers out there, what’s the law?
I WANT to believe Lance is clean. I THINK Tyler and Floyd are telling the truth simply because if they lie to that Grand Jury they are in a world of hurt. Broke is one thing, living in a US jail is quite another. For me my verdict depends on Hincapie. If he follows up with a corroborating story then Lance is almost assuredly guilty too.
Hey lance people: rather than putting your faith in others, put it in yourself. Others, will always let you down.
Hey non-lance people: ditto.
Anyone wanna go for a bike ride?
Jack I think the prosecution is more likely to be for drug traffiking, tax evasion, misuse of federal funds or perjury rather than having some injections in europe.
@jimmy c – lets ride some fucking bikes.
28 miles today, going for fifty tomorrow. See you out there, brothers and sisters.
Three unassailable facts and a personal comment:
First off, any one that is surprised by this needs to get to a doctor right away… Because your head is obviously so far up your ass that you are going to need a medical professional to get it out.
Second, riders dope because we the fans pay them to dope. Indirectly, yes, but we do. Same thing with the NFL by the way. We demand that the athletes *destroy* themselves day after day, week after week for our entertainment… And if they slow down or get injured? Their soft. They let us down. They get booed.
Third, cancer patients support Lance because they have too. He is their hope. He is proof that an impossible foe can be defeated. If they stop believing in him, they stop having hope, and any good oncologist will tell you that hope is the most powerful drug any cancer patient can have. Because of this, the cancer community will defend Lance to the very end. Even if he gets put in big-boy jail, they will be right there waiting for him when he gets out. Hope… with a capital H…
Personally, I’ve never liked the guy. I’ve met him many times, and he is an arrogant asshole. He has obviously doped. Dropping the best, most genetically gifted riders in the world, who are themselves doped to the gills, is proof positive that he was using. When he denies it, what he’s really saying is that he thinks your an idiot, you’re beneath him, and that you’ll believe anything. You’ll believe what you’re told to believe.
it was made quite clear that TH was granted partial immunity in the investigation on the condition that if he lies the immunity is gone.
and those who claim to know body signals please be specific. what body part/reaction leads to the probability of a lie. cite your sources and document your survey. please stop with the dogmatic statements. unless you specialize in behavioral sciences.
beth. viewership and the sale of merchandise is an after thought and doesn’t make a financial dent in a team sponsorship.
…butthead @ #59…yep, fully agree with both comments…
…butthead @ #60…apropos of nothing but interest…someone who knows told me the sf giants have been selling 1 million dollars worth of team merchandise consistently, every 3 days since the end of the world series back in october…
…not a bad little haul, ya ???…
we are talking cycling man. a cycling team budget wont make or break on merch. especially at start up Look at LeoTard Trek
now we could stop buying yellow wrist bands @ sister60
and we all know it is ghay to wear team kits
although big jonny wears big reds telecom jersey still
and to all the cancer tears: TH outing isnt aimed at the kid on chemo.
how do you think the kid on chemo will feel when he learns the foundation he believed in was just a front for fraud? the phrase that comes to mind is ‘pulling the wool over the eyes’
As the doping affairs have continued to grow I have found it adds a whole new element of excitement to the racing season. Like the Tour for example, you just never really have a complete grasp on where things are at. Today the race leader, next day a surprise revelation about new detection methods and a shakeup in the GC. Even once the race is over it may not really be… At this rate the average tour may take years to be finalized when you factor in the soap opera quality theatrics from the resultant allegations, positives etc. Like a competitive game show perhaps.
Only way the doping goes away is when the money flat out disappears, which barring a total disintegration of the sport, doesn’t look likely to happen. Hell, we have category racers in the US getting popped, so it obviously doesn’t take much incentive to drive some to cheat via the pharma route.
When you take a step back it is really kind of funny how insane things can get so people can race a fucking bicycle.
@butthead #59 – exactly.
Tyler must be lying now because he seemed nervous and uncomfortable. Therefore, 60 minutes is a cut-rate TV rag complicit in the witchhunt to steal taxpayer money and crucify a hero. The ends justify the means, and it doesn’t matter if Armstrong had to intimidate, lie and cheat his way to the top because everyone was doing it.
Even if Tyler is going to write a tell-all book – for income and/or to clear his conscience – why is it necessarily false? If he was lying before, how can he be lying now?
Yeah, pirata, yeah.
…whoa there, butthead, whoa…
…as i said, “apropos of nothing but interest”…i was simply stating a fact that was recently revealed to me which i thought was interesting enough to share..
…i wouldn’t even consider comparing the marketing of cycling & major league baseball…not for an instant because there is no comparison, any way you slice it…
…as far as ‘pro team kit’, the only thing i’ll wear (‘ghay’ as it might be) is a winter riding jacket by the 2nd tier squad “aqua & sapone”…
…somebody told me to clean up my act, so i figured a little “water & soap” wouldn’t hurt…
i just wanted to be 69.
69 ain’t squat. Wake me when this mess hits 300.
take your diaper off buddy.
Boys and Gals:
My mountain bike season begins on June 6. I’m racing in a painfully local short-track series where, thanks to age, Crohn’s and a lack of training time or skills, I expect t finish last in my cat at most races. I will be racing women younger and stronger than me. We will ride hard, laugh our heads off when it’s over and treat each other to beers. The glory prizes at series’ end are medals, a couple bottles of fine local microbrew and some schwag. In short, I am knocking my brains out for eight weeks this summer to test myself and have as much fun as is legally possible on a bicycle. And that. Is. It. No drama, no drugs, no nothing.
If you’re in PDX this summer, short-track is every Monday night out at PIR. Come watch the weekend warriors, and be amazed for real.
@elSid – You nailed it. There is an inverse relationship at play. Tyler Hamilton is labeled a “liar” after stating, “I did not dope” Tyler Hamilton is once again labeled a “liar” after stating, I did dope.” He cannot be telling a falsehood in both instances. The two statements are diametrically opposed – for one to be true the other is necessarily false. And, of course, one must be true. Therefore he cannot be a liar in both instances.
He has apparently lied under oath on at least one of the two occasions. But, in his more recent testimony he was offered a limited immunity in regards to his prior inconsistent testimony (perjury, etc.). It stands to reason that he is speaking the truth now. To believe otherwise would require one accept his initial denial of doping under oath is true, and then somehow believe he had only later entered into the realm of falsehood when he subsequently “admitted” to doping under oath – when the second testimony was buttressed with an offer of immunity to clear up the inconsistencies with the former. I have an easier time with the conclusion that he lied initially, and then came clean the second go ’round.
Most people have known for many years, that most of the top in cycling used Drugs. Its plain stupid to think some of the best don’t use drugs when even the medicore ones get busted!
Also, about the innocent untill found guilty, look at Bjarna Riis, former TDF winner, now a team owner, he never got busted but he came clean, all knew it, all did it, you could say he won fair, since all in the peleton did it.
Armstrong did it too, without a doubt, why ? well because all others did it, is Armstrong a bad person ? no he really did great he was a very inspiring athlet and he was a joy to watch.
Should he come clean ? yes he should, if not he will face jail thats for sure.
The only way to get rid of this doping problem, is to give life time bans on severe cases and 5 years on small ones.
Now that we talk about UCI being dirty, just look at the contador case and you know, nobody wants public discredibility to the sport, not even UCI.
A few thoughts (even though we are beating a dying horse)
1) I have ridden with Tyler Hamilton for his Tyler Hamilton Foundation ride in the San Francisco bay Area and he seemed like a great guy. He would drift to the back (where I was on my mtn bike) and help stop traffic for the riders, would chat with us and made us feel good. I also saw him speak during the same weekend and he spent as much time chatting with his fans as they wanted. He seemed very down to earth and very friendly. One thing that struck me was when he said he could tell the difference between a half empty water bottle and a full bottle on the climbs. If 8 ounces of water make that much difference, imagine what a little dope would do. He also tossed his Olympic medal into the audience for people to check out.
2) He does blink a lot in the interview… was he being deceitful or just bummed? I don’t know…
3) Time will tell. @ 1DBLJ Says: That was just the first few drops…the hurricane isn’t far away. I think more details will emerge soon… well said!
4) Lance is not Jesus! He was fun to watch though…
5) Fuck the pro peleton! I was doing the Sea Otter mtn bike race, begineer Clydesdale of course, and as we road by some spectators they said: “Clydesdales! The heart and soul of mtn biking!” I’m not so sure about that, but at least the dope we use is not performance enhancing! My buddy Mike who is 59 and did the six foot drop in Whistler means more to me than the pro roadies…
I was initially bummed when I found Tyler got popped for PEDs.
After enough years have passed, I now realize that my favorite TDF moments were courtesy of Mr. Broken Collarbone. He gave his all to maintain a 4th place finish. I have to consult a cheat sheet to remember the names of the guys on the podium that year. (Pharm, The German, and someone else).
Is anyone interested in starting a series without biological passports and other nonsense? Amgen, are you ready to sponsor it?
I forgot to include the correct term: Tyler Hamilton is a Baller.
I don’t “believe” anyone, but would like to see him race again.
TH made anyone who had broken a collarbone and took a couple of weeks off to recoup look like a pussy.
BGW I mean selling team kits isnt profitable becasue so.
not that you are or do.
Wearing anything Cippo is quite manly IMHO
beth wants us to change the subject to what her?
I go away for a few years and and drop in and bam look at the big brain on jonny word
form an argument please
all did dope therefore so what isnt the point here
the point here is that we have an organization potentially defrauding the us government and a charity that some could argue is nothing but a front
which is quite b it different than one dude buying juice on the side to get over a mountain or get signed to the A squad
@ #79: Not wanting to change the subject, just offering a different perspective on bike racing and new (or old) ways to love it again.
Go race your bike, fueled by nothing more than food and water and a decent night’s sleep. Pedal like mad and breathe hard. Celebrate with friends and cheer each other on.
More of that and less of this navel-gazing could breathe some new life — and genuine relevance — back into racing.
@81-“…a decent night’s sleep…”? I’d have better luck scoring EPO.
Thought I’d share all this for all you LA disciples who still believe.
This comes from @velocentric on Tweeter
“As we’re seeing the early stages of Livestrong being rolled out to support Lance doping let’s look at a key figure from 2009, shall we?
In 2009 Livestrong spent $15,377,233 on legal fees & salaries vs $11,775,916 paid out to grants & programs.
We’ll discuss where a lot of those legal fees went later on….An obvious question would be how a charity could accrue legal expenses of $9,418,842 in a year…
In 2009 Livestrong spent a total of $4,195,187 on advertising. Only $401,709 of this was to promote fundraising activities.
We’ll look at the advertising arrangement between Livestrong & Demand Media (who operate the for-profit Livestrong.com) later.
In 2009 Livestrong spent $1,922,995 on travel expenses. Of this just $187,680 was related to fundraising.
We’ll take a look at where the remainder of the travel expenses went in detail later along with the ties between Livestrong, Lance & Mellow Johnny’s aviation.
In 2009 Livestrong Board members promised to donate a total of $5,470,971 (donations are tax deductible) but managed to donate just $908,091
A figure worthy of special note is the $4,507,130 increase in legal fees (from $4,911,712 to $9,418,842) between 2008/09.
Why did Charity legal expenses nearly double in the year Lance Armstrong returned to Cycling?
the figures I just shared are all contained in the audited accounts. Figures I’ll share soon were slightly harder to get.
I’ve got all the 990 forms, the section marked ‘other’ is undisclosed ‘program’ expenses which I’m reliably told will also include…
(among other things) further legal costs that are included in functional expenses. I’m waiting for a detailed breakdown. It’s been
requested and as soon as it’s made available I’ll show those details as well. I hope that clears it up.”
The Emporer wears no fucking clothes. Hopefully when Lance goes down, he takes down Stapleton, Knaggs, Weisel and the fucking UCI too so we can start getting some good news up in here….either that or we all get kidnapped and have some new shit happen to us.
…keep us informed, humpty…
…as more info comes in, it’s looking more like a train wreck for ‘headstrong’…
…there are certain aspects to the ‘armstrong legacy’ that i’ve always appreciated but the longer this goes on & the more irrefutable the facts, i’m inclined to think ‘team legal lance’ will implode when faced with the grand jury…their only “defense” towards accusations thus far is character assassination…
…i dunno if that’s an attempt to sway public opinion & even a potential jury but i’d have to wonder just how far impugning so many former colleagues will work as a good legal tactic…i can only imagine they’re posturing because they’re a lot more concerned than they let on…
…i’m also wondering, should armstrong & his cohorts be indicted by the grand jury for fraud or other financial improprieties, are nike & trek still going to be as willing to stand behind him as they’ve been ???…or will he be dropped like the proverbial ‘hot potato’…if not, why not ???…
…nike just released a statement of support suggesting that they stand behind their man & they, like armstrong were definitely against doping in cycling…imagine that…
Little yellow Lovestrong cock rings for sale….
more money spent from the livestrong donations. rad.
@AfricanSingle: Now that’s just plain funny! @ judi: Totally, love the avatar!
@ Humpty. ..woah. and thanks, that’s pretty interesting info.
shit speaks volumes.
oh, and for the blinking of Tyler. ya know, just maybe the dudes got allergies? blinking doesn’t equal lying as far as I know.
oh, and if my LiveWrong band wasn’t cool enough before, I’m diggin’ it even more now.
…personally, i think africansingle is braggin’, ya ???…
…humpty’s info has me wanting to see an actual breakdown of any & all funds accrued & dispensed by the ‘livestrong foundation’ particularly in relationship to how armstrong, family & associates benefit from such funds…
…‘mellow johnny’s aviation’ ???…is that an ‘out of pocket’ expense because the man enjoys his privacy or is it regularly paid for by the foundation & written off because it can be considered ‘livestrong foundation business’ if armstrong, while on vacation, has a conversation with someone about cancer support ???…
…i’ve always given the man the benefit of the doubt because he has offered ‘hope’ to others but i’ve yet to see lance armstrong walk on water…
…it seems that now, the level of denial, along with the character assassinations directed at accusers has ramped up considerably…
…just how twisted is this web ???…
I can’t imagine why anyone with a job, a mortgage, a family to feed and maybe a kid or two in college would give any of this more than passing notice.
I can’t claim ownership…was forwarded this from a friend. Alot of work went into it and it’s pretty fucking funny..IMHO.
If you have watched the Jack Nicholson/Tom Cruise movie as many times as I have, you will enjoy reading this. Just imagine you are in that courtroom:
Novitzky: Johan Bruyneel was clear on what you wanted?
Novitzky: Any chance Johan Bruyneel ignored the order?
Armstrong: (Left eyebrow lifted to indicate astonishment) Ignored the order?
Novitzky: Any chance he… forgot about it?
Armstrong: (Confidently) No.
Novitzky: Any chance Johan Bruyneel left your hotel room and said “Lance is wrong?”
Armstrong: (Flatly) No.
Novitzky: When Johan Bruyneel spoke to the Team, and ordered them not to use PED’s, any chance they ignored him?
Armstrong: You ever raced with a world class cycling team, son?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: Ever competed in a grand tour?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: Ever put your career in another man’s hands; ask him to put his career in yours?
Novitzky: No, sir.
Armstrong: We follow orders, son. We follow orders or the team loses sponsorship dollars, I lose sponsorship dollars. It’s that simple. Are we clear?
Novitzky: Yes, sir.
Armstrong: Are we clear?
Novitzky: Crystal; sir I just have one more question before I call Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis….If you gave an order, that the USPS Cycling Team stay clean, and your orders are always followed, then why would Dr. Ferrari’s services be needed? Why would it be necessary to keep his number on speed dial?
Armstrong: (Reciting) Some of the domestiques were sub-standard riders, he was being contacted beca…
Novitzky: (interrupting) That is NOT what you said! You said your relationship with him was severed because you have a public image to uphold.
Armstrong: That’s correct-
Novitzky: You said “image”, I said ‘public image?’ You said “is there any other kind?”
Armstrong: I know what I said.
Novitzky: I can have the court reporter give back to you-
Armstrong: I know what I said! I don’t need to have it read back to me like I’m some kind of-
Novitzky: Then why the two orders? Lance?
Armstrong: (Awkwardly) Sometimes riders take matters into their own hands…
Novitzky: No, sir. You made it clear just a moment ago that your domestiques never take matters into their own hands; your men follow orders or sponsorship dollars are lost. So Dr. Ferrari shouldn’t have been on any contact lists at all, should he have, Lance?
Armstrong: You snotty little bastard.
Fabiani: Your Honor, I would like to ask for a recess.
Novitzky: I’d like an answer to the question judge.
Judge: The court will wait for an answer.
Novitzky: If Johan Bruyneel gave an order that illegal performance enhancement techniques weren’t to be tolerated, then why did Dr. Ferrari have to be consulted? Lance? Johan Bruyneel ordered the blood transfusions, didn’t he, because that’s what you told Johan Bruyneel to do.
Novitzky: And when it started to look bad…
Judge: [interrupting] That’ll be all councilor.
Novitzky: [finishing] …you told the guys to deny everything!
Fabiani: [interrupting] Your Honor!
Judge: [interrupting] Councilor, I’ll hold you in contempt!
Novitzky: You bribed WADA with inappropriate donations!
Fabiani: [interrupting] Your Honor!
Novitzky: …and you doctored the test from the 2001 Tour de Swisse!
Fabiani: Damn it, Novitzky!
Novitzky: And now I’m asking you!
Judge: Consider yourself in contempt!
Novitzky: Lance Armstrong, did you order the blood transfusions?!
Judge: You don’t have to answer that question!
Armstrong: I’ll answer the question. You want answers?
Novitzky: I think I’m entitled.
Armstrong: You want answers?!
Novitzky: I want the truth!
Armstrong: You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has bicycles, and those bicycles have to be raced by men in lycra. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Frankie Andreu? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Tyler and you curse Floyd. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that PED use, while tragic, wins races. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins Tours! You don’t want the truth, because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that bike! You need me on that bike!! We use phrases like “most tested athlete”, “never tested positive”, “where’s the proof”. We use these phrases as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a public who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very inspiration that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said “Thank you,” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a bicycle, and go win a f**kin’ Tour de France! Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
Novitzky: Did you order the transfusions?
Armstrong: I did the job that—-
Novitzky: Did you order the transfusions?!
Armstrong: You’re goddamn right I did!!
Bailiff: Lance Armstrong, you have the right to remain silent. Any statement you make-
Armstrong: I’m being charged with a crime? Is that what this is? I’m being charged with a crime? This is funny, that’s what this is. This is… [tries to lunge at Novitzky but is stopped by Bailiff’s] I’m gonna rip out your eyes and piss in your dead skull! You f**ked with the wrong cyclist!!
Bailiff: Lance Armstrong! Do you understand your rights as I have just read them to you?
Armstrong: You f**kin’ people. You have no idea how to win a Tour. All you did was weaken the sport today, Novitzky. That’s all you did. You put Europe’s 2nd biggest past-time in danger. Sweet dreams, son.
Novitzky: Don’t call me “son”. I’m a Federal Investigator AND a recreational cyclist. And you’re under arrest, you son of a bitch. The witness is excused.
If you can’t see the difference between a couple of bicycle racers and a Marine rifle company, don’t waste my time.
(as in “drop & give me …”)
@bgw (96)Ya damn right I’m braggin’ ;)
I noticed an interesting thing at our local recycling centre, bins for “Paper” “Plastic” “Glass” and now one for the little yellow rings. It would appear that many are delivered in plain brown packaging, their owners fleeing like rodents on the Titanic.
OK, OK, whip me for the off-topic post.
I’ll chime in, though I’m uninformed and inarticulate. I was out of the country so I didn’t watch the 60 minutes and honestly don’t care enough to watch it on the computer. What strikes me as interesting is that probably 99% of the people in the U.S. don’t know who Tyler Hamilton is and the only thing they know about cycling is Lance and T.D.F. But a national show gives the whole show to Tyler. Is it really that big a story outside of the cycling world?
I love the dynamics and drama of bike racing. I also love a good baseball game. But I realize all pro sports are corrupt and there is no more innocence…if there ever was. The amounts of $ involved are ridiculous. When I see somebody wearing a team jersey [football, baseball, hockey or any other] that costs well over $100 (a lot to me) I can help but think they’re a chump. That said, I’m gonna fill my backpack with beer cans and ride over to the local race today and holler at some dudes and chicks who are much badder than me.
…@africansingle…i remember being told years ago by someone in the ‘hip underground san francisco cycling scene’ (who shall remain nameless lest one of his amigos reads this & wants to laugh at him), that the yellow wrist bands were molded out of a plastic material that was sure to give you cancer & that it was all a part of a big moneymaking scam between livestrong & the medical community…
…so, be careful where you put that thing…
@joetheelectrician, “lighten up, francis”…
Thanks for the read, I appriciate your effort you have put in creating it.