While Snake gets ready to kill it this weekend, I’ve been pondering some thoughts on women’s racing. Since the shitstorm I created this summer, women’s racing has been something I’ve wanted to post about on DC for a long time. Here it goes.
As my first year of road racing comes to an end (can I get a HELLYES!!) I’ve been thinking about future goals, about the cycling community around me, and all of the lessons learned. There have been a lot of tears shed this summer, a lot of hateful comments, emails, and I’ve come to a conclusion. There are a lot of douche bags in my cycling community.
After my horrible experience racing in a crit with men, where I lasted two laps, I made a decision not to support the races that didn’t include a women’s race. Ever.
I just can’t imagine doing this professionally. Check out this post 40 Hands sent me this morning.
The more she listened to the buzz about a new Lance Armstrong-backed bicycle stage race coming to Colorado next summer, the more she hurt. Eventually, Abbott — one of the premier female cyclists in the world — couldn`t take it anymore.
“I actually had to turn it off just because it made me so sad, because I don`t necessarily see it as very likely that they`ll have a women`s race,” Abbott said in an interview with the Camera recently.
Abbott is well aware of the economics and other circumstances that make staging high-level men’s bike races difficult in the United States — much less on the women’s side where sponsorship and public following lag far behind.
“When you have Lance Armstrong on your side, it’s easier,” Abbott said. “But we need Lance Armstrong to say, ‘And we also would like to have a women’s field.'”
You listening Lance??? You have the $$$$! Give the women their own race for fucks sake! Why is it so hard? Will someone please explain to me?
Then there’s this post.
It’s the age-old issue – equal pay for equal work. For bike racing this is a touchy subject as men and women’s prize lists are rarely equal. Not only is the pay rarely equal but the race distances are also significantly shorter……
…….To add fuel to the fire, pre-orders for the 2011 Cyclepassion calendar was announced. Cyclepassion is a calendar which features elite women racers dressed in sexy/provocative clothing. Does this help or hinder the cause for women as being seen as equal or does it just reduce them to objects?
Sex sells. Always has, always will. Money is money, and everybody is pretty much sucking dick for it these days. Including me and you.
So, where can I get a Cyclepassion calendar?
Suck My Left One – Bikini Kill
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0R5BmYtg&feature=related[/youtube]
Have a great weekend.
hey kerry, i just read your latest blog post. you sound like a total bitch. i don’t think i’d like you if i met you.
Kerry is way cool. She’s well spoken, very well educated and probably the smartest person I have even met in women’s pro cycling. She might seem to have a bit of the acid touch, but really she just flat out tells it like it is with a bit of spice, just right. Her stuff is never boring, and I have met and talked with a lot of pro women who were much less interesting.
I heart Kerry
Wow Kerry,
Are you sure you didn’t start racing in the early 1900’s?
Kerry ftw. While the statement, “Women like to cut off their nose to spite their face” need not only apply to women and bike racing, it certainly seems to apply here.
@barry, i doubt she knows what FTW means. yep, kerry and me – we are the exact opposite. better hope we never meet.
Judi,
Why exactly do you hope we never meet? Are you going to beat me up or something? I should warn you, although I am small I am quite fast and if I am on foot or on a bike I can probably get away from you before you even had a chance to throw the first punch.
People wonder why women’s racing is suffering…maybe if people who are new to the sport stopped for a moment to do some research and examine why problems exist and think about how to fix them rather than just firing off inflammatory emails, perhaps then we wouldn’t be here.
If you read what I wrote in my comment above, I simply stated that your method of trying to increase opportunities for women’s racing by sending a rather terse email to a promoter wasn’t going to win you any fans and was not helping our situation.
I also take issue with your implication that because you got dropped, had a ‘horrible experience’ and as a result were left with “zero confidence”, it is somehow the promoter’s fault that this happened and he needs to offer a women’s race so you can feel better about yourself.
Cycling is not a ‘feel good about yourself’ sport. It is not designed to stroke one’s ego. It’s hard. If you can’t hang, train harder. Don’t blame promoters because you don’t have what it takes to stick in a race. What if the promoter did offer a women’s race, and you still got dropped after 2 laps? Would you then be demanding a “slow race” and a “fast race” so you can develop your confidence?
I’ve been dropped and DNFd more races in my life than you have ever entered, and believe me, it is a lot more demoralizing to be dropped in a women’s race than it is in a men’s race. When I get dropped in a men’s race, I don’t get discouraged, because I am not technically training to race against guys. When I don’t get dropped, it’s a bonus for me. When I get dropped in a women’s race, I get the harsh reality check that I need to train harder. Every time I enter a men’s race I do so with the knowledge that I might not hang for very long, and I am OK with that. So from a confidence perspective, I don’t see how getting dropped in a men’s race was such a life changing event for you.
Although I think it is unfortunate that women’s racing has deteriorated, I am not blaming promoters. On the rare occasion that I do find fault with a promoter’s decision to cancel or merge women’s fields, I try to be constructive in my criticism and open up a dialogue with the promoter so as to improve the situation and solve the problem.
I’ve been in the sport for 12 years, and I have devoted a tremendous amount of time to fostering women’s cycling. I’ve lost track of the number of women I have helped over the years who have contacted me about getting started in racing. I take great pleasure in riding with new riders showing them the ropes, offering advice, and helping them improve.
Your attitude and response only further supports my theory that a percentage of women cyclists are their own worst enemy. If you don’t like the way things are, then CHANGE THEM. Do not sit around complaining about how no one is doing it for you, then make empty threats from behind your keyboard. It accomplishes nothing and it does not solve the problem.
The problem seems to be a lack of interest. Promoters need to watch their bottom line, and no one likes to get their ass handed to them. Kerry is right that it’s not a sport for stroking your ego. It’s hard to break into. Promoters need to be gently reminded that there’s a lot of $$$ in women’s athletics (look at Danskin with triathlon). I think that cycling just needs a charismatic woman like Lance is to spark interest. More interest=more women=more races at all levels.
Judy,
Welcome to the world of Bike Racing. The sad truth here is that womens racing is suffering from apathy on both ends of the sport; the promoters _and_ the competitors. Having promoted many races myself and assisting with dozens more, it isn’t a case of “build it and they will come”. They won’t come. They never do. Sure, you’ll get a small hard-core group of maybe a dozen or so local women that do every race they can, but even then, having 30 women show up for a local event is unheard of over the past few years, and it’s far more common to have less than half that. The promoters therefore do what any person trying run an event in the black do, they host categories that they know will pay for the event.
Now, I don’t being one of the cat 3 masses who get a shitty prizelist so they can offer a $5000 payout to the pro/1/2 men. This is their career, they race to eat, they race fast and strong, and I learn a lot from them when they offer a pro/1/2/3 race. I pay the entry fee knowing I have no chance at getting it back, but happy for the chance to race – albeit for a short time – with some of the best domestic racers we have to offer. Hell, as a 48 year old cat3/master, Being able to finish with the leaders in a 30 mph pro/1/2/3 crit is a small victory in itself.
Cat 4 women don’t race to feed themselves, and in most cases they aren’t willing to spend money racing against a small field they know they’ll get dropped from. Local promoters therefore need to make a decision for the best interest of the club, and it usually results in best interests of womens and juniors cycling being secondary. For example, when you have to pay a police officer in 4 hour blocks of time (that’s the way things are in new england), and you have a womens race that has eight pre-entries two days before the event, it becomes an issue of being cost effective. Drop the race no one is coming to, send the cops home after 4 hours, and save the club the cost of 4 hours of police detail (times 3-4 cops, could be as high as $1000).
So, yes, you’re going to see woman’s races go by the wayside, until women start showing up. That means you’re going to have to go to mens 4/5 races. Sorry, that’s just he way it is right now. For a person at your level of the sport, this isn’t a bad thing. In order to get faster, you need to ride with faster riders. In order to race better, you need to race with better racers. Lining up with ten other women who drop you in the first few laps aren’t going to do that. Lining up with 75 men who you can at least draft off of _will_ do that. As your fitness comes along, so will your technical skills. If you have any aspirations at all of just being able to be competitive in a 3/4 womens field, racing with the men on a regular basis is a damn good idea anyways.
All that said, Rick Hoetings comments, attacks, and attempts to defame you are completely inexcusable. If for no other reason, I would boycott his race just because he’s a fucking dick. But, I’ll second the comment “if you quit, he wins”. Keep racing 4/5 mens races. From what I can see in the USAC results, he’s a cat 4 sandbagger anyways, wouldn’t it be ironic if you lined up in front of him and took him out at the start line?
oh snap! a cat fight! BJ, you gotta love this shit. where the fuck is gnomey?
kerry – i hope we never meet because i AVOID bitches like you in this sport. and i only punch if you punch me first.
you are one of those roadies with the attitude that YOU are better than everyone else, ESP those lowly cat 4 women that also compete in TRIATHLON. HOW dare they enter a bike race! and OMG you might have to race with them.
as a female cyclist/racer that’s been around as long as you have, maybe you ought to consider encouraging and mentoring rather than making fun and being a big snotty bitch about it.
Kerry,
By your logic, why do the Men have Cat 4/5 races? Shouldn’t the men just all race together with the Cat 1s and if they get dropped then they’re just not training hard enough? “Train harder” is an easy answer on paper but the fact of the matter is I know Judi and probably everyone else out there is doing everything they can to “train harder” within the context of their life. Their are only so many hours in a day and some of us have families, jobs, and believe it or not, interests and hobbies outside of cycling that make us well balanced and happy people but cut into training time.
Obviously you and I see things differently as I think all sports should be “feel good about yourself” sports, 99% of us aren’t pros and we do this because we enjoy it. If you’re not having fun, why are you racing? It is fun to push yourself and try and reach new levels of fitness and racing goals. And yes, we’re all going to get dropped along the way. But, one would expect to be able to compete against their peers.
The fact of the matter is, you and Judi both want the same thing…to better the sport of cycling for women. I personally think and know from experience that many new women trying to get into racing elect not to do certain races because they see “Women 1,2,3,4” and know they’ll be lumped in with people like yourself who have more experience. Promoters could ease some of this intimidation factor by offering a “Women 1,2” and “Women 3,4” race. Bearing in mind the promoter does have to make money (or else there wont be any races for anyone) then it’s the job women to get out there and recruit other women and show up and race.
Pay attention, judy. Kerry wrote “I’ve lost track of the number of women I have helped over the years who have contacted me about getting started in racing. I take great pleasure in riding with new riders showing them the ropes, offering advice, and helping them improve.”
I’ve known her personally for all those 12 years she’s been involved in racing. Yes, she mentors, encourages, and supports women who are willing to learn and not whine about not being treated like a princess. She worked exceptionally hard at becoming a cat 2, and she’s always been more than willing to impart that knowledge and experience on those willing to listen. When she got her cat 3 upgrade, she knew she would have to learn crit skills, so she went on trining rides with a few male riders (including me), watched, and learned. It’s advice you should take as well.
You should know by now in your life (especially _your_ life) that no one is going to give you anything. You need to earn it.
FWIW – Men triathletes are as much an anathema in mens road racing as women, if not more. The reason is that they are strong enough to keep up, but they lack pack high-speed-cornering skills. Crashes ensue. I hardly consider my self a raodie snob, but lining up in a open masters race with a guy who just took his aero bars off his TT bike gives me the chills.
@ ryan: The thing is that there are so many sandbaggers in men’s 5 and masters that anyone who’s not hiring a coach and logging 20+ hours per week on the bike is not “training hard enough” to sit in. Road racing is simply not geared towards those of us who have other things in life to take seriously. Personally, I’m comfortable with the fact that cycling is the one thing in my life that I don’t take seriously. I show up at the occasional club time trial, where I can at least get my ass kicked in peace, but refuse to waste money on a USAC license or any race with an entry fee. I don’t blame the promoters either. It’s just the nature of the sport that it’s not conducive to less than total commitment.
Well, ryan, if you’re going to make such ridiculous hypotheticals, you shoule at least learn from history. The reason promoters offer cat 4/5 races is that they fill the fields. They make money. If cat 4/5 racers didn’t show up, they wouldn’t have the cat 4/5 fields and you _would_ occasionally see a combined mens open field.
For that fact, the answer to your question is that they always used to have pro/1/2/3 races before there were ever cat 4 races. It used to be that you got your initial license as a cat 3. Then Greg Lemond won the TdF. cycling experienced such a boom that they had to create a new separate entry-level field, and they rarely combined them. Even separate cat 3 fields were rare ‘back in the day’. This prcess repeated itself with the Armstrong phenomenon, so now we have cat 5’s. Next up, separate cat 5 over and under 35 categories. Wanna know why they do that?
Demand.
They get enough riders that will make hosting these separate fields worthwhile. when demand for them drops they’ll be combined. When demand for separate cat 4 over 35 fields increases, they separate them out too. Right now, masters fields are pro/1/2/3/4.
It’s pretty funny hearing you attempt to lecture Kerry on responsibilities and balancing work life. She knows about that as well as you do, I suspect. But to respond to your ‘not having enough time to train’ comment, that’s why we have different categories – so those of us that can’t dedicate 4 hours aweek on the bike can enter a race and ‘feel good about ourselves’.
Even still, If you don’t train on some level, you get dropped, and no one is going to give you a fucking medal for trying, so no ‘feel good award’ for getting beaten.
Judi,
I took a hiatus from bike racing in 2008 to focus on triathlon. My opinion of triathletes and their bike handling stems from observation of them in the field as well as conversations with them. I have spoken with many women triathletes who express a desire to try bike racing, but make statements along the lines of “I am afraid to ride in a pack” or “I am afraid to ride downhills” or “I am afraid to ride my bike outside.” Forgive me if I do not want to have to race with them. Give them opportunities to race with other beginner women who are equally lacking in skills and everyone will learn together and improve.
You wouldn’t know this, but I recently completed a research study as part of my graduate degree that was specifically on time trial/triathlon bike fit/positioning for WOMEN TRIATHLETES AND CYCLISTS. Want to know why I chose that topic? Because I noticed in my time racing triathlons that a lot of the women had positions on their bike that could be improved upon, but no one was exactly sure how to improve it. I read 47 different research studies on triathlon/aero bike position research and in that entire body of research composed of close to 1000 different subjects, there were only 15 women who were ever studied. Exercise science ignores female athletes. As a researcher in the field, I chose to be a pioneer and try to give something back.
I am also one of only a few people to ever conduct extensive research on female cyclists and triathletes in an effort to improve our knowledge of female physiology and cycling performance, so that we can help women cyclists and triathletes improve their athletic performance.
I did this because I saw an area in need of improvement. I did not do this because I am an elitist roadie snob/snottie bitch/whatever-other-insults-you want-to-fling-at-me. If I were, I would not have conducted this research, because it is only going to benefit people like you, not me.
@Ryan – I never stated women should all be lumped together. I stated that women should not send nasty emails to promoters if they do not offer a women’s field, and I stated that women should race with men if they want to improve and learn how to race. Believe me – I am NOT supporting lumping all women together. I would love to see the return of Cat 4 and Cat 1-2-3 races for women. Cat 3/4 and cat 1/2 does not work because there are not enough 1/2 women to fill a local field. There are enough 1-2-3 to get at least 30 people, and offering Cat 4 only races will entice more beginner women into showing up.
I think all of the dialogue is good — passion from the newbies, insight from the veterans, logistical and financial information from promoters — its all valuable information, even if we don’t agree with each other’s theories on how to move the sport forward for female competitors. Ladies, we need to realize that we are all on the same side. Different backgrounds, different perspectives, different opinions… But we all want the same thing. Let’s listen to each other and do our best to support one another. There has to be some common ground here, don’t you think?
i think the common ground might be …a bicycle. ride and smile ladies. ride and smile.
I sorry folks, but there is a great gulf in this dialogue. Kerry has been very forthcoming and obviously is extremely knowledgeable, but from reading Judi’s posts, I am wondering if she ever went to High School. Perhaps Kerry could provide some names of some books Judi could read first to get up to speed, and then come back and talk to Kerry. As for the threats, I’ll stand up for Kerry if any punches are thrown.
I like ponies.
1) entry fees fuel prize purses. Fewer women = smaller purses. The NCAA tried to “address” this “disparity” with Title IX and I don’t think it’s done anything good, while being explicitly sexist.
2) In my experience, the AVERAGE female cyclist is less aggressive and less willing to suffer than the AVERAGE male cyclist. Shorter races, smaller fields.
Maybe if I put on a wig, I could enter a women’s CAT4/5. I might even be able to hang and that would be fun. Ride fast, ladies. Rubber side down.
I prefer those miniature ponies. They make me feel big when I need to feel big.
I’m uncertain that the topic of this post is still on point, but one day long ago, I had very similar concern about the state of competition in AZ. It was not about women though, but only my state of affairs which are manly as hell.
Upon discussion of those inadequacies with my Pops – a wise motherfucker all to hell – he said something that stuck. It went like this:
“if you’re not prepared to get in there and work for the change you want to see happen, then shut the fuck up and get me another beer.”
Coincidentally, Gandhi stole that quip from my dad. Gandhi is a motherfucker too.
Sarah – Thank you for pointing out the importance of formal education in qualifying one for expressing their thoughts and opinions regarding the sport of cycling. Your elitist stance is quite enlightening in terms of the overall direction of cycling, ensuring that opinions and participation are restricted to only those with the opportunity to pursue the highest quality of post-secondary education.
My family immigrated to the US and while I was able to go to university (I hold three degrees), some of my family members grew up in refugee camps and never finished any formal schooling beyond the eighth grade. Would you care to make fun of them, too? Are they not allowed to have opinions or ideas on their experiences or things they are involved with because they have no formal education? I’d better let them know right away.
I am now going to get an IQ test and credit check before I find out that I, too, am underqualified for posting opinions on experiences in the sport of cycling on Drunk Cyclist. Thanks!
Mikey, while not perfect by any means, I think Title IX has done some good for women’s sports at the collegiate level. It has increased opportunity for athletes and broadened the number of sports that get attention… But then I’m weird, and think that football should share the money they bring in and think that it is bullshit that coaches get paid more than the Dean’s at ACADEMIC institutions. Great football programs do not create great academic institutions. The are about ego and advertising, and are often a distraction to academics.
Can we get away from the talk about beating each-other up? It’s kinda ridiculous. High school bullshit.
I go for zebras. Cooler mohawks.
Low Brow,
Road racing at the pro level is mostly filled with College and University women who either have degrees or are working in high profile jobs. However, it’s embarrassing to make a fool out of yourself in a public forum when you are outmatched. I say that because Judi pursues the discussion more like a fight then a discussion. If it was just a progressive discussion then more then likely there would be no chest thumping.
hahaha, hornet’s nest, eh? Funny how people are so full of bile but none of these people will do a damn thing in the real world to make anything happen. That Kerry woman is too busy criticizing people’s experience and/or grammar to actually get anything done. Which is ok, too, since people who cut down other people who seek to support the SAME goal differently than they do are at best small-minded.
As a person who’s put in the time, hours, and $ trying to make stuff happen, I can tell you, there aren’t enough women to get the job done. We need to get other promoters already doing the work on board, since for them it’s far FAR easier to just incorporate women’s racing. How to get them to do that is a big question, but I’d advocate for both the carrot and the stick.
“Race”? Who cares what person got where first? And on a BICYCLE yet? How quaint. Just sayin’…
At this point in my life I’m right there with you joe. I’m just glad I am still able to ride (as in still have both of my legs, even if one is filled with titanium) even if my life (graduate school) doesn’t let me ride very often right now. Nothing like almost dying to teach you that racing’s for people with talent…
“Mikey, while not perfect by any means, I think Title IX has done some good for women’s sports at the collegiate level.”
el jefe— title IX arguably has helped WOMEN’S sports, but I think its value to collegiate sports on the whole is dubious. Pursuing explicitly sexist policy because the ends justify the means is a slippery slope. What about Asian sports? Homosexual sports? I reckon both are systemically under-funded. Where do you draw the line, and who said life was “fair” anyhow?
“I’m weird, and think that football should share the money they bring in and think that it is bullshit that coaches get paid more than the Dean’s at ACADEMIC institutions. Great football programs do not create great academic institutions.”
Oh absolutely, I agree at least 100%. To me, it’s embarrassing that the University of Washington’s largest single program is… men’s football. Yawn. Football has NOTHING to do with higher education— except maybe passing a few autumn afternoons with the lads.
Julie,
I find it sad and disturbing that you think I am too busy correcting people’s grammar to get anything done. Forgive me and my tendency to correct grammar but as a teacher it is part of my job. It’s hard for me to convince 9th graders that proper spelling and grammar is important if I do not set a good example in other aspects of my life.
I don’t believe we have ever met, Julie, but for you to insist that I am incapable of ‘getting anything done’ in regards to helping to improve women’s cycling just shows your own ignorance.
I guess in your world, my research on female cyclists doesn’t amount to anything – ok, fine. I respect that not everyone cares about research. But you do not know how many women I have helped over the years, you do not know that in 2006 I actually tried to revive the racing scene here in New England but was unable to make any major impact on the status quo (probably because I was too busy working full time correcting people’s grammar). You probably don’t know that I mentor beginner women cyclists, have coached beginner cyclists, and respond to weekly emails from women from all over the world asking for advice ranging from bike fit questions to how to train for races. I do not do any of these things for profit, I do them because I like helping new women get involved in cycling. When I was sponsored by Terry Precision I let women whom I had never met borrow my bikes for test riding so that they could make an informed decision on whether or not to buy one, because bike shops never stocked our bikes.
If you think that I am not “getting it done”, then you really don’t know anything about me or my investment in the sport.
Sarah – You bring up another important point about the sport. The elitism in the sport of cycling. The attitudes which promote the air of priviledge — maintaining the sport as one reserved for the wealthy, the white, the upper middle class, the corporate, the educated, as well as the male. This discussion was initially revolving around issues of gender inequality, yet you have pointed out another level of inequality and lack of diversity in the sport of cycling — that revolving around socioecomic status.
“Road racing at the pro level is mostly filled with College and University women who either have degrees or are working in high profile jobs,” Lovely. Lets remind those poor, uneducated fools who aspire to enjoy the sport of cycling that they should pack it up and go back to their less than suburban homes. How dare they offend us with their cheap bikes and strong opinions! Get back down where you belong, peons!
You’re right — it is usually the privedged, educated (dare I say, white) females that are the first to be able to participate — to taste the first slight flavor of equality. The poor, lower income masses are typically at the end of the equality movement, whether it is in sports or any other opportunity. Does this mean they have no say in the process? You’re right, they are just dummies who should probably shut up and let others with more proper backgrounds do their talking for them. I don’t know why I am even opening my mouth, I recieved two of my degrees from a STATE UNIVERSITY! I know, I’m ashamed to even challenge the greatness of those who went to better universities.
I invite you to volunteer at an inner city bike co-op so you can share your enlightened take on cycling with young at-risk youth and low income individuals — please let them know that there is no place for them in the racing or cycling community, as they do not have the education or finances to join your elite world!
Ahhh, classism is not dead! It is alive and well and flourishing in the cycling community, right alongside sexism.
Cheers!
LowBrow,
That’s funny! Pretty good rant. I’m not saying it’s really funny, but a good laugh feels good in this thread so far. Yes, how do we get 10k bikes to kids in families who can’t even put food on the table? We can’t and shouldn’t try either. It’s just not practical in this regard. Look, look at it in this perspective? It’s much cheaper for 20 guys to play hoop on the high school court with a $20 dollar used basketball where the only gear they have to bring with them is a pair of tennis shoes. However, some of those guys might grow up to earn millions in the NBA, as where trying to aspire to pro cycling would be a huge waste of their time? Different strokes for different folks.
You need to keep cycling in perspective. Yes, it’s an expensive sport and a dangerous one. If you don’t have good health insurance and a nice bank account to pay for your gear, then perhaps you shouldn’t fool with it unless it’s a rags to riches story. Joe Blow, one in a million like Lance Armstrong. It’s just sport and entertainment, not a program funded by the government to feed the homeless or something. Sure sports and those who follow sports to some degree are hobbies not afforded to the masses, nor should they be. If you want a hobby, be prepared to pay for it. I have always paid for mine.
The reason it’s mostly white though is become of its roots, not a discrimination thing. True, lack of wealth does discriminate but that applies to much more then sports. But right, there are class wars of various degrees all over the place. This is a whole nother discussion which could fill several threads. Thanks for the laugh, and the serious part too.
Mr. LowBrow— you seem to confuse elitism for racism and classism. It’s a common mistake these days.
OF COURSE bicycle racing is elitist— the fastest guy wins. Duh.
If ambitious amateur cyclists are mostly wealthy (and white), that’s dictated almost totally by the cost of equipment and training. Poor folks don’t buy Colnagos with carbon tubular wheel sets. Does anyone doubt that a more “diverse” pool of competitors would produce a more “diverse” set of elite participants? I don’t think so.
Back to Ms. Kerry’s question: what are you— and of us— doing about it?
Sarah,
Maybe you should tell Rahsaan Bahati that he’s wasting time and the network exec’s money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53xa5DHwvG4
Your racist opinion is doing absolutely nothing for the sport.
Mr. Ryan— you seem to confuse elitism for racism and classism. It’s a common mistake these days.
OF COURSE bicycle racing is elitist— the fastest guy wins. Duh.
That most of these elite participants are white is NOT racist.
Wow,
This thread has veered hard into personal attacks.
Grow up.
If you want competition, ride in the CAT you can hang with. If you can’t hang, ride more, ride harder.
Who gives a rat’s ass what you have between your legs. If you can dominate the men’s Cat 3 field, but you’re the only lady in the area, either crush the boys and take the prizes (always fun, so I hear) or ask the officials if you can race the 1-2’s and maybe get blown out like every other cat 3 who upgrades.
If you can stick with the 1-2’s, awesome. If not, who cares.
You’re there to race, to hurt and hopefully, make the other people hurt more.
If you get blown out by the Cat 4’s, welcome to the world.
Sarah – “How do we get 10k bikes to kids in familes who can’t even put food on the table? We can’t and shouldn’t try”????? WOW. I’m… speechless. The implications of this argument go deep into territory of self entitlement that I could spend pages delving into, but I’ll try to keep it short. No one is advocating for giving away 10k bikes. And if they are I’d like to be first in line to get one — I currently race on an entry level $1,500 bike that took me a year to save for.
By “different strokes for different folks” I would assume the translation breaks down to “If you’re not rich enough to participate, gee that’s a real bummer. Sorry you are poor.” And yes, we should be looking at diversifying and introducing more to the sport in order to promote the health, growth, and sustainability of the sport on a larger scale. Broadening the appeal, and hence paricipation is vital to move the sport forward in the US, and I’m assuming that’s what everyone involved in this dialogue wants.
By diversification, I mean across gender, race, and socioeconomic lines. Arguing for one form of inequality by saying “that’s just the way it is” is simply narrowminded and does nothing for the sport. Arguing that the inequality is palatable because it is “just a sport” is dangerous territory as this can trickle back to the original argument for the equality of female athletes in the sport. Do we really want to argue in terms of these double standards?
And the other brilliant comment re. “…hobbies not afforded to the masses nor should they be.” Are you serious? Please tell me you are kidding. To make it extra funny, you could follow up with “Let them eat cake!”
I work for a nonprofit that pays me less than 35k a year. I love my job. I proudly race on my entry level race bike which took me a year to save up for. I also donate as much money as possible to my local bike co-op because too many people think just like you… that it doesn’t really matter if poor kids get bikes or not, its their lot in life – too bad, they just have to miss out… I strongly disagree. Give more people the opportunity to experience the freedom, the rush of cycling and/or racing and you can change lives (this is the part where the inspirational music starts). I am thrilled everytime I see Jrs lining up at a race. I am excited when I find out about women taking up the sport for the first time. The more we can get on board, regardless of gender, race, or financial background, the better. Unless, that is, you are trying to keep those pesky poor people, women, minorities and others like them out of the sport.
Back to your original argument: that Judi did not appear to have any formal education and hence was outgunned in her arguments and ideas originally posted on this fine academic journal known as Drunk Cyclist. Despite this initial attack on her intellectual credibility, you have proven, beyond a doubt, that your powers of debate are weak, your understanding of issues of inequality (in cycling, and likely in any other arena) limited at best, and your view of the world as sheltered as it is uninformed (I won’t go into detail on the fallacies of your attempt at supporting your opinions, as I don’t want to go over your head too much or bore these readers). Hence, your original assertion seems fairly shaky in terms of your own credibility in terms of intellectual prowess.
Now kindly go fuck your middle class white suburban self.
Go Judi.
Nice flame troll bait you naive pretentious pompous ass.
I like ponies.
PONIES!
I like Puppies, and french fries. ummmmmm for different reasons.
Action
Not
Reaction
It appears that Judi cannot be currently be guided, either sarcastically or gently from the true sages of her adopted sport
I suspect her past life is still very much her life today and it interferes with all she encounters
When all is let go and Judi is able to live in the present, she is certain to blossom
P2P I would actually have hope in, guidance via the Internets – unlikely but… Judi take a look at the formation of the LPGA, that may inspire you
KK thanks for your input, well done
And ladies, as this posting may have you scratching your head
It ain’t that bad out there, leave your guns at home
Hey, whether or not you like her style (and yes, she often comes out with her fists swinging) Judi started a great dialogue and a lot of interesting perspectives came out on her blog, and that’s what a blog is for. Sparking dialogue, debate, and occasionally providing a forum for funny/naked photos.
And as for my pompous assness, Sarah, you made a flip remark at Judi regarding whether or not she finished high school. You tried to make her feel small and ignorant based on her presumed level of education, and insinuated that her thoughts and opinions regarding issues related to womens’ cycling were less valid than, say, someone with a higher level of education. Sorry, but I call bullshit. In the land of the overeducated, we call that type of logical fallacy ad hominem. Perhaps I can, as you recommended earlier to Judi, loan you some books on the topic.
Cheers!
I agree it would be great to have a women’s field in every bike race, and it would be even better to have a separate Women’s 1/2/3 and Women’s 4. But what would be be even better is to have women show up to these races. I’ve been at races this summer in which the promoters have shown their support for women’s racing by offering one (or multiple) fields with large cash prizes, and there have been less than 10 women at the start line. Its slightly embarrassing.
I’m not sure what all the women racers are doing on the weekends. My guess is that its a lot easier for people to talk about being a “bike racer,” and to obsess about what team to join, bike gear and new uniforms. Its a lot harder to train and show up for races, especially after a long week at work, or when our legs are sore and we know that we might get shelled during the race.
So, yeah, it is a huge bummer when a promoter doesn’t offer a women’s race. But I also realize its not because they don’t support women’s race. It works both ways, and we need to show our support for their races by attending them — regardless of whether there is currently a women’s field. Even better, we should go out of our way to say “thank you” after the race to the promoters, officials and volunteers. If the promoters know that women are attending the races, they will eventually include a women’s race. I figure that in the meantime, if there isn’t a women’s field, its a great opportunity to ride with the men (and if possible, to do a masters race because they are fantastic bike handlers).
In the defense of the training series (but not the guy who organizes it, because he sounds like a jerk), I can’t remember the last training series that actually offered a women’s race. The key is that these are “training races,” and the goal is to challenge ourselves to get better. It does suck and may seem like a waste of time/money when we get shelled early on in the race. I’ve been in training races where I didn’t make it through the first corner (never mind an entire lap). I figure that if I get dropped, I get dropped, and I just try to make the best of it. PLUS the thrill of victory of being able to staying in the race with the boys is huge. I don’t think I stopped smiling for a week after the first time I stayed in with the men’s “A” group at a training race.
We all need to keep bike racing in perspective. Its a hobby, and the goal is to have fun. I figure that if anybody is paying attention to my results and judging me because I had a crappy race, they need to get a life.
Seriously.
“I’m sorry folks, but there is a great gulf in this dialogue. Kerry has been very forthcoming and obviously is extremely knowledgeable, but from reading Judi’s posts, I am wondering if she ever went to High School. Perhaps Kerry could provide some names of some books Judi could read first to get up to speed, and then come back and talk to Kerry.”
First Judi has to put up with douchebag Rick Hoeting and now she has to put up with this patronizing shit. People like this make me want to shoot myself. You can disagree with Judi’s tone or approach or method or whatever, but why not just come out and say so?
(Oh and P.S. Low Brow, that would be “lend” some books on the topic.) There, I beatcha to it, schoolmarm.
message for any who care to heed.
Less is more.
(kinda like ponies)
Low Brow,
You are the one who played the race card in your lengthy diatribe, and you last remark shows just how racist you really are, but three degrees from where?, mail in certificate scammers? Your thin skin just reminds me of another Huckster looking for a beef, but if you are out of a job, come over and paint my kitchen.
I agree with others, that Judi frittered away Kerry’s goodwill. So be it, I am out of here too. The rest of these wankers can argue between themselves.
Hey E, wanna ride some ponies with me?
I do agree that more women need to come out to races (I’ve doine two in the past two weeks, and volunteered at another yesterday). But I also know (from starting and running a womens sports league, hosting womens’ hockey tournaments, and being a cyclist) tha engaging women in a male-dominated sport can be tough, for many reasons. If they don’t see their peers at races, its tough to make them feel comfortable, supported, etc. (especially those that start later in life and didn’t have the parents supporting them, etx.)
Does this mean that all the responsibility rests on the shoulders of promoters? No. It also requires efforts on our part (yes Mikey, its Miss Low Brow, not Mr.) This means encouraging our female friends to train more, race more. To not quit, even when its discouraging and we came in last place, even when people like Rick Hoeting tell us we suck, even when you’re dragging your ass behind a bunch of guys on your team group ride wondering if its worth it…
And Ack – my team has hideous kits. They do not go with my eyes at all. But I still wore mine on Saturday after working a race for five hours and again for 4 hours on my bike in the heat afterward. I would have gone out to obsess over gear on Sunday, but again, trained for another three hours and was just too tired. Didn’t even leave me any time to get my nails done in matching team colors. What’s a girl to do?
Tee hee! Aww Sarah… what is this about painting your kitchen? I already have a career I love. As mentioned before. But if you would like, we can discuss the difference between “playing the race card” and discussing inequality and the promotion of diversity and opportunities in cycling. I don’t know anything about playing cards. And as for my education… Like I said, I gawt me my bachhhelurs degrees at uh state cawledge. Nawt a privut skool. And my gradewate werk was dun at a lowly suthurn skool. Hence my opinions must not mattur. Rait? Mee and Joodi are just some gurls who like to ride bickes. My mom and dad are immmugrints, maybe yood like to offer them a job as maids in yer howse too? Ah bet they’d be real appreciatuve. Yoo are uh kind wom-an. I wud like to ride Ponees with you sumtime.
Cheers!
Low Brow – Just to be clear, my comment about uniforms was based on the frustration that there are lots of people (both men and women) who love to tell everybody that they are “bike racers” and to ride around in their team kits, but then they only show up to a handful of races. These are the same people who frequently obsess about buying bike gear for racing, but when asked whether they are going to an upcoming race, there is always an excuse (haven’t had enough time to train, worked too much over the week, need to clean house, blah, blah, blah). When I’m at the start line with only a few other women, it makes me wonder what all the other “bike racers” are doing.