Seattle v. Portland? What’s the best bike city in the US?

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Both cities have more than ten bicycle shops. Both have a sharp business dude importing European bikes and selling them for a huge markup. Portland has more framebuilders; and therefore has more out of work framebuilders – due to Portland’s proximity to Oregon. Seattle has nuances that keep it interesting, and so does Portland, but Portland goes way too far into the strato-hip, as in: “Jeez, do I have to have a well developed (yet stylishly presented) beard, tatoos of exceptionally unique nature, a handmade cycling cap, and wear brown and black to work at a bike shop? Fuck!”

The good guys at 'A Better Cycle - very helpful and knowledgeable.

I haven’t been to every city in these here United States. I’ve been to and spent some time in all of the bicycle friendly and somewhat friendly places that I’m aware of – unless there’s a secret bike city that I don’t know of. These include: (please feel free to chastise me if I missed your fine city) Tucson, Flagstaff, Davis, Arcata, Chico, Ashland, Eugene, Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Louisville, St. Louis, Eau Claire, Madison, Milwaukee, Burlington, VT.  and Denver. Sorry, Austin. I am sure you’re a great place, but I’ve not been there. Seattle is a great bike city. It is catching up quickly in reputation to Portland and will soon surpass it… of this I have little doubt.

My 3 favorite bicycle cities are, in this order: Minneapolis, Seattle, Tucson.

Minneapolis has harsh winter weather, but the three good seasons are enough to make it America’s bicycle friendly gem. This shit rules. I daresay that needs a Twin Cities correspondent. It might be me someday. I dream of going back to the city of babes and bikes. And Grain Belt.

Grain belt smaller.jgp

The bar is raised there, in the art department. Bicycle related art is fine and flourishing in the twin cities.

ZZLove 001

Seattle and Portland haven’t caught on yet to the wonderful combination of cafe and bicycle shop. In Minneapolis, they are numerous. Conversations about bike tech are custom and occur with regularity. People notice your sweet rig and it is a great conversation starter. Big gangs of old ladies are out riding their bikes every weekend on the nations only ‘bicycle interstate’ and the numerous other trails, of which I did not see each mile.

Senna helps someone on Saturday in summer on the Greenway
Senna helps someone on Saturday in summer on the Greenway

The lakes within the city are ringed with one way bicycle paths that are filled each weekend with riders of all ages and types. Green Lake is nice… don’t get me wrong, only on a bicycle you want to take the boulevard if you don’t want to be mired in by walkers and runners.

Lovely, romantic Portland – fret not, on my list you are fourth.

Meticon Bikes on Foster.  GOOD PEEPS.
Meticon Bikes on Foster. GOOD PEEPS.

But your arrogance as claiming to be the best bicycle city in the US is underscored by the reality that a sheer number of more bike riders does not a best bike city make, in my opinion.

I’m limiting my analysis to the US in my US-centric experience. Still, none of these are Montreal, or Vancouver. These are cities located in Canada where the priorities are slightly different and the culture a little more different.

And Tucson? 70 degrees and sunny in the winter. Empty wide streets. A health conscious population and great bicycle shops like Fair Wheel bikes and Ordinary Bicycle Shop. The GABA swap meet. El Tour. Tucson isn’t the most friendly bike city because too often a person gets run over by a sun-faded Ford LTD from the 70s, and way too often a motherfucker yells, throws bottles, or waves pistols at a bicyclist. Perhaps my top three list should include Portland, but Tucson has some kind of incredible bicycle culture and parade of freaks that is not to be found anywhere else, but again, Austin is uncharted for me and I’ve heard good things.

I’ll leave you with this picture of a little project I did between pounding nails and swapping carburetors:

Yes, there is a lot of concrete holding that post in
Yes, there is a lot of concrete holding that post in.

This is my contribution to Seattle.

I put this post in and sacrificed a Suntour XC comp crank to protect the tree and put Iris plants in to participate in one of Seattle’s most endearing customs: Planting and creatively working with your neighbors to make these traffic circles unique and interesting. Get out there and dig. Drink good coffee. Talk to your next door folk. Drink good beer and great wine. These are only suggestions. This wine here – Bombing Range Red – is so fucking good I bought 6 of them.

They call it a 'table wine' but it's 14.8%
They call it a 'table wine' but it's 14.8%
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About littlejar

5 - Learned to ride in paved alley behind liquor store in Lowell. 16 - Road bike riding alone while peers do soccer practice. 18 - First new road bike bought with winnings from Project Graduation. 20 - Burlington VT. Nuff said. 22 - Joined the Air Force. 23 - Joined team Fair Wheel in Tucson - rode the Shootout. 24 - Rode El Tour in under five. 26 - Toured to Quebec City 28 - Toured Oklahoma to Vermont 30 - Found my dream bike - a 1989 58cm LaBan (#22) 32 - Experienced Minneapolis and saw BIKE CULTURE. 34 - Building my first bicycle frame, with a self made jig. USA

70 Replies to “Seattle v. Portland? What’s the best bike city in the US?”

  1. I’ve heard great things about Minneapolis, from both cyclists and non-cyclists. It’s reputation is a mid-sized city on the upswing. However, I’ve never been there, and the thought of a proper winter scares me. Growing up in NorCal and living in central TX for a decade has made me very soft when it comes to actual winter.

    Outside of the weather, Austin has a lot in common with Portland. More gun racks and more outwardly friendly people. The freaks are TX freaks, instead of OR freaks. You could have taken that first picture in half the shops in Austin. Is it a cycling city? I guess so. You can ride year round if you are remotely tough or determined, so you do get a lot of people riding. The areas around Austin have some wonderful riding, both road and mtb. There’s a lot of great things about Austin, and plenty of reasons to stay there outside of cycling, but they don’t have the cycling infrastructure to truly be a great cycling city. (But I don’t know that any US city does.) A couple hundred people can show up for the moonlight rides around town, so there’s that. I really like being close to Austin, but not in it anymore.

    I’ll have to see if the wine is available here. I haven’t seen it and unless they have a distributor, TABC won’t let them in. My recc. is Folie a Deux – Menage a Trois Red. Here in San Marcos, it’s been running less than $8/bottle.

  2. just ’cause a shop is staffed by dirtbags doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing.

  3. Best bike city? Bend, OR. 7 Micro breweries and 8 bike shops to service a town of 80,000. Also one of the few places that you can ride either a road or mountain bike year round, or ride powder in the morning and tacky, buff single track all afternoon.

    I grew up in Bend, currently I’m over in Eugene doing the whole school thing but there’s one thing i know for sure: Bend is it in terms of bikes.

  4. Dazzle me with data. Keep it coming. Can someone beat 1 bike shop to 10Grand head? (80K is a good round small city size)
    Been to Boulder; even the homeless are snobs. That’s why I gave props to Denver. Bend and other B cities – I apologize for the omission.
    DO NOT get me started on Eugene. Best leave that alone.

  5. Flagstafftown, AZ and Durangotown, CO are in a class of their own. was born and raised in flagtown and before moving to d-town 8 years ago, i thought the former was the center of the cosmiccycling universe. maybe it still is but d-town has soooo much diversity of dirt, sand, clay, road that it cannot be a second. portland and seattle… wtf, any altitude… no, just a bunch of neofixiecons… fat and pasty can’t compete with skinny, bronzed and baked. shittle on my fiddle… if you prefer ego-filled urban riding with thick rimmed glasses and pastiness, go to seaportlattle. whatever. fuck you littlejarheadturd. if you want to step up, intergallactic style, well, go southwest old punk.

  6. …fairfax ‘fucking’ california…

    …8,000 people, 2 great bike shops, no douches, everybody in both shops is cool…
    …access to plenty of great riding, road or dirt…
    …bike lanes…
    …beer pub where they make their own…outside seating w/ bike racks…
    …wine bar…
    …every liquor store has an awesome beer selection (or they wouldn’t survive)…
    …good restaurants, cafes n’ take-out…
    …awesome natural food store…big bike rack…
    …live music regularly in several bars…
    …a sausage, beer & bookshop w/ inside bike parking…
    …public bike racks around town…

    …& a shit-ton of cyclists of every age…
    …in general, a fully tolerant attitude towards cyclists…

    …beat that motherfuckers & if you feel you need to live in a bigger city, that’s your problem…enjoy…

  7. I have been living in Portland for the past 8 months and it is impossible to find a singletrack in the area of the city, if there is much urban cycling, people use their bikes as transportation, also there is much diversity and good roads to practice road cycling, but if you want to practice mountain biking all the parks are closed for this, you need to drive at least an hour to find singketracks.
    On the other hand, Bend Or. Is a good place for all types of cycling but I still prefer Arizona, these parts of the north lacked the magic and mysticism that I have found only in the ways of Arizona Also the people is different

  8. Flagstaff AZ: 5.5 bike shops for 60 thousand peeps. Rednecks as far as the eye can see to the east. Singletrack as far as the eye can see in any direction. And as Joe Murray put it; “I can’t imagine wanting to live anywhere else”.

  9. My POV: Austin TX is ‘ok’. I was born and raised here. I’ve never bike in the famous cities you speak of. I have biked in Santa Fe NM, that was great. Austin is ok, I still get the “get off the road” yelled at 1 – 2 times per week. Its gotten better, used to get it daily. I’ve been hit 4 times by cars. The biggest obstacle I encounter on my rides is the hipsters running all the lights on their flourescent bikes. But I can roll my marathon supreme 2.0’s up one side of them and down the other, 3 ways: Fast Hard & Continuously. I got an Air-Zounds horn last year, best 40 bux I ever spent. Any QBP linked shop can get it for you. The best morning ride is Sunday, they don’t sell beer or wine here till noon. Austin has trails, roads, bike lanes whatever you want, and with 300 days of sunshine per year on average its good. We run on average between 70%–90% humidity so your best most high tech rain gear is useless here.
    Someday I’ll ride other nice towns

  10. Minneapolis, plain and simple. They have a huge commuting/messenger/urban scene, a velodrome, fun mountain biking within city limits, a mayor who rides, a legacy and history rooted in bikes, GenO, road racing, infrastructure to support more… The only bummer part is the winter, but even that doesn’t stop them.

  11. fuck colorado altogether. they banned pit bulls. and in some cities, officials came to your house to take your fucking dog if it was reg’d as a bully. i wont fly into or even connect through colorado at all. fuck that state.

  12. I’ve seen Minneapolis in the winter. No thank you.

    And judi, I’m with you, kid. Pits, Rotties, Dobermans, German Shepherds-Been around them all, and in almost 60 years on this earth I’ve seen only one (a Rottie; not that breed was a facter) that truly scared me. But the owner wanted a mean dog, and that’s how he raised the poor animal. I say if the authorities want to take anything, they should haul irresponsible humans away and lock ’em up.

  13. I think you have consider cities like Austin, Minneapolis, Portland, etc. separately from Flagstaff, Davis, Santa Cruz (it at least used to have a bike shop every mile, but expensive as hell), etc. The former are mid sized cities, with all the problems and benefits of living in a city. The latter are bike towns. IMO, if you can end up in a little college-bike town, you’re better off than in a city, and your riding options are sometimes better.

    judi, joe, werd. I was fostering a stray pit/pointer mix pup last year. One of the sweetest dogs ever…

  14. Fully agree with the Colorado political hate. I grew up in Colorado Springs with a former police dog when I was a kid, we always owned German Shepherds and bred them too. We even had a big ass pit bull named Grunt that was an amazing dog that just tried to steal your beer and whatever was on the grill. We had one german shepherd from the local shelter that bit me and a few others, he was from an abusive home and we had to show him forgiveness and compassion to end his habit. He was the most fiercely loyal dog I’ve ever seen after he realized his new pack loved him. They were all loyal to us, more so than the dick head politicians who exploit the citizenry to line their own pockets and push more of that disgusting urban development that makes the front range cities look like shit. I love Colorado, but damn the the politicians in that state, you fucked up my home.

  15. Grew up in Seattle before it succumbed to Californication and tried to be the next San Fransisco. Lived in Flag for awhile and while it was awesome, I like to actually make money to survive and not live off of the scraps. Great cycling means dick when you can barely afford rent and the necessities of life. Live in Portland now and for a bunch of hipster-vegan-holier-than-thou asshats it ain’t bad. But the snob factor is way high for what it is – it ain’t that great and people can’t seem to understand that.

    Rev. Dick FTW! Makes the perfect point.

  16. I’d like to know what makes Flagstaff a good bike city other than the worthwhile singletrack nearby? In the city itself, getting around on bike is not that great, and it’s the turbodieselfuckers and the pine smoke all winter that ruins it. Give me clean cold air over warm shitty air any season. Is it any wonder why Portland does not have singletrack? Every one of these big cities has sprawl in so many directions. Portland does have more and bigger parks than Seattle does, I must add. The smaller cities have a lot to offer, but then what about good jobs in towns like Fairfax or even Bend?
    I know plenty of people that only live in Seattle because of work. They hate it here. I decided I’m going to like it here out of simply being sick of my own tendency to think the *better* place is over the rainbow and yonder. We all over-romanticize the places we know. The blend of words I shot for was to try to be objective in the discussion of bicycle related merits of a city, while mostly subject to the expressed limitations of place-as-experienced. I’m glad someone came out and said: “Fuck Colorado” because… ahem… my sentiments exactly. What a fucked up state.

  17. Seattle/Portland are not great MTB towns because the terrain is generally too steep and muddy for singletrack.

    Seattle/Portland are tough riding in the winter, it’s wet ALL THE TIME.

    I’ve spent a lot of time in the Twin Cities and it’s a cool city, but it is UNINHABITABLE during winter.

    Just got back from Ketchum ID, a prime example of an excellent MTB town way too fucking expensive to live in. As LJ says, you gotta be able to live where you ride— towns like that do not count.

  18. ok, i’ll give it to portland if it’s all about looking kuhl on yer fixie, smoking cigs, wearing tight cotton black politically charged tshirts, and comparing kombucha recipies. for those of us lucky enough to have lived our lives in bike towns (as opposed to bike metropoli)it’s way more than urban riding with messenger bags tight and high. queer neohipsters on neon fixies is for cities; stoked people on bikes of all kinds wearing flip flops is where it’s at. don’t get me started on the benefits of altitude, you lowland palefacers. and littlejar, pine smoke all winter in flagstafftown? wtf? your are an idiot. and all the colorado hating is fine with me; stay home and more of the good stuff for us. and colorado springs is not what the state is all about. and SEAN, coming from the springs (home of ted haggart et al.,) you have no cred at all talking about bad politicians. co springs is all that sucks about the state. in fact the whole front range sucks, but that only a quarter of the state.

  19. I spent a summer field season in Ketchum… Talk about an amazing mtb town, but yeah as others have mentioned, you’ve got to be able to put food on the table and pay rent. It’s proximity to Sun Valley and the lack of anything but seasonal jobs makes that near impossible. Still wanting to get back there for a vacation though…

    I think you’re going to find that the roads are ruled by F-two-shitties, just about everywhere, especially as you move South and West…

    And yeah, #7 has it right. No place is going to be perfect. Find what’s good about where you are and ride. Even Davis, where bikes outnumber people, is flat as a pancake, and has no mtb riding without driving. You’ve got to ride for 30-45 min just to get some short hills on the road…

  20. I must represent, but first…

    1. If I could ever get the time and money to go I would LOVE to check out Minneapolis on a bicycle. Friends in the know say I will LOVE it. So Minneapolis is definitely on my to-ride list.

    2. Seattle is very nice, but VERY expensive. Even the cheap housing is way beyond me anymore. (Notice I did not complain about the hills. They’re there, either embrace them or don’t ride. I have ridden in Seattle and it’s fine. Really.)

    3. I am not built for Tucson, or for that matter, most of the desert southwest. I do not handle excessive heat all that well. So Tucson simply doesn’t make my list. Sorry, I’m sure it has its own charm, but unless the temp hovers below 80 for a solid guaranteed week or two I doubt I’ll ever make a point to go ride there.

    Portland (my fair city) has more than its share of pretension, overdone hipster chic and snooty bike-snobbery. Fortunately, I work in a shop that is too cheap and funky for that, and I am now — blissfully — too old to fit into all that. So I love living here. Even though there are plenty of gun-toting drivers who would shoot me if they thought they could get away with it; even though the city council just decided NOT to add anymore mountain biking amenities in Forest Park, even though I don’t — and never will — ride a fixed gear or have tattoos, and even though I drink my coffee like an East Coaster (with milk and suger, aka “regular” if you’re from Philly), and even though we get 40 to 45 inches of rainfall a year (spread out, incidentally, over six gray months that will make the uninitiated downright suicidal), Portland is still a mighty fine place to live and ride a bike. Just invest in quality rain gear and fenders, and you’ll be fine.

    However, it’s not such a great place to look for work right now. Unemployment hovers at around 11 per cent, higher than the national average. So if you’re thinking about moving to Portland soon, be independently wealthy or have a surefire job lined up in advance. Otherwise you will be SOL.

  21. The photo of the old ladies fixing a mechanical on the Midtown Greenway ‘bicycle freeway’ in Minneapolis is not more than a mile from my home.

    I am not a candidate for Minneapolis correspondent because I am not much into posting (this is a rare occasion). Honestly, who has the time?

    I love Minneapolis bicycling, in spite of the ridiculously cold winters (I pretty much stop riding when it gets below 20F, except maybe for the Stuporbowl). The ridiculous hipsters and the fat old dentists in full kit don’t bother me much, as long as they ride bikes.

    I have unbelievable road riding and singletrack available from my front door, a short ride on the LRT, or a short 30 minute car ride. Yes, we don’t have mountains, but that is what vacations are for.

    In case you were wondering.

  22. Rural, country as fuck, foothills of western NC. No traffic, traffic lights or hipsters. I wave at every pickup or farmer on a tractor, and they all wave back. They have gotten used to seeing us. I moved from Greenville, SC (which is trying real hard to be a cycling city/town with the Hincapie brothers and the national championships) to the farm house where I grew up in NC. More miles than you can count of rolling hills, steep climbs close by and a state park for single track. You just have to stock up on tubes and supplies, buy some on the internet and patronize the closest LBS 25 miles away when possible.

  23. Jarhead Martha,

    Why are your posts always so divisive? I bet you’re the kind of asshat who people tire of very quickly. Give it a rest, man.

  24. Santiago- go check out Powell Butte on the east side. You can get there via the springwater trail, and there’s a fun bunch of trails back there. It gets busy during the nice weekends, I’d say hit it in the morn on a weekday if you can. Also Lacamas Lake in Camas WA has some trails you can ride around on. They all loop around Round Lake, it’s not real extensive, but if you want trees and dirt and something to explore, check it out.

    George W-, take your bullshit homophobic generalistic hate somewhere else. “Your are an idiot” and a piece of shit too.

    Beth- you’ve nailed it. We’re in the same boat, and your reasons for liking Portland are the same as mine. I don’t give a shit about the fixters and what they’re “about”, most likely because I’m old enough not to care. I live on the poor side of the river and I hardly notice all of Portland’s “hip bike culture” anyhow. I have my group of friends who like to ride, and places to go, what more do I need?

  25. Thanks Loren,I was in Camas and at the round lake because i was living in Vancouver close to Vancouver Mall too but never in Powell Butte I’ll try the next day with sunshine,thanks again!!

  26. LJ, Eau Claire,really? Hmmm, fun singletrack, but limited.Great country road riding. College town, The Joynt, and a university. I grew up there, and ride there once and a while. But, never thought it would make a list of great bike towns. But, then again, it is home of Michael Perry (close enough, Bon Iver, and Menards. I’d still go 90 miles to the west for Minneapolis. Their winters gave us the Pugsley.

  27. Minneapolis might be great for urban riding and culture, but the roads clearest of cars and most varied in terrain I’ve ever ridden are the long lettered rural roads in Wisconsin.

  28. I keep waiting to hear Ashville NC. maybe it’s not big enough? Maybe expensive?..
    By way of caveat/disclosure I’ve never lived there and only visited a few times (for MTB purposes) but it always seems like a cool vibe, seemed bike friendly and the MTB riding nearby is phenomenal. ..good enough to lure my ass 16hrs south to start the season a couple weeks early anyway.

  29. I’m rep’n Arizona 100%. Tied to it. Deep. Super fun. New Mexico, Colorado, Utah – all worth checking out. Best city to live in? Shit. I’m stuck in Phoenix till next summer. City of 4.5m. It blows. I’m looking forward to getting myself all waist deep in some small town action.

    I’ll probably complain about that too…

  30. …i like parts of colorado i’ve been to…arizona looks pretty awesome…

    …but they don’t have an ocean…

    …don’t ask “why ???” ‘cuz i don’t have an answer but it seems in my book, i need an ocean nearby…

  31. BJ @ 43 – word. i trusted your backing of the SW would come through. and loren… even as a junior high english teacher you suck. bring it with more than yer msg ranch dressing. Intergalactic we ride… from the porch at alpine pizza to take-n-maybepay.. you’re messin’ round with da gods.

    keep it weird and evil.


  32. The two guys in the picture (associated with this story) would make great replacements for the Gimp and Zed in a Pulp Fiction sequel.

  33. Those guys in the picture are outstanding bicycle mechanics working at an incredibly cool bike shop called: “A Better Cycle” and I went to THEM when I needed that original old 1″ headset and lo – they had one, a Shimano 600 with the wavy nut. These are the dudes that hipsters are trying to be like, and often fail.

  34. tittiejar, maybe you could join them in a 4-way in the pulp fiction sequel. and i bet the two jarheads are way awesome cyclists… just look at the guns on the mustached one. bike mechanics who don’t / can’t ride hard aren’t da real deal. these guys look like hipsterized auto mechanics… puff. puff.

  35. Just as long as there’s a samurai sword hefted off the shelf involved.
    I’m in.

  36. Not really a city, more like a town, Whistler has plenty for the bikes, you better bring your wallet though!

  37. LJ— yes, in fact you do need ID to get into Canada. Me, I’ll be heading to Whistler on Monday, can’t wait. I need to straighten the de hanger on my poor old MTB right away. We have free lodging at Creekside and our local hosts promise “provisions.” That said, Mr. boomerbaird is right— Whistler is viciously expensive.

  38. Whoa, let me get this straight-You need ID to get into Canuckistan. And I understand (correct me if I’m wrong) you best not be caught in Meh-hee-co without papers. And everyone’s cool with that?

  39. @Joe— minor correction, sir— you’re thinking of Arizona. Not sure about Mexico, haven’t been down there in twenty years.

  40. Oh, you need papers in Mexico. Passport now, not just DL and birth certifiate. Plus a visa. Pretty much the same as Canadia, except they’ll let you in if you have an old arrest, which Canadia has been know to turn people around for…

  41. Joe, You’ve always needed I.D. The new(ish) passport requirement for travel between U.S. and Canada has been a few year on route, with a few extensions and delays but it’s pretty old news.
    My understanding is it was largely spearheaded by your dept homeland security post 911.
    Personally, I don’t see the big deal tho. Bring yer passport and unless you’re belligerent at the border it’s a formality same as always. (same either direction) As to old arrests and such, it’s again, the same each way. Dept. of Customs & Intimidation get to make the call, do what they want, when they want and it’s pointless to argue.
    (the snap of a rubber glove wins any argument)

  42. John +2, that’s funny as fuck.

    I hereby downgrade Seattle because of the fucked up fucking fucked lights that fucking don’t fucking change when you come up to them in the fucking middle of the god-damn night. You’re FORCED to break the law by riding through them. FUCK YOU, Seattle for this little bit of bike unfriendliness, but thanks after all for none of the cops fucking with me for breaking the law every fucking time I ride.

  43. I don’t even see what banning dogs has to do some place not being great for bicycles. Frankly, there are a couple of dogs on one of my favorite routes that I wish were banned… or at least fenced.

    If they wanted to do something about the owners, even better.

  44. Dear Marvin –

    I am a cyclist who believes and practices that the bicycle is a form of transportation first and foremost, as well as a wonderful way to ‘recreate’ – so for me, the fire roads and singletrack take third burner behind what the cities have to offer in terms of rideability and bicycle culture, and what the highways have in terms of shoulder and the ability to ride across the state.
    When I ride in a city, I go everywhere. I do not stay on the bike routes; I poke into every little section of the city I need to go to or care to see. I find the activity and kinetic energy of a city to be more interesting than nature. Yet, I do respect the desire to go out and be in remote places or ride along trails that other people have worn and made good with their shovels and saws. Colorado sucks for the same reason California does – you take some of the most beautiful places and put the richest people there and they make it into a haven of self-gratification and very inequitable local economies. Even Aspen has a ghetto mart supermarket where cheap rich people bring their fucking clipped coupons, and shop alongside the working class of the area that have to drive 30 miles to go to work because they sure as hell can’t afford a place in Aspen. Same shit in Stowe, VT and hundreds of other towns. It is depressing and creates a hopeless feeling to be wintered in places like this if you are not one of those spending thousands per week on ‘fun’.
    I hate people that have a lot and are so cheap, and they collect in the places where property is most valued. This is always true.
    It is the people that ruin it, not the setting. A perceptive person cannot ignore the trends and truths around them.
    My take on dogs is that if one attacks you or your dog without warning and causes severe harm that you should pull a pistol out and shoot it, if you have one. This, to me, is fair. Call me old fashioned, but this is far far more reasonable than some agent of the state coming to your door to take your dog away because it is of a certain breed. That, to me, is nazi-esqe and very sick.

  45. @LJ – “Call me old fashioned, but this is far far more reasonable than some agent of the state coming to your door to take your dog away because it is of a certain breed. That, to me, is nazi-esqe and very sick.”

    werd. if someone comes for one of my dogs, i guess im going too. i’d die before i let them take my dogs from me. and that is exactly what they did in denver and surrounding area neighborhoods. fucking sick shit. fuck ALL of colorado.

  46. “Call me old fashioned, but this is far far more reasonable than some agent of the state coming to your door to take your dog away because it is of a certain breed. That, to me, is nazi-esqe and very sick.”

    Totally agree. Banning entire breeds is wrong.

    And a hat tip to lj for proving Godwin’s law.

  47. In this same state there exists the largest feed lot in the world – tens of thousands of cattle herded together in misery. They don’t have any rights. They are property. So, they won’t let you have a pit bull but you’re allowed to contaminate a county by owning 15,000 shitting cows in one place. Talk about sick. I’m aware that CO is very big business friendly and the developers have created some of the most vast and character-less suburbs in existence there.
    My dog is my sweetie and my best friend. He is a part of my family… but the law doesn’t recognize this at all. A dog is considered property and can be taken away. As far as I’m concerned, we have only advanced a fraction toward humanity’s potential for greatness since the days of slave trading.

  48. Damn.

    First Nazi’s.

    Now slave traders.

    What’s next ?

    I vote pedophiles.

    Is there a law for that ?

    We’ll call it “Big Kitchen’s Law”.

  49. BJ mentioned UT. I live in SLC, been here for 16 yrs. I was a roadie when I got here then spent 3 yrs in a good shop that showed me the light.

    MTB’ng is king… There’s about 100 miles of awesome singletrack, all SS’able, surrounding that little hamlet called Park City a mere 15 mins from the valley (if you drive fast).

    SLC is clean, safe, cheap AND you can beer here. If not, there’s always Evanston, WY and you bootleg the shit in. Winter is good. Skiing is awesome. Riding in the valley is doable year round.

    All you have to do is turn a blind eye to the religion thing and you’ve got it dialed.