The only word I can think of that describes this situation is “ugly”.
First off, you’ve got gun & ammo sales on the rise.
Concern that the Obama administration could impose a new ban on some semiautomatic weapons is driving worried gun owners to stockpile ammunition and cartridge reloading components at such a rate that manufacturers can’t meet demand.
Source: www.washingtonpost.com
Yeah, that feels good. Gun shop owners attribute this to Barak Obama becoming President. A black, liberal, alleged Muslim, friend of “terrorists”, socialist become president and what do you do? Stock up on guns and ammunition, of course.
“It started the day that Obama got elected,” Johnny Dury, who owns Dury’s Gun Shop in San Antonio, tells NPR’s Michele Norris. “It is when everything just went crazy in the gun business.”
Dury says people are buying guns as well as ammunition, creating a shortage of both. He says people are buying the guns to protect themselves because they perceive Obama’s policies as socialist and rewarding those “people who are not working hard.” They are also afraid, he says, of more restrictive gun laws.
www.npr.org
Secondly, you’ve got the likes of Rush Limbaugh (whom I won’t even bother to quote because we all know what he’s been saying), and Sean Hannity bringing complete falsehoods such as this to the table:
I think these jokers are dancing on a slippery slope.
…there is an additional element that was merely amusing a few weeks ago but has, in my view, become worrisome if not downright alarming: The apocalyptic and very public comments of prominent Republicans such as Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann, tough guy actor Chuck Norris and Fox News pontificator Glenn Beck whose delusional brand of patriotism leads them to proclaim that a second American Revolution may be necessary and it will not be nonviolent.
These are not merely the comments of “sore losers,” which is a frequent refrain from right-of-center commentators who are unwilling to acknowledge that there can be a connection between incendiary talk and incendiary actions.
Source: themoderatevoice.com
The evil they doth sow…
Anyway, this ought to cheer you up – Lisa Ann as Sarah Palin. Something we can all believe it.
“You miss my point. I said not all handguns are specifically designed to kill. I did not claim the majority are target pistols. 1000/1, 1000000/1, it doesn’t matter,”
pirata-
It doesn’t matter?? You say I’m 99.9999% correct and you still have a point? There’s a subtle concept out there, “the exception that proves the rule.” This isn’t difficult: millions of unlicensed or stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of disaffected urban youth leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here.
What the hell is with people just because someone disagrees with them, they assume that person is evil. The right wing bible thumpers were pretty bad in that respect but the obamadroids are just as bad if not worse. Just sayin’ Bet someone calls me a racist for using the term “obamadroid”.
you’re prejudice against blacks and robots.
No just robots and other non-thinkers
Looky here… a lovely little news item from today’s Times, about a young couple exercising their god-given second amendment rights and enjoying their ownership of a harmless target-shooting device. What could go wrong?
>>
By The Associated Press
OLYMPIA — A Fort Lewis soldier is dead after being accidentally shot in the head and killed by his wife in Olympia the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office says.
Lt. Chris Mealy of the sheriff’s office told KOMO-TV the soldier was teaching his wife how to handle a handgun when he was shot early Sunday. Mealy told The Olympian that the semi-automatic handgun was the soldier’s personal property.
Mealy says deputies were called at about 1:30 a.m. He says the soldier and his wife, both 25, had been out with friends before the shooting.
Mealy says after the couple got home, the soldier decided to teach his wife how to handle the handgun.<<
Give me a fuckin’ break already. Lots of people get killed doing stupid things with dangerous things. Guns don’t kill people stupidity kills people. Had the solider properly instructed his wife on gun handling he’d still be with us. The most important rule is never point your gun at anything your not willing to destroy, treat all firearms as loaded.
“Guns don’t kill people stupidity kills people.”
Kirk-
What a moronic statement. Perhaps you mean, ‘guns don’t kill people, copper-jacketed lead bullets traveling at 1200 feet-per-second do.’
If this couple hadn’t had a handgun handy, would their ‘stupidity’ have splattered his brains all over the kitchen? You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here!
You start by being insulting. I can think of a thousand ways for stupid people to kill each other involving many household objects. Cars, knives, power tools,etc. these kill and injure thousands daily more so then guns I believe. You gun fearing types seam to have a blind spot there. I mean you seam to think that somehow the gun is the cause of all evil and stupidity and not simply a tool. It’s the evil and stupidity that are the problem, take away all the guns and the stupid and evil will find other tools.One of the worst massacres on U.S. soil outside of the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 involved a gallon of gas and not a single bullet.
We dont fear guns. We fear people that cannot think forward. Evolve for crying out loud. Laws are meant to be mutable, changeable, to reflect the changing social environment. Japan has one of the most strict gun ownership policies on the planet, and yet somehow, they manage to exist. Without their guns.
Oh I’m not evolved because I think it’s my duty to protect my family and my nation if need be. I can’t think forward because I think the second amendment was a good idea. I see your Japan and raise you Switzerland. Lot’s of guns few problems. I was going to go one in a well thought out well reasoned argument but I remember an old joke about teaching a pig to sing.
Mikey – take a second and read what I stated and then read what you originally wrote.
I simply corrected your sweeping claim that ALL guns were designed to kill. I still stand 100% correct in my statement that some guns are not designed to kill. Your are not even 0.001% correct on your original statement. Thus the target pistol example.
You are making sweeping, dramatic claims. I never said guns NEVER kill. I never claimed all guns are good. I still claim that the large majority are not used violently.
“This isn’t difficult: millions of unlicensed or stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of disaffected urban youth leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. You gun nuts have an amazing blind spot here.”
Millions of deaths is your claim now. Due to guns in the hands of disaffected youth. Interestingly, you bring up “disaffected youth” more than once, so arguably, THEY are the real problem, no? Guns are just one of their tools. What is your wish, we magically make guns disappear and death stops? Get rid of all potential implements of death? Accidental shootings happen, sadly. So does accidental electrocution. Drowning. Etc. Yes, not completely fair comparisons, but still potentially deadly.
How about this: http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN2436680520080624
Better get rid of these bastards too, thanks to some people in favor of protecting, these things are making a comeback, and taking a few of us with them in the process.
Gun nut I am not. Another ungrounded claim. I haven’t fired a gun in a long time. I am just realistic. Violence is a sad part of our human behavior. Some of us will continue to kill with whatever means available until we are extinct or seriously evolve. Getting rid of guns will only change the way we do it. In the end it is indeed the human brain the sends the signal to hurt another person.
Oh hell, now I just brushed on evolution…
“I can think of a thousand ways for stupid people to kill each other involving many household objects.”
Kirk-
Another totally lame statement. If the 25 year-old soldier’s wife had been holding ‘a household object,’ rather than a pistol- a machine designed specifically for violent human death, would her husband be dead today?
No.
My timely and topical example- this incident happened near my home yesterday- clearly shows how the proliferation of cheap handguns leads DIRECTLY to violent human death. If you can’t concede such a stone-cold obvious fact, you’re blind, baby.
“Oh I’m not evolved because I think it’s my duty to protect my family and my nation if need be”
Kirk-
Are you saying you require lethal force to offer your protection? You’re wrong.
“I simply corrected your sweeping claim that ALL guns were designed to kill.”
pirata-
Take a deep breath. Let’s review. My statement is that handguns are machines of violent death. You cited the ten thousand-to-one example of a custom-designed target pistol, which is slightly more awkward to blow someone’s brains out with. A patently absurd basis to defend the proliferation of cheap handguns in this country.
“Millions of deaths is your claim now.”
Take another deep breath. In the U.S., ten or twelve thousand people die of gunshot wounds each year. Most of these deaths come from handguns and most are murders. Fewer cheap, unlicensed/stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of young criminals would mean fewer violent American deaths every year.
“you guys are in the minority now. it’s supposed to taste like a shit taco.”
-stewart
History-
When the bill of rights was written, a gun required a few minutes to load one shot. Making it somewhat useless to protect ones family from, um, lets say, 2 or more attackers. That, and the fact that the Bill of Rights used the Virginia Declaration of RIghts and the English Bill of Rights 1689 as a basis.
Virginia Bill of RIghts has
XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.
Um nothing about an individual right to a gun there.
But the 1689 English Bill states
Freedom for Protestants to bear arms for their own defence, as suitable to their class and as allowed by law.
Which means there is still room to write laws banning weapons or types of weapons in England, except if you are Catholic, then you are screwed.
So now People claim they have the right to have a weapon in their home that shoots 100+ rounds a minute. This seems like an extreme stretch here, but I am an educated elitist, so what do I know.
I am not anti gun, but I believe the founding fathers, while forward thinking, would have been horrified at the bastardization of their ideals.
The initial intent of the post was to call out the fear mongering ‘news’ and tacit call for armed revolution. That is ugly.
Bob-
Bravo, sir. You make a ton of sense.
hey putz I just asked a question. answer the question. Compare and contrast the 2 issues rather than make your dogmatic myopic statements.
please do criticize obama by all means and back it up with something other than socialist or antiamerican. that would be refreshig
please tell me where it is that I drew a line in the sand? what I don’t accept is large blanket statements with no support.
DOGMATIC google it before you fire back you stupid cunt
more logic: Obama is limiting assult rifles therefore I can’t protect my home or defend my country. I mean I am at a loss here. people who process information like this are actually in out electorate. unbelievable
what else can a person assume kirk other than you might be a racist? you have not given us anything to go with here beyond a made up name. give us a basis to know where you are coming from other than what you do and don’t like. at least tell us why your dont like it and the significance involved.
simple question; how is it that limiting multi round assault arms is violating the second amendment and how will owning such arms protect us from the government or benefit society
you’ve all said it now just tell us how and why for fuck sake. who knows you might be right
Mikey and whoever is still following this fun one –
Where did I defend the proliferation of cheap handguns? I didn’t. I simply corrected your all inclusive statement that all h-guns are made with the sole purpose of being gruesome machines of human destruction. I used target pistols as a simple example. Neither of us know the ratio, 10-1, 1000000-1, so lets avoid using unsubstantiated facts/statistics. The fact that there is a single one proves my original point that not all handguns are designed specifically to kill.
I could go farther and state that since most guns produced are not used in any crime, let alone violence, that most are therefore not machines of death, but machines of amusement. Hobbies. Want statistics, check out FBI stats.
“Millions of deaths is your claim now.”
“Take another deep breath. In the U.S., ten or twelve thousand people die of gunshot wounds each year. Most of these deaths come from handguns and most are murders. Fewer cheap, unlicensed/stolen pawn shop pistols in the hands of young criminals would mean fewer violent American deaths every year.”
10-12 thousand is a far cry from millions. Millions is an exageration. Millions over the course of history if you take wars etc. into acct. So lets ban war I say. And young criminals. (why are all your bad guy examples young?) How many people are hurt/killed by DUI each year by the way? I am too lazy to look it up… Maybe we should ban alcohol?
I couldn’t agree more on fewer cheap saturday night special type weapons, but that was not your original claim I pushed back against.
Fewer violent deaths is probably not true either. Look at the murder rates in Ireland, the UK, S. Africa, Jamaica…despite stricter gun control measures they all went up. Not some NRA BS hype either (I don’t support the NRA, they are fear mongers as well IMO).
Bob raises very good points. The Constitution was written a long time ago for those times. No way to look ahead so they did their best.
Gun possession then and now are basically unrelated. Our government was designed to be flexible, allowing us to appoint leaders to decide when to make changes, amendments, and how to interpret the original laws. The current gun situation in the U.S. is a result of the actions (or lack of) by the government of the past 200+ years. Continued evaluation of this amendment has yielded what we are living with.
Currently people do have the right to own high capacity weapons. Tricky part is that the same laws written and subsequently interpreted to allow this can also be used to take away.
Muskets to AR-15s…definitely stretched that amendment out over time…
…“Imagine all the people,
living for today.
Imagine there’s no countries,
it isn’t hard to do,
nothing to kill or die for,
and no religion too.
…Imagine all the people,
living life in peace.
You may say I’m a dreamer
but I’m not the only one
I hope some day you’ll join us,
and the world will be as one.”…
…oh, sorry…driftin’, dreamin’, singin’ to myself here but these discussion not only tend to go on & on into redundancy & personal attacks (hey, i’m as guilty as anybody on THAT issue) but sometimes the seeming need for “intellectual” sophistry belies the fact that the KISS principal works as both an issue & world view…
…just sayin’…
Hey assface, when Alan Greenspan answered Jim Lehrer [I paraphrase] “no power has say over what we do” what part did you not understand?
If you want to conduct a credible study on what people think about Obama, please do. I don’t have the time. I saw an interview with KRS One on Obama Deception, he made some good points.
Fuck you and your dictionary. Obviously your nickname is butthead for a reason. I could spend all fucking day coming up with words to discredit you personally, but it’s not worth my time.
A true jägermeister would be more lethal with a simple semi-auto 22 long hunting rifle than most people would with an arsenal of dedicated assault weapons, so I think a lot of the argument is moot.
I think you’re underestimating the intelligence of our forefathers if you believe they didn’t think automatic weapons would be available at some point. After all, they did have pocket watches, so I would expect they’d be anticipating such technological advances.
Not coming to terms with death is killing us! :-)
Schultzie, bientworten sei fraggen bitte! Personal attack name calling in a discussion? Bet you are so mad right now you could just shoot somebody. You really scare me.
Like I’m the one standing behind armies ready to blow your head off, telling you one thing and doing another. So are you going to call the police and have them send in the swat team, because you’re scared and believe I may have more than just a pellet rifle? I guess you think I ought to be resigned to the dustbin of history for questioning authority?
You’re doing a real great job embracing fascism, why don’t you stand up and give yourself some recognition! NWO! NWO! NWO!
WAKE UP MOTHERFUCKERS! I’m not the one you should be scared of.
still can’t answer a question.
you go myopia man
a personal attack is your favorite fallacy. butthead fallacyface.
Jesus the illogic in this thread is just piling up and I really don’t have the time to go point by point especially sense most of ya’all can’t refute an argument without resorting to name calling. What I was trying to get at is the notion that our problems with violence have more to do with us as a society then the tools of violence take away one tool they’ll find another better to solve those problems then limit the rest of us decent folks in our ability to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our comunities. In fact I think it is your duty as a citizen Just one thing Butthead at least I have the balls to use my real name. Not like some…… That’s it I’m done
“our problems with violence have more to do with us as a society then the tools of violence take away one tool they’ll find another ”
Kirk, et al-
So the next time you run afoul of some tattooed hispanic kid wearing a blue bandana, which would you prefer to see in his hand, a stolen/unlicensed pawn shop pistol (a machine designed specifically for violent human death) or… some other ‘tool?’
Jesus, you guys are being morons. It is totally stone-cold obvious that the proliferation of handguns in this country leads directly to thousands of violent deaths every year, yet you cite examples like target pistols or knives as reasons we should just bury our heads in the sand and hope it happens to someone else.
Mikey, The person will in your example will most like be able to get his hands on some sort of a deadly weapon regardless of any laws restricting firearms. It might be a firearm either made in a factory perhaps stolen from the police or armed forces or made in someones garage, firearms are simple machines after all. It might be a knife a baseball bat crow bar etc. I’d like to have the option of being able to respond to his use of deadly force with some of my own. I’d rather not have to rely on the cops. The people who shouldn’t have guns never have a problem getting them. So why shouldn’t the rest of us be allowed to carry them as well. I think I’m going to stop checking D.C. for a few days and do my part to let this pointless thread die. We can go back and forth but let’s face it we might as well say in uninison now. “I’m right and your wrong!” for all the good it will do.
…absolutely right regarding handguns (& automatic weapons), mikey…
…& i’ll say it again…the KISS principal would work but everyone on this site needs or wants to exercise their intellectual sophistry & the real point about people dying, gets lost in the translation…
Considering there is an unlimited supply of “People” does it really matter if a few are knocked off in the name of freedom?
Just say’n.
…ya know, gnomer, that is a theory i can actually ascribe to but, fuck, it gets messy when they’re layin’ around dead in the neighborhood…
…& chicks like octo-mom ???…don’t care how anyone rationalizes that shit, it’s sick, sad, stupid & a total fucking waste of so many resources, on so many levels…
Hey, gun nuts-
In my town early Sunday morning, a disaffected youth whose allegiance is pledged to a ‘notorious hispanic street gang’ drove by a small group of fellows apparently allied with- get this- a DIFFERENT “notorious hispanic street gang’ and busted a cap in one of them. He’s 17 years old and will be tried as an adult for Attempted Murder.
Nope, nothing wrong here. Just a young citizen exercising his god-given second amendment rights.
Then- you can’t make this shit up- on Monday morning, a young african-american fellow was shot on the sidewalk in the central district. Well, four if his friends decided to exercise their god-given second amendment rights and hunted down the alleged perp, and at a busy intersection by the airport- I’m not making this up, it’s on the front page of today’s Times- and pumped thirty rounds into his car WITH AN AK-47 ASSAULT RIFLE. One young fellow died and another was critically injured. A woman and small child in the back seat were miraculously unharmed. All four youths have been indicted on Murder and Attempted Murder charges.
Nope, no problem here. just a few young citizens exercising their god-given second amendment rights to keep and bear assault rifles.
Let’s review: I’ve cited three tragic instances of gun violence in my own town in the last three days, yet the gun nuts here say we need more handguns and assault rifles to feel safe. How’s that working out so far?
Morons.
Those were “tragic” instances? Arguable.
ya, I agree with Gnome. Too many people, too little space, not enough weed. Cars kill people, but are not necessary to defend yourself. Guns kill people, but are not used as the og patriots used them. Obama has not outlawed guns, he won’t. But a .30-06 deer rifle is good for defending yourself from the govment, an Uzzi is good for killing your neighbor.
“The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an “equalizer.” Egalite implies liberte. And always will. Let us hope our weapons are never needed—but do not forget what the common people of this nation knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny.” ed abbey
What is an AK-47 closer to? A tank or a Hawken?
i dunno, fuck it dude, let’s go ride bikes
Schultzie, you do shitty math. You side step the argument, reply to statements never made, and then resort to name calling. OK, heres one for you, microcephalic. Check your blood pressure, tame your language, get an education. I’m outta this thread.
The only ones burying their heads are those who think eliminating guns will eliminate violence. Continually using young thugs as examples is perfect. Did guns make them thugs?
I will again note the Tutsis and Hutus. Not a lot of guns there but a lot of dead, raped, injured, scarred people. So how do we solve those problems? Get rid of machetes? Tree limbs? Schlongs? I think most would agree their situation has been more horrific than anything we have seen in recent U.S. history.
And don’t forget the 2nd amendment does not grant anyone the right to kill. I havne’t seen that yet in the Bill of Rights. Although it may arguably have some merit.
And just to interject a little fact into this spiraling discussion, the top causes of death in the U.S. are not gun related.
Poor life choices is what is killing people more than anything.
Tobacco, Alcohol, obesity/poor diet. What does this tell you?
Tells me guns aren’t our biggest problem. Not even close. Suicide tends to rank higher than homicide.
We don’t need to worry about guns, we should fear ourselves. Check the facts. (CDC, JAMA, something with some semblance of reputation)
So whoever said lets dump this shitcan discussion and ride bikes has the right idea. Alcohol may be a rough one though…shudder…moderation?
“The only ones burying their heads are those who think eliminating guns will eliminate violence.”
pirata-
Um, eliminating guns would eliminate gun violence, would it not? Have you been reading along? That’s about 5000 Americans per year. Yeesh, you’re making this too easy; you’re smarter than that.
“Poor life choices is what is killing people more than anything. Tobacco, Alcohol, obesity/poor diet. What does this tell you?”
pirata-
That Americans are free to engage in self-destructive behavior? Look, I don’t mind if a guy kills himself. What I mind is when they whip out a stolen/unlicensed pawn shop pistol and waste ME or someone I love. This is not that difficult.
Mikey,
I have been reading along. Too much perhaps.
Your idea really is simple, but just not feasible. Sure, if we could eliminate guns like eliminating small pox, then gun violence would go way down. But that won’t happen due to the “when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns” effect.
Drugs are illegal yet everywhere despite pretty major efforts at eradication. Automatic weapons are already illegal but still used criminally. Short of installing an iron fisted dictatorship, I can’t see this happening anytime soon. And it still doesn’t get rid of violence, which is the root issue. It just gets rid of a means to an end. Humans are creative and have continued to find ways to work with what they have available. No guns? ok, something else.
The only true way to get rid of violence is to get rid of violent people.
That is my point. There is nothing even remotely simple about any aspect of the gun/violence/societal problems in this country.
The thing that must be eliminated is the desire to kill/hurt another person. That is the ultimate solution.
They are going to take away our condoms
they’re going to take away human contact altogether, no woman will ever grab your junk again.
“Your idea really is simple, but just not feasible. Sure, if we could eliminate guns like eliminating small pox, then gun violence would go way down.”
pirata-
So don’t even try? Head in the sand? I don’t think that’s the best way forward.
As usual, we don’t really disagree all that much. Thank you for your thoughts.
…unfortunately, it is a case of trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle…
” Guns don’t kill people. Apes with guns kill people!”
Hey Pirata!
Arguing with Mikey will just drive you nuts! You better just let it go. He likes to twist peoples words around, and try to make them think they said something entirely different from what they actually posted. You’ll never get anywhere with him! So for your own sanity, I recommend letting go. Okalee dokalee?
Flanders –
I have no idea what you are talking about. Isn’t it clear that all I am trying to say is mountain dew is destroying the teeth of inner appalachian inhabitants? Man, that stuff really needs to go!
At this point I am done, gotta move on. I’ll just agree to disagree, which is ok.
Got important things to do anyhow – eat pizza and drink beer.