“I’m not going to lie. You know I was in that room. I heard it.”

The Armstrong Investigation continues to march forward. There is a rather extensive “List of doping allegations against Lance Armstrong” over at wiki. Today’s latest below.

A woman who worked closely with Lance Armstrong during the years he won the Tour de France is expected to testify before a federal grand jury as early as next week in a criminal investigation of Armstrong and his associates.

Stephanie McIlvain, who served as Armstrong’s liaison to one of his sponsors, the sunglasses company Oakley, is expected to be asked if she knows anything about whether Armstrong doped, according to a person briefed on the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity. She is also expected to be asked about the influence Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner, has over the people who work in cycling. www.nytimes.com.

In case you do not remember the name Stephanie McIlvain, she is one of the people who alleged to have witnesses Armstrong’s “confession” to drug use to his physicians while undergoing treatment for cancer. (NPR piece on the subject here: www.npr.org.)

[McIlvain] testified about Armstrong in a 2005 civil lawsuit. Armstrong and his former team owner, Tailwind Sports, brought that case against SCA Promotions, an insurance company that was seeking to withhold a $5 million bonus from Armstrong because of doping allegations against him.

In the SCA case, which was settled in Armstrong’s favor, McIlvain was questioned about a time in 1996 when she and others close to Armstrong were visiting him in a hospital during his battle with testicular cancer. Frankie Andreu — a former teammate and close friend on the United States Postal Service team — and his wife, Betsy, testified that they had overheard a conversation that day between Armstrong and a doctor in which Armstrong admitted to using steroids, testosterone, cortisone, growth hormone and EPO. The Andreus are cooperating with the federal investigation.

McIlvain testified during depositions in the SCA case that she did not hear Armstrong admit to drug use. Id.

What this woman will say this time ’round, I confess I haven’t a clue. But she is, once again, being dragged in to provide testimony regarding the same alleged confession from back in ’96. This last quote will explain the title I choose for this post.

Prosecutors are expected to focus on one particular piece of evidence when questioning McIlvain before the grand jury, according to the person briefed on the case. It is a tape recording of a phone conversation between McIlvain and the three-time Tour winner Greg LeMond; they also used to work together.

The taped conversation was among the reams of records that SCA Promotions turned over to federal prosecutors in July.

LeMond, a longtime nemesis of Armstrong, has publicly stated that he believes Armstrong used banned performance-enhancing drugs. In the taped conversation from 2004, McIlvain appears to contradict her sworn testimony and Armstrong’s in the SCA case. LeMond asks McIlvain if she would tell the truth about what she heard in the hospital room if a lawsuit between LeMond and Armstrong ever arose.

“I’m not going to lie,” McIlvain is heard saying on the recording. “You know I was in that room. I heard it.”

She later adds: “If I lie, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. You know, because I, too, know quite a bit because Lance and I were close, you know. But I definitely won’t lie about that because it’s public knowledge. A lot of people know about it, you know.”

McIlvain is also heard on the tape speaking about the power Armstrong had over the people who worked with him and for him.

“For someone to have that much influence on people is scary,” she said, adding, “Well, the whole thing of it is, Greg, is there is so many people protecting him that it is just sickening, you know.” Id.

She’s up against it. We’ll see what happens.

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

94 thoughts on ““I’m not going to lie. You know I was in that room. I heard it.”

  1. Ms. McIlvain is up against it, indeed. We will see what happens, including the *possibility* that Oakley pressured her to say the words she used in the SCA hearing to protect their sponsored client, Lance Pharmstrong.

    I also suggest that this complex investigation will show much collusion surrounding Lance, Inc./USA Cycling.

    This whole investigation has personal importance to me. I am going to sit back and watch…

  2. I understand why it matters but seriously back in the 90′s??? Baseball has the list and frankly according to Greg all the cyclist that were sucessful in the 90′s were doing it so why bother. You move forward and not backward. You can’t change what you did 20 years ago and neither can Lance and frankly do we want to know what you did??

  3. “You move forward and not backward.”

    Are you on the Public Strategies payroll?

    Look at it this (forward thinking) way – If you want to discourage young racers from doping now or in the future, wouldn’t it be useful for them to see how even the most successful, wealthy, and influential US cyclist in history was eventually caught?

  4. If you rob a charity in the 90′s you can bet the police still care, even if you are now a devout monk somewhere being awesome. You did wrong and now you pay for it. Why do we consider shit like this any different?

    Illegal practices were used alter the results of international sporting events. Millions of dollars were fraudulently acquired through sponsorships and prizes based off of the results garnered by the altered results. Intimidation, extortion, bribery and God-knows-what-else may have been used to keep the situation under wraps.

    This doesn’t sound much like something you “just move forward” from. It sounds more like a fucking mafia story, and guess what? when it opens up, it will probably sound even worse. It needs to be dealt with and that time is apparently now.
    Burying your head at this point is the easy option, but it is not the right one.

  5. TWT

    If you want to help “discourage young racers from doping now or in the future”…”You move forward”…(btw it wasn’t “just move forward”). Start the damn trial and get this over with…what everyone is missing is the most important part…society’s (non/cyclist) reaction after the math…Time Will tell.

  6. …t w t…

    …personally, i think while initially there will be a certain hue & cry of disappointment from the ‘non-cycling public’, i’ll bet they’ll be more supportive than the ‘cycling community’ would imagine & he’s still got plenty of supporters in cycling…

    …throw the man in jail as so many of you would be happy to see & there will be a backlash in society in general & ultimately it will work in his favor…his popularity will eventually grow as strong as ever…

    “it’s not about the bike”, how very prophetic…

    …from a world view, what it’s about is the cancer…it’s about the awareness & the organization & despite how fine a point any of you can make against the actual usable percentages recouped for donation or research, the world & plenty of popular people have this guys back…

    …the attitude will be “professional cycling ???…a child’s sport played at by adults…while it’s amazingly grueling, it means nothing…but cancer ???…well cancer affects us all…my mother / wife / child / grandfather / neighbor had cancer & died / survived / was devastated / however it played out…but lance armstrong ???…look at how he came back & of course it entailed drugs…that’s how you get through cancer…he’s done so much for everyone concerned”

    …wait n’ see…

  7. @bikesgonewild: The LeMond and McIlvane shit has been out there for years. As a matter of fact, besides Floyd’s saying there was a systematic doping program at the USPS team and the fact that he said he saw Armstrong dope, we’ve (the interested public) have learned absolutely NOTHING new about Mr. Armstrong since the Novitisky investigation began. What I find funny/annoying is the same people and sports reporters who were dismissive of LeMond, Walsh, and others in the past (e.g., they’re nothing but jealous people trying to take down a hero) and not starting to pay attention.

    This trend will no doubt continue…just wondering why it took a Federal Prosecutor to make it happen.

    Incidentally, unless McIlvane knows other stuff, the McIlvane/LeMond information should really not have much direct impact on the charges that Novitsky is pursuing (i.e., that Lance defrauded the USPS out of money by buying dope). All the hospital room shit happened BEFORE the USPS team even existed…while Lance was still officially riding for Cofidis.

    Thanks,
    Burt

  8. …burt…

    …i understand the time-line & i’ll admit to being a bit “thick” about this all along because i wanted to see verified truth, not supposition but i guess our hopes have been raised with floyd landis throwing his bloodied carcass on the carpet & so now we’d all just like to see the ‘novitsky/fed prosecutor’ investigation put enough portions of the truth on the table to build some palpable results…

    …i was also glad to see lemond, who i’ve always appreciated in the past, get off the ‘batshit’ soapbox…he couldn’t “prove” anything about the lance-ster (& still might not yet) but he was seriously damaging his credibility…i assume the landis input gives him enough hope that he seems to have changed his tact…

    …as far as actually learning anything new ???…between you n’ me, i doubt we’ll ever really learn the true details or ramifications should something prosecutable come up…there will a deal cut behind closed doors…

    …non sequitur but, gee, weren’t frankie & the lance-ster polite to each other this last tour ???…maybe even better than last year…

  9. “just wondering why it took a Federal Prosecutor”

    The reason is that the Feds have power to enforce and do not fuck around. When they catch you, they tell you what you’re facing which makes all the but craziest psychopath loose bowel control. Then they tell you that the only way to be less fucked is to give it all up. If you recall previous Federal doping investigations, they do no produce long lists of evidence of who did what when, they nail people for lying and there has been plenty of that. So, in the real world, there are consequences for lying,cheating and duplicity, its just that the people you fuck don’t usually have the power to crush you.

  10. digging up the dirt – WHY
    lets create a system that doesn’t create temptation to dope or create impossibly tough rides that people need to cheat in order to finish. There are bigger fish to fry right now, does anyone remember the millions of barrels of oil that are contaminating our food supply?

    I don’t know what good comes of all this for the sport of cycling, and more importantly for the people that “used” someone’s performance as motivation to get off the couch or out of the hospital to get better the end result is not going to be good.
    My opinion, no one can complete the Tour’s on bread and water, there is always something special in the sauce.

  11. The reason I say move forward is if you can’t nail all the cheaters from the 90′s or before. Just like baseball they have been using whatever for performance enhancement. Speed,Steriods,EPO,HGH, and on and on for awile now. We can only test and throw out the cheaters from current races and tours. That will teach the youth. Lance has had his image tarnished already in all of our minds. You can’t get back sponser money you can’t get anything. We took the tour from Floyd and gave to another doper and on and on but you will never know. Rasmussen finsihed high but then was caught. How long was he doing it??

  12. Tarnished? No. As Hoovis might have alluded to, there is a sect of cycling enthusiasts/fans/gen-pub who didn’t/don’t take what the Bicycling Magazine’s of the world had to say about Armstrong as Faith.

    Indeed, those poor, poor misguided cancer victims/supporters/enthusiasts. They thought there superhero was truthfully capable, but now… now they are coming to learn that they can’t beat the cancer unless they cheat too.

    Bitch Nut fraud’n mill’ns. That why.

  13. …gnomer…“…but now…now they are coming to learn that they can’t beat the cancer unless they cheat too.”

    …maybe i’m not ‘getting it’ but what, uh, exactly is the implication here ???…

    …surely you’re not suggesting that ‘epo’ when used for the restoration of red blood cells destroyed through radiation or toxic chemotherapy in cancer victims qualifies as ‘cheating’ are you ???…

    …i mean, the ‘cleansing process” is insidious, basically killing tissue with the ultimate hope that the use of the ‘epo’ fortified red blood cells will restore vitality to the affected area…

    …i doubt you’re suggesting that anything beyond water & fresh air is cheating in a cancer sufferer but anyway, please clarify…

  14. I’m simply saying that the poster child whom millions look up to and reflect on when regarding their own potential to beat cancer, is a fraud.

    That’s preemptive of course. I see no fat lady, yet.

  15. Well said Gnome, although I might make the change of “millions” to “hundreds” or maybe “thousands”. In other words, not every single person touched by cancer (patients & family/friends) looks up to Lance.*

    The following linked editorial is only one example, but a very good one. Sent to Velonews a while ago:

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/3aydj4c

    scroll down to: “re: Lance/Kimmage exchange”

    *and soon, I think many touched by cancer will look for inspiration elsewhere — as it should be.

  16. Valid point BFD. I seemed to have transposed the millions of corporation dollars with the victims of the cancer. My badness. Let’s call it thousands, then.

  17. In a perfect world Lance would have not looked to USPS, but started an Amgen EPO team after his cancer treatment. I bet there were even conversations to that effect.
    He slayed it for a long time…kind of sad to see Team Radioshack turn into team Cracker Jack.
    Shitty little prize inside.

  18. …while i have to agree that fraud is involved, the truth of the matter is that the man did have serious cancer & while he had plenty of professional help to beat some heavy odds, in recovery he climbed off his death bed with a very ambitious goal in mind…

    …never mind 7 tour wins, the simple fact that he climbed back on the bike to even approach the concept is maybe what resonates in the minds of so many…i’m fully aware that plenty of cancer survivors have shown similar act of recovery & courage but it was that huge ego that did install him in the minds of so many through those wins…

    …i’m also aware that plenty of cancer survivors don’t, in any way shape or form, wish to be represented by the ‘uni-baller’

    …my point is simply that in the long run, i believe that should there be prosecutable material that can be used against him, i honestly don’t believe he’ll be torn from the hearts & minds of the greater population…

    …drugs ???…“well, from what i read in the paper, they all used drugs, right ???”
    …huge ego ???…“well, most of those sports guys have big egos, right ???”
    …lying to the public ???…“well, i just don’t know who to believe anymore…there’s been so much controversy”

    …this guy didn’t kill anybody & while fraud may be involved, he didn’t bilk billions of dollars worth of peoples savings like a ‘bernie madoff’

    …he does utilize a lotta high priced mouthpieces & spin doctors to help him dominate media situations & he certainly fires back at his accusers with the sense of purpose he goes for wins with, but would you honestly expect anything less..

    …anyway, i’m not defending him but i am saying he’s ain’t gonna go away, any time soon from what i can gather…

  19. BGW, although you may have a personal storyline that resonates with him returning from a life threatening illness, it does not matter outside of your personal emotional bubble.

    relating him to madoff is a weird thing to do. throw a bigger asshole out there and then Lance doesn’t look so evil? there are no shades of grey here. he either defrauded the US government (and you as a taxpayer) of sponsorship dollars or didn’t. the shades of grey you create exist only in your own head as a way to rationalize to continued emotional attachment to 1ball.

    Anyone know if Novitsky nails it big time, and periods of doping become very well defined, is there any way a US federal result can get handed over to the TDF folks and he will get stripped of his wins or do these regulatory bodies exist in different universes?

  20. Jimmy, in regards to your question, the feds cannot remove any of his ‘victories’, but the USADA can within their defined statute of limitations. I believe that would be 2 – 3 TdFs (and perhaps other race’s results) in this scenario, and sanctions would occur after the federal investigation is complete and evidence is shown to be true.

    +1 on your other comments.

  21. “my point is simply that in the long run…… i honestly don’t believe he’ll be torn from the hearts & minds of the greater population…”

    “…anyway, i’m not defending him but i am saying he’s ain’t gonna go away……from what i can gather”

    …i tried to make it clear…‘we’ are perhaps, as cyclists, closer & have been all along, than the average joe…

    …i may be wrong about ‘their’ perception but i was referring to the public acceptance beyond cycling…

  22. BGW,

    I have left your posts alone for a long time now. I know how bad it can feel when you buy into a lie hook, line and sinker. I did it for years. But there comes a time when you see the writing on the wall and you stop. There is no logical explanation for you to continually ignore the mountain of evidence that is stacking up. How many people LA has hurt to promote his own self serving agenda?
    Pride is a bitch, but don’t let continue to make your views obtuse.

  23. Na, BGW has equivalently valid points. The L.A. empire has become larger than him. It’s not like he could have just stopped the charade. He had to commit, just like Madoff.

    Beyond that, the jury is still out regarding how long his presence will be accepted. All pun intended. He’s certainly on a fence now. And if he is convicted of fraud, there will be fallout. As bgw stated in 25, I don’t think the average joe-public-cancer-supporter has conversations to this depth regarding the allegations. He will either be found innocent, or guilty, and there the line will be drawn for him in the public’s eye.

    Maybe then, he and Landis can have a beer on a beach somewhere and reflect on what they have achieved together.

  24. …thanks for your elucidation, gnomer…

    …on a personal note, i was starting to feel like i was being hammered for a stance i stop taking ages ago…i don’t see myself as a flip flopper but i’m certainly not afraid change my opinion as i make clearer realizations…
    …therefore…

    …7 tour wins = amazing, no matter how you cut it, no matter what he used…

    …the fact that he did use ‘enhancement’ = wrong, wrong, wrong

    …got that humpty, got that jimmy ???…i think the lance-ster was wrong to use enhancement despite it’s rampant use throughout the peleton…i also think he’s wrong to lie about it & withhold the truth so i’d suggest we’re on the same page on this…

    …my point in this (again) is that in the court of popular opinion, the general public will still embrace the guy because of his stance & work regarding cancer…

    …i may be wrong & only “time will tell” but when you look at certain celebrities that have fallen from grace, for every “boo” heard there are plenty of “cheers”…there’s no accounting for public taste & that’s why i’m of that opinion…

    …stunning thought, gnomer – “Maybe then, he and Landis can have a beer on a beach somewhere and reflect on what they have achieved together.”

    …i just want my august fellow commentators to realize i don’t have my head buried in the sand on that beach…

  25. @bgw.
    “…7 tour wins = amazing, no matter how you cut it, no matter what he used…”

    No, actually it equals pathetic on level besides the racing. It is of the lowest character regardless of anything else he may have gone through.

  26. And as to whether Lance will fade…simply yes. He is fading as is cycling in the USA…people here may not like it but the facts are simple, not many give a crap about racing…to most cyclist are nothing but a pain in the ass. The more crap that comes out, the more bodies that pile up, the smaller it gets.

  27. ” the truth of the matter is that the man did have serious cancer ”

    How do you even know if this is true?

    I can’t be the only one who noticed he was 30 lbs lighter after his treatment. It is those 30 lbs that made the difference. Certainly other pro racers noticed this as well.

    One thing for sure, for a period of time racing was for douches who would do anything.

  28. …yo, dude…

    …’member ‘bizarro world’ in superman comics when you were a kid ???…

    …thought so…

    …just sayin’…

  29. bgw, no I don’t know ‘bizarro world’, never been in to fantasy or superheros like you and many others.

    I had no inner desire to believe in 7 clean tour wins…

    I have no need to ignore the physiological changes that occurred to maintain my belief…

    I have no ‘bizarro’ need to believe that because some of the cheating is coming out means that all the cheating has been exposed…

    I have no need to believe that a miracle occurred that no only allowed a man to survive cancer that was 100% terminal, spread all the way into his neck and brain, but also spared one testicle so he could reproduce…

    I guess you now somehow know where the lies stop and start…honestly, that is only in YOUR IMAGINATION! I’m not saying I know, I’m saying I don’t, but I don’t believe liars and cheaters about anything.

  30. Where do you think the ‘start a foundation’ if you get cheat or get caught cheating blueprint came from?

    You might be a sheep if you can’t answer that question.

    Pull your head out and see the sunshine. The world isn’t that bad of a place without your false idols.

  31. bgw…from the side you want to keep feeling has some redemptive values:
    “I hope somebody breaks a baseball bat over your head,” (Stephnie) McIlvain tells (Betsy) Andreu in the first message.

    That is criminal. Why does that side need to engage in criminal behavior?

  32. Outside cycling, the world won’t give a shit whether Lance cheated. Look at Michael Vick. What he did was way worse than taking some go juice to win a few bike races (IMO), and he is being lauded in Philly. But then I don’t expect any more than that from the NFL/NASKKKAR segment of the population…

  33. Micheal Vick atoned for what he did. He was punished a thousand fold what anyone else in the same position would have been. He has been honest about what happened, though perhaps forced to be so.

    If the same happens to the cyclists who have cheated and they suffer like MV then continue with their careers I’m ok with that.

  34. …for some reason, ‘little feat’ was playing in the back of my mind…

    “Well they say time loves a hero
    but only time will tell
    If he’s real, he’s a legend from heaven
    If he ain’t he was sent here from hell”

    …& re: michael vick…even after the shit he pulled & as vilified as he was by a large segment of the general population, as a ‘backup’, the guy is already making more cake per year than anybody on this site…the real point is, big gianni’s eagles are more than happy to have the guy on the roster, ugly reputation or not…

  35. What are you guys complaining about? I’m the resident Eagles fan who has to either 1) cheer for Vick’s success, or 2) stop watching football.

    Fuck me running why did they sign that bum? There are plenty of other manics out there who need the work. You couldn’t throw money at a bum I can believe in? Garcia is playing in some third tier farm-town squad Nebraska. Matt beer bong Leinart got cut by the Cards and ended up with the Texans. There is a long list of washed up old guys and up-and-comers looking to make a mark in the NFL. Philly did not have to employ that asswipe.

  36. …yo, dude…“He was punished a thousand fold what anyone else in the same position would have been.”

    …what the fuck are you talking about…

    …it’s like your baseless statements about the popularity of cycling…go to “usa cycling” & look at facts & figures…despite a lousy economy, in this country alone bicycle racing has grown exponentially over the last 10, even 20 years…

    …your last whole series of comments have been riddled with idiotic inaccuracies & misinterpretations…ie: the stephanie mcilvain / betsy andreu situation…she admitted that your quoted comment was made when she was both drunk & in oakley’s pocket…she later admitted to lemond (as a friend) that she had heard the same thing andreu did…therefore she may end up testifying against armstrong…

    …your bullshit about what or what isn’t “terminal” as regards cancer & it’s victims is a product of your imagination…there are so many factors involved, even a doctor well versed in the intricacies of the disease wouldn’t make such idiotic claims…

    …& maybe i’m a sheep for “not getting” whatever the fuck your saying about “starting a foundation & cheating blueprints” but i’ll bet i’m not the only one here…use facts, clarify please…

    …the only statement that you’ve made that comes close to being factual is “…for a period of time racing was for douches who would do anything” & your still only half right because that behavior persists to this day as witness the ‘joe papp schmear’

    …two big words, amigo…“better research”

  37. Piece o’ crap Vick should be breaking rocks. Alls I knows is my Steelers been winning with their third string quarterback. Can’t wait for Big Ben to get back in the game. And c’mon-he got suspended just for being accused, for fuck sake. Vick shouldn’t even be breathing the same air as the rest of us.

  38. …el jefe & gianni…i heard about the dog abuse but he fucks goats too ???…

    …sheesh…guess i’m only buying the imported stuff ’til somebody puts a stop to that shit…

  39. I do try to refrain from making comments of any personal nature, but I feel like Mr. YoRo may be off his meds. Vilifying Lance while deifying Vick is a nonsensical position to hold. Maybe it’s too subtle for me to grasp, but I doubt it. Keep the rubber side down, y’all.

  40. YoRo, Seriously? You accuse bgw of having blinders on, then defend Vick? I the cognitive dissonance is painful…

    bj, sorry about bringing Vick up…

  41. Vick paid the penalty set by society for his crimes. He spent time in prison and lost everything he had. I’m not defending dogfighting or animal abuse, unfortunately some of you seem to have poor reading comprehension.

    I’d like to see all the liars and cheats come clean and a fair and equitable solution to the madness that occurred. You people want to cry over animal abuse but seem to forget humans have suffered and died with this PEDs shit. Both are certainly wrong.

  42. bgw, being drunk is no excuse.

    And the level of punishment for Vick was very high. Some drunk, high idiot killed a woman (car vs. cyclist) near where I live a few years ago. He spent less time in jail than Vick.

    People get let off all the time for fighting dogs and chickens. It is sick but it happens. But for anyone here eating meat, well go find out where that shit comes from and how the animals are treated…yeah, I’m having a cheeseburger tonight so eff you.

  43. Read “The Lost Dogs” by Jim Gorant. Story of what happened to the dogs after they were rescued. If you can read the story and not rejoice for the animals and maybe cry a little, we will never be friends.

    Fuckin’ Vick. “Paid the penalty” my ass. Feet first down a logchipper woulda been too good for him.

  44. bgw, I also didn’t make any claim…I stated I have no need to believe in something (just because I saw it on tv, the internet or because someone told me).

    By now you have probably realized there are a lot of liars in cycling. Maybe you got all the answers, as I clearly stated, I do not. And again I won’t be listening to the liars and thinking I know anything.

  45. Joe, I live in a place (the USA) where we don’t chop people up or set them on fire or slice them open from there neck down. I’m glad I live in a place like this. When people do wrong they are punished. When the punishment is over they are largely free to do as they please. I didn’t set the rules, but they seem pretty good compared to a lot of places in the world.

  46. I’m aware of society’s rules. I can feel outrage and a compelling thirst for vengeance, yet set those impulses aside in deferance to those rules. That trait, among others, sets a man like me apart from a gangbanging hood rat piece of scum like Vick. But I most definitely would stand in line to piss on his grave.

  47. YoRo you are arguing with a person whose very use of standard rules of grammar broadcasts loud and clear that he is incapable of completing a thought.

    You know, that right bgw? Ellipses signal “I cannot complete this thought.”

    But boy oh boy he sure does have a lot of them.

  48. …now if we could only get ‘yoro’ & ‘e’ to simply communicate with each other & leave everybody else out…bingo…

    …but that ain’t likely to happen, so consider this a major “thank you” to you both for your major contributions here…

  49. @BGW- little math here- as far as Vick is concerned- with what he is earning, you have to look at what he has to pay- after taxes, after lawyers, after paying back his bankruptcy- the guy has about 75G left to himself. Now, to some of you, clearing 75G might seem like heaven, but consider he has a hometown in one area, then has to rent an apt in Philthadelphia for 6 to 8 months, not including hotel stays, etc during OTAs. Hence, after everything is said and done, you’re talking probably about 50G.

    However, this is going off on a totally diff topic, but just wanted to make light of the reality of the numbers

  50. “YoRo you are arguing with a person whose very use of standard rules of grammar broadcasts loud and clear that he is incapable of completing a thought.”

    We have to use standard rules of grammar on this here Internet now ?

    Damn.

    The Nuns have taken over.

    Bitches.

    Anyone comes at me with a ruler I’m going mid-evil(sic).

  51. …somehow, bikescag & perhaps this leaves me in the “heartless bastard” category but i can’t get too worked up about mr vick’s finances as regards his supplemental living situation…

    …but this much i know…he definitely stays in comped hotel & gets per diem expenses for food whilst on the road & it wouldn’t surprise me if the eagles (sorry, gianni, but they keep bring the team up, not me) cover his philly digs during the season but he also gets the benefit of a “training table”, ie: food, drinks, whatnot during training & game days…

    …i just wish jeff garcia was given a better shot…played a short time for the ’9ers (49ers) & i know that dude gives his heart & soul on the field as well as being one classy guy…

    …but don’t take my word for it, because yoro doesn’t seem to think i have much credibility due to his different & i’d guess, higher standards of what’s believable & what’s not…

    …& i apologize for being “incapable of completing a thought”

    …just sayin’…

  52. There are absolutely no parallels that can be drawn between LA and Vick. One is a convicted felon who has paid his debt to society. He’s square with Uncle Sam regardless of his standing with you. The other has not (yet) been convicted of a crime. However…

    Uncle Sam is the baddest of gangstas and he doesn’t like it when you lie to him and you don’t pay him his money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hBg80CZMJ4

    It can only end one of four ways for our erstwhile hero:

    1. He’s completely exhonerated.
    2. He’s found to have doped BEFORE cancer and his time with Postal. Guilty but not guilty.
    3. He’s found not guilty but a mountain of circumstantial evidence uncovered haunts him the rest of his days and destroys all credibility and ability to leverage said credibility for wealth or charity.
    4. He’s everything some of you think he is.

    The point is, you can lie and lawyer your way around WADA and the other impotent organizations of the world but it is significantly more difficult to do it to the law. Like it or not, there will be a legal version of the truth after all of this is said and done.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCtToN9Ixpw

    For all you haters out there, relish this thought: pleading the 5th will keep him out of jail but it will destroy his credibility.

    No matter how you slice it, Tex will get dirty. Still, I detect a strong “I hated Lance before it was cool to hate Lance” vibe on this site and that sucks. If he raced and won clean he deserves all he’s gained from it. If he hasn’t, he’s worse than a bad person (see #9 “Hello..”), he’s evil and deserves everything the gangsta has in store for him.

    Lastly, to the NASKKKAR jackhole, you’re a bigot dude. A hateful, stereotyping, bigot. You’re just the same as the people you thought you were talking about and the world could use a little less of that BS.

  53. iketaylor, close but you miss the point about the 5th. He can plead the 5th, be granted immunity, then forced to testify. At that point he has 3 choices…tell the truth or lie or be in contempt. If he lies he will most likely face perjury charges. It will be interesting.

  54. So you’re saying Lance is a suspected scumbag, but the slimeball Vick is a convicted scumbag. Looks like we’re on the same page.

  55. …ike taylor…you, sir make a lot of good & valid points & the “big worm” analogy is nicely humorous (with a creamsicle orange impala convertable, no less ???…wow !!!)but i’d suggest that while ‘el jefe’s’ comment might have been, shall we say, insensitive due to the ‘naskkkar’ inference, i don’t believe the man can honestly be called a “A hateful, stereotyping, bigot.”…uh, uh, not at all…

    …1 out of 3 perhaps but the word choice would be ‘stereotyping’ & i don’t remotely believe for a fucking minute the man is ‘hateful’ nor do i believe ‘bigot’ applies, whatsoever…nada, no way…

    …if anybody needs be called to the carpet, i’d suggest ‘yoro’ passed on a lotta unanswered points i originally brought up about his posts before we devolved into the michael vick scenario…

  56. bgw, give it up. You simply want to support liars and cheaters in whatever capacity you can…pathetic. I’m sure you hung on to the Floyd fantasy as long as you could. Keep holding on to your fantasy, the facts will come out over time.

    As for the things you want to go back to that I said, they where from recollection and perspective, I didn’t claim they were hard facts.

    Keep trying to hold on to that last shred of what you got from the last pathetic decade in cycling history. It sucked, it sucked to watch, it sucked to see what a few pathetic people could do to a sport.

  57. …you really grasp at straws, dude but you haven’t got a fucking clue…

    …you use the word “pathetic” ???…point the finger back where it belongs…

    …think you can play this all to your advantage ???…you’ve got nothing & you keep proving it through your insubstantial reiteration…

    …leave me out of it if you’re just gonna keep trying to worm out of anything but your self righteous bullshit…

    …thanks…

  58. @el jefe— I’m already assembling my posse for the 2012 USGP in Austin… Formula 1 makes NASA look like middle school science projects.

  59. I am not a huge fan of auto racing, but I will do everything I can to attend. I know the area they are putting the course in, and it’s rolling hills, nothing too steep so there won’t be any corkscrews like at Laguna Seca. It should be great for spectators, a challenging course, and the speeds should be high. They’re thinking 200mph on main straight, and 180mph by the grandstands… Fuck yeah. Little carbon bullets. Have they set the dates yet? Last I read it was going to be sometime close to Montreal (which is in June, right?), but that puts it in the middle of summer. That’ll be rough on drivers, cars and spectators…

  60. Also plan on bringing your bike (mtb if you’ve got one). Get my contact info from bj when it gets down to it, and I’ll take you on a tour.

  61. @el jefe— yes, the USGP is likely to be either before or after Canada in mid-June. (Another fantastic event, Montreal is a cool city and they go NUTS for the Grand Prix.) Tickets are spendy, but there literally ain’t anything like seeing a 1300-pound car making 20K RPMs. My first GP was in Phoenix AZ and I still remember watching Ayrton Senna taking 90-degree downtown corners at almost 100 mph— I thought he’d crash every time through. Austin is a long way from Seattle but I will try to drive & bring bikes. Awoo.

  62. I was at a conference in Montreal a few years ago. Amazing city (even if it is expensive). Friendly people, great food. If they didn’t have such brutal winters it might beat SF as my favorite city. The whole French-English historical fight by monument proxy is pretty funny, too. Cleanest red light district going…

  63. …i grew up on that shit…F1 & the big bore sports-racing cars pre can/am…mosport in canada, watkin’s glen in the usa…

    …still in my blood but it was so much more accessible in those days (late ’50′s, early 60′s)…i had the autograph of every top driver in the world when i was a kid & that came about by climbing over fences & being able to bullshit my way past security…

    “uh, dan gurney (or jim hall) is my dad & blah, blah, blah…hey, thanks, mister”…stuff you’d never get away with nowadays but to a kid it was the coolest thing ever…

  64. …I went to HS with Dan Gurney, Jr….

    … What a fucking dick…

    …Clearly inbred….

    …what the fuck was I sayin?…

    …just sayin’…

  65. …i remember back when i was a kid…

    …they closed down the airport for a weekend…

    …nothing beats the sensation of being just beyond the haybales at the apex of a turn when a 427 Cobra goes slamming past…

    …what were we talking about?…

  66. “…nothing beats the sensation of being just beyond the haybales at the apex of a turn when a 427 Cobra goes slamming past…”

    @Joe— with all due non-ellipsical respect, watching A. Senna slam past in a 900-hp Honda-McLaren beats it quite handily. The shock wave just about rips your sunglasses off.

  67. been there, done that, joe…many times over & loved every ear-splitting, gut twisting minute of it…

  68. …apples n’ oranges, gentlemen & when i was growing up, they were both part of a well rounded diet…

  69. Honda came to F1 in 1965, although best known for the early 90s, 3.5 liter V10s that won handfuls of world championships.

    And none of that crappy old pot metal holds a candle to 300 HP per liter of motor displacement coupled to the kind of downforce you can only buy with a full-scale, high-speed, rolling floor wind tunnel. They have aero diffusers for the exhaust over the rear deck, for chrissake. F1 is the shiznit, you gotta see it to believe it.

  70. Jeez you guys, spoken like someone that’s never stood at the chicane during a Grand Prix, smelled hot carbon and nitromethane and thought, jesus that guy’s gonna die as your sunglasses fly off. You gotta see it to believe it. Austin ’12, yo.

  71. I mean seriously, Cobra 427, grandpa did you carve that motor yourself?????? (NOTE: ATTEMPTED HUMOR.)

  72. Well mikey, (settles back in rocking chair, uncorks jug of moonshine) it was nineteen sixty-something. Our little mountain town didn’t get much excitement. Truth be told, most liked it that way.

    But every May for one weekend they closed down the airport and folks came from all around to race their sports cars. Best I remember these were amateurs in the truest sense-They did it for the love of the sport. Don’t remember hearing anything about no factory teams. The only open-wheeled cars I can recall were Formula V. And that was a long time ago. A long time ago. And I swear, I was only twelve or thirteen years old at the time and frankly, quite overwhelmed by the color, the noise, the excitement. So much to see. Had I known that I’d be getting cross-examined almost fifty years later by some snotty little intardwebnet commando that hadn’t even been born yet, I’d have taken more pictures and kept better notes.

  73. Sonny boy, you don’t know the half of it. Men was men, and wimmen was danged glad of it. Now get the hell off my lawn…

  74. …that was my take on it also…clearly wonderin’ wtf ???…

    …perhaps a nice ‘little’ well hidden deposit was made so a certain forgetful young lady can enjoy a real nice vacation once the shit has been wiped of the fan…

    …chick ought to live in belgium, become a ‘waffle’ maker at cycling events…

  75. …yoro…you really like to portray yourself as a foolish & insubstantial human being, don’t ‘cha ???…

    ..if you had read what was printed on the screen, you would know i was basically repeating the written statement of someone directly involved, not justifying anyone’s actions…

    …you have no idea where i really stand on the issue because you won’t invest the time to understand & yet you’re willing to denigrate me…

    …again…if you wish to deal in unsubstantiated material, please leave me out…thank you…

    …in other words, i’m tired of your weak sauce, dude…

  76. …btw, yoro…lemme save you some time & another foolish reply…i’ll reiterate my position so you don’t have to put your foot in your mouth…again…

    …”i think the lance-ster was wrong to use enhancement despite it’s rampant use throughout the peleton…i also think he’s wrong to lie about it & withhold the truth…”

    …could i be any clearer…