While Snake gets ready to kill it this weekend, I’ve been pondering some thoughts on women’s racing. Since the shitstorm I created this summer, women’s racing has been something I’ve wanted to post about on DC for a long time. Here it goes.
As my first year of road racing comes to an end (can I get a HELLYES!!) I’ve been thinking about future goals, about the cycling community around me, and all of the lessons learned. There have been a lot of tears shed this summer, a lot of hateful comments, emails, and I’ve come to a conclusion. There are a lot of douche bags in my cycling community.
After my horrible experience racing in a crit with men, where I lasted two laps, I made a decision not to support the races that didn’t include a women’s race. Ever.
I just can’t imagine doing this professionally. Check out this post 40 Hands sent me this morning.
The more she listened to the buzz about a new Lance Armstrong-backed bicycle stage race coming to Colorado next summer, the more she hurt. Eventually, Abbott — one of the premier female cyclists in the world — couldn`t take it anymore.
“I actually had to turn it off just because it made me so sad, because I don`t necessarily see it as very likely that they`ll have a women`s race,” Abbott said in an interview with the Camera recently.
Abbott is well aware of the economics and other circumstances that make staging high-level men’s bike races difficult in the United States — much less on the women’s side where sponsorship and public following lag far behind.
“When you have Lance Armstrong on your side, it’s easier,” Abbott said. “But we need Lance Armstrong to say, ‘And we also would like to have a women’s field.'”
You listening Lance??? You have the $$$$! Give the women their own race for fucks sake! Why is it so hard? Will someone please explain to me?
Then there’s this post.
It’s the age-old issue – equal pay for equal work. For bike racing this is a touchy subject as men and women’s prize lists are rarely equal. Not only is the pay rarely equal but the race distances are also significantly shorter……
…….To add fuel to the fire, pre-orders for the 2011 Cyclepassion calendar was announced. Cyclepassion is a calendar which features elite women racers dressed in sexy/provocative clothing. Does this help or hinder the cause for women as being seen as equal or does it just reduce them to objects?
Sex sells. Always has, always will. Money is money, and everybody is pretty much sucking dick for it these days. Including me and you.
So, where can I get a Cyclepassion calendar?
Suck My Left One – Bikini Kill
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0R5BmYtg&feature=related[/youtube]
Have a great weekend.
Keep fighting the good fight. And remember. I got your back.
CZ
PS – I would gladly pay for a calendar of half-dressed hot male cyclists to put on my wall. Just sayin’.
Judi,
Great post – opened my eyes to the injustice. We (the cycling community) could do better.
Great post Judi! I think that the points made here are valid, to say the least. As someone with some a-hem…historical perspective…I would like to add some positive spin about the women’s racing scene. Back when I started racing, when wheels were wooden and square…women’s fields were NEVER separated out into categories, just “Women”. The fields rarely saw more than 10-15 racers, except in the NRC style races. Over the years, there have been a few very proactive people who have been VERY dedicated to growing the sport. They fostered Cat 4 series in the different regions (specifically the southeast and midatlantic that I am familiar with), and then a cat 3 series in the midatlantic that did the same. These series were instrumental in pulling in novice women to the sport, and helping them advance within the sport. Our field sizes began to grow throughout the 90s and early 00’s.
Cyclocross is another example of HUGE growth in the sport with regard to women (but also an example of the disparate payouts in prize lists). When I started racing cyclocross in 2001 women’s fields were about 5-10 deep in local races. There are some local races that are fielding a Women’s Cat 1,2 Women’s Cat 3,4 and Women’s Master’s 45+ races this year. That is some exponential growth since 2001.
So as one of the waning veterans of the sport, I see things from a different perspective from some of the “up and comers” like you. Unfortunately for me, the deeper fields just means more fresh blood to rip my legs off, makes me feel older ever year!
major beth! XO! thanks for your thoughts, i love the positivity you threw in for me. with that, i DO want to shout out to mitch graham at bio wheels who encourages BIG purses prizes for the women (promoter of the madeira centennial crit and the cinti uci cx festival (katie compton took home 10k last year).
Nice, Judi. Looks like you learned the same things I did in your first year of road racing. There are some great people, but there are a lot of shitheads to weeds through to get to them.
Bikini Kill FTW!
Strong work, don’t ever stop racing because of the big guys. The more they have to “deal” with you, the more respect they’ll have to give.
I’ve never raced very much road, a couple tri’s here and there, but I have noticed a large divide between road racing and mountain. (i.e. the roadie v. mountain thing) I’ve never been to a mountain race without a women’s category, if not multiple. And some of them are willing to create a category for women’s duos, co-ed, whoever you bring along. I don’t want to says it’s due to a more laid back atmosphere, since there’s some hardcore mtn folks out there. But that community as a whole is much more of that, a community.
ride smooth
the OVCX series has a women’s 1/2/3, an open 3/4 and a masters 35+ women 3/4. it CAN be done. just sayin’. thanks so much.
Judi,
Raced cross vs. Alison Dunlap and Katie Compton each. They both made me blow snot bubbles. there is no doubt that womens racing gets shit for promoting and it is not right.
i have promoted a few MTB races and I remember getting into it once with the Pro Womens field b/c they only had 5 in the race and the Men had 32. I caught a lot of shit for it, but I could not pay as much b/c of the field size. I tried to make up for it with no cash prizes but that was like pouring kerosene on the fire.
having said that, those issues would not be a problem is little girls out there knew that it could be a dream to be a Pro Cyclist….it is usually something the fall into or have family that did it. That falls to USA cycling which if you noticed in the pictures of the Colorado stage race announcement, Steve Johnson was front and center with Pharmstrong….
I am happy that there is another stage race in CO, but sad at the way it came about….money talks. Unfortunately until USA cycling gets behind it, the sponsors won’t either.
Mara kicks ass. She’s faster than all of us. I’ve seen it fist hand; she dropped me hard. Honestly, I think she could do middle to bottom of the pack GC result in the Men’s new Coors (err Michelob Ultra) Classic. She’s that tough uphill.
Holy shit, I just clicked on your “shitstorm” link. I had no idea. That Rick Hoeting fellow is an A-Grade Douchebag, I mean a douchebag of the very highest order.
If it isn’t fun, don’t do it. Good luck.
Dear Rick Hoeting,
Surprising that you ride for Queen City Wheels?
A bit inappropriate for a Chauvinist, don’t you think?
I didn’t even know you existed before I read this article, but
being the curious person I am, I did a little research.
Quite frankly, I’m not impressed.
The term Douchebag seems way too polite to describe you, and all you represent.
KEEP RACING JUDI…you are the future of cycling.
pro women race as fast as junior men, so it won’t be the premiere event, but I would personally rather watch the women
I’ve been racing bikes since I was a “little” girl. Started racing at 16, and I’ve raced at the pro level on both the dirt and the road. I’ve raced the men, too. Not to mention, as a female racer, you find yourself training with the men on many occasions. For the most part, the male cyclists I’ve met have a great deal of respect for female riders and/or racers. However, there are a few bad apples out there, as your shitstorm proves, no doubt. But for the most part, I’ve found respect among fellow riders and racers (male and female alike)…though rarely equal payout or sponsorship or press or fame or whatever for women and men.
That being said, women’s cycling certainly doesn’t get the respect it deserves…or the money, for that matter. At the same time, USA Cycling HAS gotten behind women’s cycling in a big way in the last few years. Every year, they are sending more and more women to Europe to race, and now the USA National Women’s team (road) is well-respected in the European peloton, what with all-star performances by women like Mara Abbott, Kristin Armstrong, and many others. And though USAC is lagging a bit in support for the women on the dirt, there are some signs they are starting to see the light there as well.
There are women out there who are dedicated to the sport and working to garner more respect. That in and of itself is what matters. There will always be naysayers – and maybe never equal prize money or sponsorship – but there is equal (if not greater) passion in women’s racing (dirt, track, cross, road, whatever).
Oh and…there is less doping controversy in women’s cycling at the moment…just sayin’.
So stick to your guns, ladies! Keep pedaling those bikes.
Some races even have a class for fat decrepit old geezers like me. Not that I race or anything; I’m just sayin’…
@melanie, thanks for reading and thanks for the encouragement!! keep pedaling girl.
Howdy. You all might find what Kerry Litka has to say.
http://www.kerry-litka.com/main/wordpress/2010/01/26/the-problem-with-womens-cycling/
Honey,
There just aren’t enough women racers. I can’t count the number of races I’ve been at , both road and MTB and the womens field is 3 to 7 racers tops and only half are competative. This doesn’t bode well as a feeder for the higher CAT’s.
equal pay for equal work ?
Finishing 3rd out of 7 should hardly be rewarded the same as 3rd out of 70.
Sorry but racing is hard and even harder to find a race for dames.
Love ,
Don
Oh…Don, Don, Don….sweetie pie. Tootsie. When you learn how to spell competitive, we’ll take you a little more seriously. Sleep tight snook’ems.
It’s competitive Don.
Amazing how no one is focusing on the fact that someone like Richard Hoeting is part of USA Cycling and clearly should not be.
Someone like that is preventing the evolution of cycling in general.
Oh, and Kerry Litka needs to get out more.
That kind of shit happens everywhere, and it’s not gender specific.
Just in the interest of this ongoing conversation, I have a question; what of paying ten deep in both the men’s and women’s field where the former has 70 entrants and the latter only seven?
Should a bigger field have a richer prize purse, a deeper pot of money from which to ladle out primes & prizes? It’s either that or the big pot feeds the little pot. Which, honestly, may be ok as well.
Thoughts?
@honey – rick got his. trust me on that. he’s still getting it. what really sucks is that there are SO many more “rick hoetings” out there that we don’t even know about. USA cycling cares about aged 25-35 white males. that’s about it.
@bj – i know nada about the purse prize stuff. experts, please weigh in. all i know is that lance should give the women their race!
Judi,
You should race mountain bikes. http://www.ombc.net. The payout schedule is the same as the mens. Lower payouts only reflect the smaller field. A local Cincinnati shop has guaranteed a minimum payout at this weekend’s race at Ceasar Creek.
You start with women and race your class only. Because its an MTB race, there is nobody wheelsucking till the finish.
BTW, most MTB races in the area seem to be independent of USA cycling!
BJ – I think if the promoter is wise, they will advertise the prize list with a caveat of “minimum field size of _____ required” to prevent an uncomfortable scenario like this. In such instances I think it is reasonable to cut the prize list for the women’s field to the top three or top five. If a very small number are being paid out (such as three), then I would encourage maintaining the pay schedule for the top three from the top ten schedule. The excess funds can be used for primes for the men’s field or to cover losses on the race in general.
Obviously this is just one scenario – there a number of ways this could be handled justly without causing WWIII. Will everyone be happy? Never. Such is life.
@jeremy – thanks, mtb’ers are way mellow. last weekend they were so polite when i pulled over to let them pass. i was looking at doing EI but i actually took on some overtime the next two sundays. good luck if you are racing at cc. if you see debbie b., cheer her on for me. it’s her 1st MTB race in 4 years i think. we’ll be at EF riding sunday nite.
“Give the women their own race for fucks sake!”
Putting on races is hard work. Our club sponsors and puts on 6-8 races a year, all categories. Several times the payout is deeper than the field that shows up. Just checked out USA Cycling’s site for permitted races. Scanning the contact info tab doesn’t show many female promoters. I have been both a race promoter and volunteer in my years and I can tell you I’d MUCH rather be a volunteer. Maybe the best way to tackle this would be to show them you can do it better.
http://www.usacycling.org/events/index.php?state=OH
I hear you Judi.
I guess that was the point I was trying to make as well.
Hopefully in the near future people like that won’t have the opportunity to make decisions involving our sport.
All people who speak up for what they feel is wrong help make a difference.
Thank you for opening my eyes to this.
@26 – you sound just like a QCW BOD member. that’s what they told me when i asked them to give us a womens race this summer. maybe someday i will be a race promoter. who fucking knows? right now, i am just trying to get through my first year of racing.
Every race our club puts on (not QCW by the way) has womens categories. Always has, always will. Those USA cycling permits speak for themselves. Not directed at you, just a curious stat. Sometimes the best way to change things is to take them on yourself.
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Beth Honey,
My secretary usually does my typing but I gave her the night off to pick up my dry cleaning and buy herself a nice hat.
If you can’t argue the message attack the spelling…
Love,
Don
It’s hardly easy to get a men’s race going even if Lance is involved. How many men’s races are gone.. tour of Georgia… the most recent.
Frankly, why do you want Lance to do it for you? Do it yourself. Start small and work your way up. If you can’t make a small woman’s race self supporting, what makes you think a big race will be?
No one is owed anything in life…. you have to show you deserve it. Or flat out take it from someone else.
On a more serious note since the humor didn’t go over, grassroots is the only way to go.
If you look at MTB, grassroots seems to be out pacing NORBA races now a days.
If it’s money you are looking for, you’re SOL. Only a few make money and fewer are in it to make money.
The money that is available is derived from the entry fees and if you only have a few girls enter the race , it’s just not there. Do you think the money should be the same for beating 5 people as it is for beating 70+ ?
Sorry but thats the facts.
I agree they should have a womens only race. If they wont do it, start your own.
Here it goes Judi…
You raced the good race. Your first cross race you were passed by the kids if I’m not mistaken. You are so driven as a tri geek as to go by results in the whole race, ie; as we only lasted two laps to the men’s… bla bla bla…
If you get it into your head that your racing your race, then what does it mater other than DFL?? Second place in the men’s is only the first place loser??? Don’t you think.
It would be nice to see womens races… all five of you. Until you can line up 25-30 you’ll be with the men.
Truth hurts.
-B
Judi I do not remember sucking your dick, please post pics
Yeah Judi,
Totally start your own race if you want to race, it’s super easy.
All of these men had to fight their own races, god, it’s so easy.
This turned into a total waste of time.
Funny that everyone hates Lance, but wants his money…
So we want a women’s: GP de Plouay-Bretagne, Open de Suède Vargarda, Open de Suède Vargarda, GP Ciudad de Valladolid , Tour of Chongming Island World Cup, La Flèche Wallonne Féminine, Unive Ronde van Drenthe, Ronde van Vlaanderen / Tour des Flandres, Trofeo Alfredo Binda – Comune di Cittiglio AND WE WANT IT NOW!
okokokokokok
so we have THEM but how a bout a few more for the ladies, and not those crummy ladies only alleycat races ,a REAL race that has more than a messenger bag as a prize!!!
To hell with racing Judi. The nature of racing is really egocentric in the road racing scene. I loved it when I was younger, but now feel it is a waste of time and resources. Get some bags and go for some overnight tours w/ Dom. You can get all the epicness of a good race and you get out and meet folks and go kooky places. Go on club rides, unless they’re too snooty to let outsiders join in the fun. My guess is you ride for fun and fitness and thrills; you can still have all that action and avoid spending time w/ assholes you now know you don’t like. You’ve tried it out; maybe time to say thanks but no thanks to the road scene. So many fun things to do on a bike beside hanging out w/ classist assholes.
the racing scene is tough. who doesn’t enjoy testing mettle and rubbing elbows? with the road set, the pervasive tone is one of insecurity within an establishment of unsubstantiated elitism.
i’d definitely count on the mtb racing to provide you with less of that. the inequality that you face is embarrassing, to say the least. beyond that, it’s for sure disturbing. brace for it, i suppose, and when you fight it the way you did, you expose the completely weak.
see? balls are gay. i told you so.
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ask the men’s field for support, without them the race is a failure.
@Bluenoser – im shocked at your comment. how many beers did that take? all 5 of us? ummm, there were 30+ fucking women at vandervorts corner this spring. team dayton has 33 fucking women on their team alone! and this is amateur racing for fucks sake. fuck you thomas. fuck you.
don’t let the musty douche’s get you riled up Judi…
I never made it past sport or expert in the norba scene before deciding that i didn’t need to get caught up in the bs…. it can make racing no fun real quick.
now all i do is the endurance events. those are fun. first of all i know i’m never gonna win it. the win for me is testing myself – seeing what i’m capable of still. can i do it better than last year… etc. that is fun. no series standings, no rankings, just you against the earth and time.
that and all are friends at the endurance events.
The underground race scene is way more fun than “legit” race scenes anyway. So much less attitude when then main focus is fun.
By Don’s figuring out here our cat 4 women should have had some of the largest payouts at the beginning of this year…. we had around 5 races that had to have *2* cat 4 women’s fields because there were so many of them registered that they went over the limit….
Pack your bags and move out to Washington or Oregon. We have a vibrant women’s racing scene here in the PNW. We have enough ladies to have cat 4 fields at nearly all races and separate cat 3 at many. We still have to assert ourselves and for sure the payouts are usually poor compared to the boys, but we are making strides.
And it hasn’t been that long – 10 years ago or even less we had the same stuff happening up here, but some really dedicated women pushed. First they pushed for their own fields, then they pushed for cat 4 fields and you know what happened – women did come, they were no longer intimidated by being thrown directly in with the sharks so we’ve gone from the times when 5 ladies would line up for the big races and invariably unless you were one of the ones who was immediately the strongest you’d just get dropped and discouraged. Now we can get 80+ women to turn out in March in the pouring rain to race cat 4’s.
Don’t give up Judi, because you are right.
@seatle racer, you go on with your bad self girl. that’s wtf this is about. getting MORE women involved in the sport. i encourage every woman i see and if i show up at a race and notice a girl i don’t recognize, i say hi, introduce myself, and say LETS RIDE! thank you so much for taking the time to comment. i hope women continue to grow in this sport. xo.
The point that I was trying to make in my series of posts about women’s cycling is that there are number of variables affecting the current status of things and that there is no one single factor that you can point to as the root cause of the problem. Like Beth Mason, I too started racing in the last century and have seen the meteoric rise of women’s fields in the early part of the 2000s and then seen them rapidly deteriorate to where we are now, where we are lucky to get 15 women for a big money downtown crit and promoters are dropping women’s fields every weekend. Here in New England we’ll be lucky if we have 10 races on the calendar next year for any women’s fields, and when I started racing in ’99 we regularly had 50 in the Cat 4s and another 30-40 in the 1-2-3s.
If women want races, they need to take an active role in promoting them. Sending nasty emails to promoters is not going to make you any friends, it is not going to make them want to offer fields for you, and it will only contribute to the lack of opportunities. Here in NE there is a team well known for boycotting races if they disagree with anything the promoter ever said/did/implied/thought about regarding women’s racing. The end result is the club with the largest percentage of women racers organizes a boycott, and the promoter sees low numbers in the women’s race and decides to cancel, which effectively screws over the rest of us who actually took the time and money to enter said race. Women like to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Regarding being ‘forced’ to enter mens races and getting dropped – I’m sorry but if you want to be competitive, you need to be able to hang in a training race with men, as they are not going that much faster. Getting dropped happens but learning to ride in a faster, more competitive field will make you stronger. I view some of my better results as those races where there was no women’s field and I had to race with the men – the race was a lot tougher, I got in a much better workout, and I had a major sense of accomplishment.
Please don’t turn bike racing into another version of triathlon, where if you can’t swim they provide you with a helper monkey to do it for you.
Also – I don’t know of too many men’s teams where the team manager is sleeping with one of the dudes on the team. I may be wrong, here, but I am not aware of it.
Here’s the helper monkey link:
http://www.danskintriathlon.net/swim_angels.html
hey kerry, thanks for your thoughts. i really don’t take this racing thing as seriously as you do, obviously. i only do it as a means to keep myself out of trouble. i haven’t been in the game for a decade. hang with a men’s race? me? fuck no. i smoked for 23 years and treated my body like shit. no, i’m NOT good. i am simply an amateur masters bike racer, trying to step away from triathlon, and will never cat up above a 3.
as far as race promoting goes, i probably won’t go there. i’ll often volunteer to help at races though.
and what’s this about sleeping with a team manager?