Several years ago I wrote an essay entitled: “On Helmets”, it was an exploration of why some professional cyclists still hung on to the practice of going helmet-less. That was a long time ago and I’m not in a category of cyclist to be around those people anymore. My sense of when and where to choose a helmet has been refined over the years. My recent post was not about helmets, it was about urban exploration and the wonders therein, but it sparked a controversy about helmet use, the mandating of helmet use, and helmets for children.
I don’t go to city council meetings as a habit, but when I briefly lived in Vancouver, WA, in the winter, I went to one, to vehemently disagree with the in-place helmet law for adult cyclists.
Because I rode to college at 8:00AM and it was still butt-cold most mornings, I wore a WOOL HAT. Therefore, no helmet. I asks the council members: “Why is it you mandate the use of a helmet that is ventilated and designed for warm weather only?” The answer is simple, though I did not hear this. In Washington, it doesn’t dawn on local government officials that anyone but desperate bums and kids use the bicycle to transport oneself around the city. To them, it’s recreation.
There’s yet another reason to not wear a helmet. Ever ridden all day long? I have – and the risk of skin cancer is higher and worse than cranial injury by riding the long white line. This is why, upon meeting people during my touring adventures, I explained to those that vocally challenged my helmetlessness and asked: “Why haven’t they invented a SUN helmet?” The little visor does NOT cut it, as you need 360 degrees of sun protection. Nope, I don’t do chemicals on my skin – sunblock is not the way for me, after the research I’ve seen. I have a bald spot. So, the question is – when does Senna wear a helmet, and when does he choose not to? (Because it is a conscious choice based upon sound risk management and circumstantial functionality)
Group rides, pacelines, mountain biking, road racing, big city traffic, Boston especially, or anywhere that feels more like combat than a bike ride, and… to set an example for children.
HELMET NOT ON:
Riding to the cafe, or on quiet neighborhood streets. Towing a trailer slow, or riding ALL DAY or for many hours.
Basically, when you reach a certain skill level, which kids don’t have – no matter how much they think they do, you simply do not fall down by yourself at higher speeds. You might fall, as I still do, at zero knots or just faster, but once I’m a moving, there’s no falling. I focus on NOT falling as I go along, especially on long highway rides, where if I did fall, it would be into a ditch or some brush, and if I were hit by a car at 55 mph – what would a helmet do? Granted – I give credit to people who wear helmets all the time. This is not a bad or wrong choice. Conversely, I equate people who lecture and tell others to wear a helmet with anti-tobacco people. I’m someone who can’t stand the smell of cigarettes for two seconds, but I won’t ever tell people they shouldn’t smoke unless they’re my family. It’s a personal choice to hurt oneself or risk oneself – we have that right to decide.
Yes, I’ve heard the reasoning behind the law, and it’s the same over-controlling reasoning they won’t let us reach into dumpsters to get perfectly good organic fruit. That legal term: LIABILITY. There’s way too much emphasis on indemnifying everything these days. Same reason I’m REQUIRED to insure my pickup even if I only drive it once a month. I could drive it every day, so I’m charged insurance that is based on a ‘would-be’… just as if I COULD hit my head and incur a public debt because I can’t afford health care. But mandating everyone to wear a helmet is WRONG, I fight it, I will always fight it… first and foremost because available helmets are for ‘summer recreation’ and aren’t adaptable to all weather, and secondly because it infringes on my personal liberty as an adult in a way that doesn’t set well with me at all.
I agree with an under 16 or under 18 helmet law. These people haven’t been riding a bike for 25 years. The risk management part of their brains is barely developing. But for the law to tell me that at 35 years old I need to wear a helmet when its 42 degrees out and raining? Turning my bike ride into a paranoia every time I see a police car? This is why I spoke out at that Vancouver city council meeting, and why I disobey that law. It’s right across the mighty Columbia from Portland, and there’s no sign to greet you as you cross the bridge:
Helmets are mandatory in Van-shit-hole.
Portland’s traffic is far more fast and furious than Vancouver’s ever will be, so why the law?
Because this is WASHINGTON – and if you don’t want someone telling you you need a license to wipe your ass, don’t live here. It’s the most ridiculous bureaucratic fuck-stick place, but I love riding all year and I love GREEN. Conclusion: Wear a helmet if you want, and don’t if you want. Don’t judge others for making their own choices that have little or no effect on YOU.by
Well said. It’s my cranium bucket. I choose what I do and nothing more. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone’s got one.
How about seatbelt laws? LittleJar are you for them or against them?
Hear, hear. My position exactly.
The social cost of people “choosing to put themselves at risk” is unacceptable. This has been demonstrated with crystal clarity for motorcycle helmets and automobile seat belts. Wear your fucking helmet.
By the way, I run a “doo rag” skull cap sort of thing under my fancy-pants, holey crabon blah-blah helmet. It wicks the sweat away and keep the sun off my cranium.
And furthermore, I think I’ll go for a ride again today. In the cold rain.
Oh, and Mr. “once I’m a moving, there’s no falling,” I know a guy who was descending a mountain pass and the weldment failed between his head tube and down tube. Keep the rubber side down, y’all.
If the city wants to buy me an oversize helmet to fit over my wool hat, I’ll wear it. Otherwise, their stupid law can fuck off.
My opinion on motorcycle helmet laws? It’s motor vehciles – faster, more prevalent, and more entangled in PI law, which I was taught about. This is where the liability factor is an issue. It’s very stupid to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Also true for seat belts, but clearly – the focus should be on punishing people who are found to be reckless and irresponsible rather than making everyone comply with Big Father Government’s rules. If you’re ripping around downtown Seattle or Portland or even Montreal without a helmet, you’re being stupid. But when I’m tooling around on the bike path or my neighborhood? Close to zero percent chance of falling and even closer to zero percent chance of falling on my head. Those hands get right in the way fast. I forgot to mention – why no law that says we must wear gloves? It’s gloves that are the first line of defense in a crash, not the helmet. If you’ve crashed enough times you know that.
At the heart of the problem is this: Not everyone thinks. In fact, so few people think that it makes us thinkers miserable to live among non-thinkers. We are known for the collective stupidity of doing the same thing for a long long time even long after we realize it’s the wrong thing – like keeping Cannabis illegal. A safe and helpful medicine is off limits while deadly narcotics are prescribed for pain management – just yesterday I saw a guy in a wheelchair who was comatose and his urine was running down the chair’s equipment – we see what pills do, but we keep on pushing them on people. This is not a relevant analogy to helmets, just to the stupidity of compliance without questioning and without thinking. Here I sit with my arm in incredible pain, could sure use some cannabis, but I have to wait for a doctor to say it’s OK first. And I say: Shouldn’t have been outlawed in the first place, look at the damage this has done… and I’m seen as a radical for saying so. No, just a thinker.
Mikey – in 1988 I was poor and I rode a Huffy ‘mountain’ bike that I bought for $60. Riding in the woods, the stem snapped off and I could have been dead at 17.
Today, I got fillet brazed Reynolds 853, forged 7000 series aluminum, and titanium composing my front end.
I’m all for destroying and outlawing all shitty bikes – but the law isn’t about saving lives, in case you haven’t figured it out. They do a good job of making it sound that way… but it’s actually about protecting property, profits, and people with power… that’s IT. Wake up to reality.
Hey this is sorta a response to Judi thrashing me for saying that I “sometimes think helmetless riders are poseurs.” I mean, that’s not too crazy, we’ve all thought it from time to time, am I right? Maybe not even for a helmet. Maybe you thought it about the presence or lack of some other piece of attire. Whatever.
I’ll tell you this: as one MD poster on this blog, Anesthesiology and Critical Care, it is absolutely MY fucking business to call people out on not riding with helmets. In fact, if I didn’t say something, wouldn’t I be failing to uphold the ethical underpinning of the gift society has given me in allowing me to become a physician? If I failed to say something?
I ride a bike to work. I ride a bike to race road and cross. I may not be littlejar with the skills, but I consider myself a step above the average Joe too. Wisdom in this debate centers on 3 facts:
1.) the data on helmets is un-fucking-equivocal that they prevent injury, prevent minor injury from being serious
injury, and decrease morbidity and mortality. No one argues this.
2.) as with auto accidents, the majority of cycling trauma occurs within a short (1 mile) radius of the home. Now you could argue that’s simply because most freds don’t ride any farther, or that statistically children are more frequently injured and make up the majority of ER trips, and you wouldn’t be incorrect. But you can also extrapolate from that that a subset of people- even experienced people, leave the home and have something unexpected happen.
3.) head injured people- even those with insurance- use public funds, our tax dollars. While a lot is made in the press and the political circus about “private versus public” healthcare, the fact is that they are inextricably linked. Any pragmatist will admit this. Like you, I am happy to pay into a system that protects our citizens, but I would argue that it’s everyone’s responsibility not to waste that priveledge. And so LJ- you’re right, if a car tags you going 50, you’re gonna have injury that a helmet won’t prevent. But it you have less injury- specifically, less head injury, statistically your recovery is expected to be shorter and more complete. That means a little less strain on the rest of us, on john q public. Doesn’t that make it your responsibility, as a contributing member of society?
We make a lot out of easy decisions sometimes. The easy decision is to wear a helmet. Do it because you want to express solidarity. Do it to set an example for the kids. Do it so the people who don’t know you and your thoughful motivations don’t chalk you up as an idiot. Do it because maybe you’ll save your own bean. But seriously, the intensive care units at harborview medical center (that serves you, littlejar) are filled with people who thought they were hella pro when they went out the front door that day. Maybe some couldn’t back it up, but we don’t have instant replay, and no one gives a fuck anyway when you’ve got a tube down your throat and half your cranium is removed to relieve the swelling on your brain.
The stark absence of a bicycle rack in front of DSHS – the social services agency tasked with granting benefits to the poor, spells out the insanity of this area I am here in – Mt. Vernon, just 60 miles north of lovely Seattle. As soon as I get off the highway I’m greeted by the most depressing shit hole of a place – so many places like this in America; the medium size cities that are stuck in anti-progressive, non-thinking lifestyles. Urban professionals are loathe to even give a shit, and I can understand why. They ride a bicycle by choice and don’t realize their example is missed by the poor who are shuttled away in apartment complexes miles and miles from the city. As long as the poorest of the poor drive cars, we got a nightmare to live with.
04 Mikey: comparing motorcycle helmets and automobile seat belt effectiveness to bicycle helmets is senseless when you speak about using your bicycle to go from A to B, cool ‘n’ easy.
My father, grandfather, uncle biked regularly – at least once a week – covering the last 60 years. They were fine without a helmet just as most of the population of Denmark, Netherlands, etc.
littlejar said it right : if you compete and you push yourself/your bike to the limits : wear a helmet. Otherwise just take it easy and don’t harass people who don’t.
From the helmet wear promoting association of WABA (http://www.bhsi.org/limits.htm):
“The typical bike crash involves a drop to the pavement. The important energy in that crash is supplied by gravity, not by forward speed. Although forward speed can contribute some additional energy, the main force is the attraction of gravity, and the impact severity is determined by the height of your head above the pavement when the fall begins.”
Now this is crap.
“If you have the misfortune to impact head first against a bridge abutment at the bottom of a screaming 55 mph downhill, your helmet will not prevent a head injury. That is not very important, since the rest of your body will be mush anyway. Fortunately that very seldom happens. Most of the cases where the helmet’s limits are exceeded involve crashes with cars. Every rider understands that it is very important to avoid being hit by a car.”
Instead of expanding the above, think it over in the light of the above cited paragraphs, when does a helmet really protect? And how the unfortunate fellow bikers listed in biker down posts go? Falling “spontaneously” or hit by a large motor vehicle?
But doctor – realize this: The war on stupidity can never be won. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that with the absence of a law requiring helmets, there would be the close to the same number of people not wearing them than if there is a law. The cops don’t want to enforce shit on bicyclists, and they shouldn’t. My point is – can’t control everybody – and I turn to you and ask in this lively debate, so why does it cost SO FUCKING MUCH to visit a hospital (in America)? Could it be…. the INSURANCE industry?
Put your helmet on and go donate your time at a childrens hospital where they have more important things to fight for. If you skip the helmet, buy a lot of insurance so I do not have to pay for lifetime care for you if a life altering injury occurs because you have a hard on about no helmets.
lj, just because someone says some stupid shit, doesn’t necessarily mean you should delete it. are you afraid of someone being right? let the comments speak as they will. no offense to you by recommending this, either. there are persistant elements of rationale in your words, so don’t be so afraid to let the haters hate.
i’m with you on many things, i feel like i have to say. you shouldn’t let this shit razz you so hard, bro.
Hospitals are expensive places to run, littlejar. Evey piece of equipment that goes beep costs thousands of dollars. An anesthesia machine costs around $100,000. That, in turn, is because or legal requirements: if a machine, or a drug, fails and there is morbidity or mortality, a company will be on the hook for tens of millions of dollars. They need expensive testing and even more expensive lawyers to cover their asses in our litigious world. Extra tests are ordered, on occasion, for that same reason. A nurse costs $40-$80k a year, physicians $150k and up. There are people who manage the nurses. There are people who move beds and equipment. There are people who send out the bills. People who make food in the cafe and clean and sterilize surgical instruments, and who look at slides under the microsope in the lab to determine whether it’s gonorrhea or chlamydia that ails ya. There are people who order the scalpels and the breathing machines and the beds capable of holding 1,000 lb patients. There’s pharmacists who despense medications to the whole place. All those people are funded (paid) by only one revenue stream: what the patient pays. Now, prior to the downturn 12% of people didn’t pay their bills (no insurance and not covered by Medicaid). That’s now up to 16%. So in addition to the fact that for every patient there are 8 people working, mostly behind the scenes, on their behalf…in addition to that, your lovely local hospital has to just eat shit on 1/6th of it’s charges. Imagine a bike shop that just let 20% of it’s customers have the shit for free- especially if the shop had no say on whether that customer would get SRAM force or super record 11 when they walked in the door. Not a very successful model, is it? Well, those charges also get passed on to the next paying customer…and so on and so on…and then the ambulance brings in the uninsured, invincible 23 year old with a head injury…another million dollars in care that won’t be paid…. Sigh. But no matter, we’re in 100%. For you. Just like a good cop and a good firefighter, your local intensive care unit doesn’t give a shit about your pocketbook. No decision changes on it’s account. We do what you need to get you through.
I was looking for a statistic I heard years ago about emergency room visits on Friday and Saturday nights….might only apply to my Missoula, where a lot of young college folks tend to bike to and from bars. Basically it was something to the effect of 90% of bike related emergency room visits on Friday and Saturday nights are by drunk cyclists not wearing helmets.
I found this while looking:
And for good trivia measure:
Bagel Related Injuries (BRI) are the number one reason for hospital emergency room visits on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
So doctor, why is it that I can live my life without all that technology? How is it that I need this healing green herb to help me take a shit, or feel pain free for a while, and I don’t need the wonderful machines that go ‘beep’? How is it that we are convinced that we need to be in a high tech environment to bear life into this world, at such a cost? The highest cost being: A traumatic birth results in an imprint – for life, that life IS suffering. Traumatic births are possibly the #1 reason we can’t treat each other with kindness or feel love the way we should. I can’t even die without complying with rules and regulations and shuffling a few thousand towards the ‘death’ industry.
Remember – all that stuff is NEW. We were fine without it for a long long time. Poor health is caused by a poor connection with things that give life. Short life span and infant mortality did not exist because of lack of technology – it existed because of exploitation of people lesser, and on the other side of that coin, inbreeding and the perverse excesses of wealth. Ain’t different now! Allopathic medicine is wonderful at treating trauma, but it has done nothing to stem the pantheon of chronic disease – in fact, with all the money and technology we have in America, we have the highest rate of disease in the modernized world!!! Vast legions of highly intelligent people are brainwashed to believe in it, and questioners are kept out… pharmaceutical makers and medical gadget makers just laugh on their way to the bank.
First LJ, and I’m sorry I didn’t say it earlier, call me Dan. Second, it’s true that the philosophical balance is hard to attain. I would contest your assertions about a traumatic birth being the #1 cause of emotional/psychological/psychiatric ANYthing – although they can certainly be hugely impactful on an individual basis… and we have certainly improved both the quantity and quality of life for people in both chronic and acute disease categories. Keep in mind that both non-emergent surgery and antibiotics are largely post – WW II phenomena. It’s true that we have challenges, that sometimes we are over-reliant on technology. And I smiled at your observation that the nonthinkers make it difficult for the rest of us. And I think more provision should be made to figure out a happy medium with medical marijuana. We’re on a gradually improving path in medicine, it’s hard to argue otherwise, although sometimes the pendulum seems to strain on it’s hinges.
Dan-“Traumatic birth”? Is that like being poster boy for a prophylactic?
Lifespans compared with technological advances says a lot to me.
Like them or not, medical advances have reduced/eliminated a lot of the nasty stuff that used to kill us.
No herb or natural remedy is going to fix a shattered pelvis and return it to anyting close to the original condition.
Are we and overmedicated society, treating a lot of symptoms instead of causes? Sure. Have we also reaped some real benefits as a result of technological/pharmaceutical advances? Hard to argue against that.
As we cure some problems we will create more.
As for helmets, I wear one almost all the time these days. Getting better about it even for the quick round the block trips. I have seen enough stupid shit happen and realize that no matter how skilled I am, shit can happen. Like watching a friend crack his helmetless head in a driveway checking a brake adjustment. One concussion and dozens of stitches later he was back home. Fall was no fault of his own, nothing could have avoided it short of not getting on the bike in the first place. Not saying that you should wear a helmet if you even touch a bike, just saying, lightning can strike anyone, anytime. There are elements we can not control and foresee, and it would be arrogant to believe otherwise.
I won’t go around telling people they should wear a helmet, it is their choice as far as I am concerned. I do hope that if they bust it up they can foot the bill though.
mind your own business.
I agree with lj ??
Rod Sterling should be showing up anytime now.
…nobody & i mean nobody has ever tried to play GOD on this site like you, littlejar…nobody has felt the need since the inception, that i know of…
…on occasion, gianni or gnomer may have hosed down the boards when some clowntastic fool breached the on-line defenses like this past weekend but there have been seriously & searingly heated debates, rips, punches below the belt on so many different subjects…
…know what ???…the basic premise of “let’s agree to disagree” has always held up whether any other agreement was reached…
…littlejar…you have an erudite viewpoint on many subjects…i’ll repeat that loudly so you don’t miss it…“you have an erudite viewpoint on many subjects”…i, like others here, recognize that as a fact…got it ???…i’m acknowledging you & certain aspects of your intellectual capacity…got it ???…you ARE recognized, you have intelligence, okay ???…we’ve got that !!!…
…but you are not always right or you wouldn’t always be having these problems !!!…no one is always right, godammit…
…at the same time, you are so paranoia-caly (i think i made up that word) defensive about the fact that other people have their own opinions, that the comments degrade into this crap written above…
…you accept the responsibility of being a contributor to this blog & yet when there are thoughts expressed contrary to yours, no matter their nature, you not only accuse a person of berating, attacking & bullying you, but you respond by wishing this on someone, “I hope you die of cancer.” ???…really ???…
…& then the “high noon” thingy ???…
…you need to sit back & prioritize, pal…fucking seriously…
…& if you feel “bullied”, perhaps you want to feel “bullied”…‘duck’s back / water’, remember ???…
…you are not the face of drunkcyclist, littlejar…that was established long before you or i got here so stop trying to manipulate how others approach every subject…you are a contributor…you’ve been granted the privilege of being “one” of the faces on this site so accept that you can continue to contribute…we commentators are contributors also & there will be more attitudes down the line…deal with it intelligently…let it go…
…stop being so fucking paranoid, stop taking everything so fucking personally & understand that even your intelligent viewpoints cannot be taken seriously when you act so fucking “unhinged”…
..& littlejar, i’m not attacking you, i’m fucking defending your good aspects…
Funny…all the helmet convos started the day after I cracked my melon on a low-hanging branch. I wear mine. But I won’t tell you to wear yours. I WILL, however, refuse to ride with you if you aren’t wearing one. But that’s just me.
LJ, I understand that you have your pride and in that, you aren’t stoked when folks tell you what to do, but seriously man, lighten up. Electric Joe has got you on the ropes because you allow it. He is running you, because you indulge the fight.
You do what you want, and even though I’ve deleted one of your comments in attempt to quell, this place is generally a free speech forum, so get used to it and discover how your language can mitigate much hate, and how your ignorance of the rest, can extinguish it.
While you may take these “personal attacks” to heart, this is the web, so to say that the “talk is cheap” is an overstatement. The term Francis, was a ribbing. Laughable, but now it seems you are the one that can’t let it go.
Otherwise, nice words man. Helmets, as with abortion, anti-smoking and so on…, is an endless point of discussion…
You say you are about love. All I see is hate.
Oh, and I recently indulged in the hypocrisy of helmetless riding as my 3 year old son sat on the back of the xtracycle with his helmet, while I was on the front, captaining with only a baseball cap. It felt strange as I have been in a dilemma as to the best approach. I wand the freedom to ride without the implication of severe injury. He however, is too little to keep his big nugget from wobbling around should we go down, thus the protection. Myself? I think that in travels to and from downtown, a distance of about 500 yards, helmetless riding is acceptable. I mean, I’m not on the roadway in traffic, or on trails, but cruising at less than ten miles per hour. But, when discussing spontaneous situations that can happen, no distance is safe enough, I suppose. regardless, a fire engine stopped at a light adjacent to me, and I was lightly reprimanded for not having a helmet.
I think it is unfortunate that our society has been built around the car and with that, it necessitates excessive safety measures such as riding with a helmet at all times. In belgium, where bike paths are separate from motorways, the logic of helmetlessness is appropriate given the infrastructure. Maybe we’ll never have that here, but I can dream, and protest.
The idea that you simply don’t fall down on your own at higher speeds just sounds… optimistic, at best. I was with you [LJ] on the whole “it’s my life to take into my own hands” concept regarding legislation mandating helmet use, and then I got to that part (the part mentioning you don’t fall). Now you just sound delusional, and to be honest, that kind of takes away from your original argument. My first thought when I read that was Jens Voigt going down HARD last year in the TdF, while he was riding almost dead straight. And then I thought of the times I went down while riding in a straight line simply because of unseen bumps and potholes. The shit happens ALL the time. Perhaps you can handle the shit out of a bike… or maybe you’ve just been very lucky.
Not that I don’t think you should be able to ride without a helmet if you don’t want. I do it sometimes too, like for example if I’m riding half a mile up the street to grab some beer or a burrito or something. Anything more than that and I feel it’s just wise to put a helmet on. And in extremely cold weather? That’s a terrible excuse – highly ventilated “summer” type helmets are NOT the only helmets out there.
@sommerfliesby – this is why we’re picky about who we ride with. even my own coach who’s been racing 20+ years goes w/o a helmet sometimes. big deal. but i am the same way with drunks. i don’t hang with them either. it’s all good.
I agree with Dan. Like him, I work in critical care (Respiratory clinical specialist for adult critical care). I’m also a roadie. It’s not about society robbing some guy of his right to decide, it’s about who pays the hundreds of thousands for the long recovery of the brain-injured trauma patient. There are two primary scenarios: uninsured & insured. The uninsured shows up in the E.D. via ambulance, then goes to CT scan, then the OR, then the ICU for a long stay, then to the general floor, then to rehab. YOU & I pay for it because the hospital eats the bill but has to raise it’s charges for all services in order to stay in the black. Our insurance premiums go up. The insured patient goes through the same scenario & again YOU & I pay for it because again, premiums must go up. By the way, the same goes for smoking. Check out the medical cost of COPD and tobacco-related heart disease.
Gnome – you’re the cool kid at the party that came up with the funny thing. It was funny, and I even said so. I even ignored the first 6 or 9 times someone used ‘francis’ in referring to me. It’s not funny anymore, only disrespectful and lame. This asshole fuck, joe, (not his real name) has been running around clinging to this as his only way of referring to me, even basically ruining my best post in months. It started to piss me off. He asked “I wonder how many CHILDREN FRANCIS HAS RAISED” and I seriously want to kill this person now. I asked him to stop. It’s cyber-bullying at this point. He’s interjecting his ‘francis this’ and ‘francis that’ over and over ad nauseaum. Dude, fuck you for coming up with that. Seriously. You and Joe and everyone else don’t understand WHY I am hurt and angry over this, nor do you care. I have asked before and I ask now – stop the francis bullshit, and this fucker keeps calling me that, and not in a creative, funny, ribbing way – as though it’s my REAL NAME. People who don’t know where the joke comes from will think my name is francis. I’m not OK with this shit continuing. You started it, can you end it? Please???
So how do you eliminate a crazy maker who has nothing to contribute but cyber- bullying and shit stirring? HOW? I don’t see any solution to joe the electrician other to delete his fucked up comments. I have seen a pattern where things turn sour when he starts his shit. For some reason, he’s pissed me off more than anyone has in years. I’m OK with being picked on to some degree, definitely OK with differences of opinion, and will spew curses at times myself… but dude has been making fucked up antagonistic comments of no real weight or depth for so long, on every single post, not just mine. I understand that I’m giving in to it by responding this way but fuck man – how much abuse and bullying can a person take?? It’s like I’m in 8th grade again.
Hey. If it helps, ya’ll can stop calling lj Francis and call me that.
Tho at my age the name Achmed seems better suited for me.
Either name works.
Or any other name. No one here can call me anything worse than I’ve called myself over the recent years.
lj. bgw got it right. Duck and water. Live it. Or die alone.
Plz litterjar, share more. The more I (we) read, the more we are creepedout. So you got hazed at a party by the Gnome… Big deal litterjar. Rise up and shut your pie hole down. And I don’t know you but you fit the francis profile quite well. If you delete this post, I will eat you.
Dude – I did let it go. I let it go for weeks. Joe the electrician was the only one still referring to me as ‘francis’ long after the joke was worn out. I asked him to stop, and instead he increased his bullying. Now, where’s the mediation. Real feelings are really hurt now. He’s still bullying. I asked it to stop, he’s still doing it. What can I do to make it stop? I need y’all others to back me up – the dude is a drunk fuck who drives 100 miles a day and is not a cyclist – why does he have a right to fuck up everything I try to do?
“…why does he have a right to fuck up everything I try to do?”
The world is filled with people who only exist to mess with the minds of others.
Hence the numerous sayings…..duck/water…..sticks/stones…..etc.
Joe is a full time douchebag. It’s what he is.
Let it go man.
The nannies have convinced our children that cycling is dangerous. There was a time when almost half the kids would ride bikes to school. But the helmet nazis have conviced everyone that mearly throwing a leg over your bike is putting your life at risk. Now the percentage of kids who ride bikes to school is in the single digits. I look at the bike rack at my school and it’s pretty bare.
So now kids get rides to school and when they get home they sit on the couch where it’s nice and safe.
Those of you quoting emergency rooms stats and all the blah blah blah have doomed generations to be fat and lazy.
So is Francis still coming to Hagerstown next Sunday to kick my ass? Because I could use a good ass kicking; I’ll be perfectly honest with you.
kg – thanks for sharing, my thoughts exactly. Instead of progressing, we are RE-gressing… and becoming fearful rather than living life. I’ve seen kids breaking free and taking the middle of the street to ride the few blocks to school, and seen also the lines of cars of the parents driving their kids to school – people just don’t get it, those fumes we’re filling the air with are just as deadly in the long run as these incidents that we shudder to imagine and do our best to prevent.
What size of helmet do you wear now? What size of helmet do you need to in order to fit over your wool hat and have it still fit correctly? I want you be safe just in case of a crash. Let me know and I can get the guys at Giro to send you a few different ones for you.
Joe – I’m letting it go – right now. I don’t think you’re worth my time. I’d rather have a drink with you, if we ever do meet. Call me whatever you want, you are forgiven. I wasted half of my day being pissed at you, now I realize the stupidity of it. My bad! Oh and by the way… FUCK YOU.
times change, society norms & behaviour expectations change, it was not that many years ago when being drunk was considered a legitmate excuse.
There is not a person in the so called ‘civilised world’ who does not know that smoking/drinkingto excess/junk food/lack of exercise, is bad for them. The personal choice bit comes into it again. The rights of the individual vs the greater good of society.
What the fuck!!?? Francis is wimping out? That sucks. There’s a great bar right on the square.
just join in the big group cyber hug & let it go.
…“Dude – I did let it go. I let it go for weeks.”…nope…ya just hit on it again…
…“why does he have a right to fuck up everything I try to do?”…he doesn’t, except you keep insisting on letting him…
…“now I realize the stupidity of it. My bad! Oh and by the way… FUCK YOU.”…so what yer really sayin’ is ya didn’t learn a thing…
…water / duck, sticks / stones…betcha joe lets it go shortly after you do…if he doesn’t, won’t that high moral ground be an advantageous place to post from ???…
…wake up, lttlejar…you’ve turned into a button waiting to be pushed…
bobos in paradise…anyone?
shifting perspectives and norms
spent my youth building forts and catching air
…& snake ???…
…you’re not only a good, solid & clean bike racer but you’re a righteous guy…
…although i bet your offer, if accepted, will come w/ verbal qualifiers…
…hope i’m wrong…may grace & transcendence be thy reward…
Being “reckless” back in the day(1970’s, 1870’s, 1770’s, etc) meant you’re sorry ass died a quick death and the “greater good of society” was not affected in any way.
But the last 20-30 years, medicine has accelerated like a mofo.
So now if you run the risk and fail, there’s a good chance you live and cause the greater good to expend a shitload of money on you.
So old days and new days can’t be compared without that consideration.
That all said. I drink enuf to kill an elephant. I smoke like a fiend when I’m drinking. I wear a seatbelt in the car only cause it’s automagic. And I don’t wear a helmet riding a bike. And, oh yea, I cross in between and not at the green.
And apprently all of that makes me second class.
We’re all in this together.
From the twats at the bottem like me who malign ourselves. To the overly-educated and overly-correct MD’s who make a slip one day and fuck up the life of everyone in the room.
Fuck joe. Fuck lj. Hell fuck everyone.
Fat and lazy kids on the couch….. you’ve created them in the name of safety.
Helmets prevent injury, yes they do. But you can get injured anywhere. Since safety is most important, make sure your kids wear helmets when they ride around in the car with you. It’s the exact same logic, and considering that riding in the car is one of the most dangerous things people do it makes MORE sense.
fuck you too, I knew you cared.
Take that back or I’ll have to fly down there and thrash you thoroughly.
You guys have cold beer down there right ?
We have the finest beers known to man or woman, chilled or warmed to your specifications.
I do also know of a source for Fat Tyre down here if you get homesick.
Kids don’t ride bikes to school because they don’t have to anymore. Parents see a pedophile on every corner or something, because the numbers of them driving their kids to school is ridiculous in the areas I have lived. Personally, I think kids are lazier too. Why ride to school if you can be taken by mom or dad? More time to stay inside and play video games.
And if emergency rooms stats actually scared people away from dangerous activities then there would be a lot less fast food restaurants and the obesity rate would be lower.
and fuck me too.
Damn. Shit gettin’ nasty in here like back before election time when there was two sommerfliesbys. Big ups to el jefe for vouching for the real me back then…I appreciate it still.
fuck me as well.
Jar …last breaths: Cant screw my lid shut
Dr: Sorry contributory negligence, you die
Dr: Oh wait this is US your neighbors have to unwillingly cover your stupidity
Make a law against driving with flip flops and I’ll accept a law that says I have to wear a helmet. I know when to wear a helmet. I might become an old cyclist, you’ll see. Maybe I’m old already… sure feels like it when I’ve got carpal tunnel and arthritis bad.
Myth #1: Technology improves lives. It only complicates them.
Myth #2: Medicine is about saving lives and preventing disease. This is secondary to the money thing. You who are in the medical industry are doing your job, and it is about money. If the money wasn’t moving in certain ways, you’d not be doing it!
Myth #3: We all deserve to live long lives. This is the crux; Mother Earth did not design it this way, and she has her way no matter how much we try to control things. This age of human supremacy is ephemeral, though unprecedented on Earth. We’re made out of the same stuff that every other animal is made out of, but we are so ridiculously manipulative at life and detached from the Mother as to make it a sick joke… to the point where we pay money to experience primal and basic things at some camp or ‘retreat’ with some guide.
Let’s recognize how sick this sick society is and make it something different. Fake compassion is just as bad if not worse than aggression.
If I could put it into writing, and have it stick, I would say: Let me die. But, SmartJar – do you realize that the system gives us one and only one option in the scheme… let the money move, and let the debt grow. Someone or some few are making good money on this big debt, and taking away the debt is a bad thing to them. There are a lot of things we take for granted that are just absolute lies, and only through hearing a lot of points of views, analyzing them with a good processor (your smart brain) and finding what is REALLY going on do we see how fucked it really is.
We are an enslaved nation in a world of slaves with a few powerful string pullers and the free men among us are rare rare rare. Like Roman times.
go have a browse at:
click on the country links at the bottom, Swaziland, Zambia etc & look at the statistics.
I know a lot of theose countries personaly & technology, medicine & money would make a huge fucking difference to those stats.
Average life expectancy of 31.99 years ? in this day & age it’s a fucking crime against humanity.
Oops forgot, they neither have WMD or oil so there’s no reason for us to take an interest is there ?
uh, helloooo, snake!
can a brotha get a table dance? see post below…..
by the way, you’re really fucking nice. way to crack the mold. i crack helmets, snake cracks molds.
Dude, I’m so late to this party that I already missed it. Fuck it.
I’ll chime in (as I’m often prone to).
I’ve ridden many, many times without a helmet. I can’t even begin to count the times.
Then, one day, I woke up in the hospital. I was wearing a helmet that day, on a road ride.
I never even saw the car coming.
So, for me, now, after that, I put on a helmet. Seeing my wife’s crying eyes look down on my as I was taped to a back board waiting for the MRI scan is not something I care to repeat. Would the helmet have prevented my back injury? No. But, I really don’t like to think about what my head would have looked like without it. I believe I am here today because I was wearing a helmet.
Others may choose not to. And, frankly, I’m not what I feel about it – the long string of points and counter points presented thus far; it’s my choice, it’s society’s burden, it should be law, the state should stay out of it, etc.
But, I will say this, I never saw that car. And it knocked the living shit outta me.
Just remember that you only have one shot at this. And it’d be a god damn shame to let some drunk idiot take it away from you because of pride, hubris, or just proving some fucking point about “choice”.
That plastic lid can save your life. Don’t overlook that simple point.
The short life expectancy of people in Africa IS a crime against humanity. Sure as shit. Sure thing – but look at what CAUSED it, not to technology for a fix. Those people were colonized under the Maxim gun and the strap of white rule. They forgot how to exist in their own element. They were taught an un-natural way of existence: Private property and money economics. yes, this shit existed in Africa before whites but it was not the same dynamic. There’s a natural cycle to things, and a natural existence to every species and sub-species, including the different groups of people. There’s lizards that exist in places I’ll probably never go that would bite me and I would die. But a native of that area would live.
Snake is a nice person. Snake-yoga!
Did someone say table dance?
LJ – Horseshit !!
Yes, colonisation did bad shit but a lot of these people still live like their forefathers did, small rural villages, subsistance farming, (shit it’s drought, bad crop, no food, fuck it’s a flood, no crop, no food, let’s hope that our leaders haven’t sold all the foreign aid supplies to buy more weapons or build bigger palaces).
Rural villages, bad roads, little to no infrastructre, minimal medical aid, no sanitation, (yep, lets just go crap behind the hut) I could go on & on but technicaly they are living your ‘ideal’ low tech mother nature loving lifestyle.
My point, it’s a fuck side different to actual live in one of these place than to ‘choose’ to live in a clean, green environmentaly friendly way in the USA or NZ where is things go to crap theres a safety net, in Africa there’s no safety net.
“Otherwise, their stupid law can fuck off.”
“Today, I got fillet brazed Reynolds 853, forged 7000 series aluminum, and titanium composing my front end.”
LJ— well I guess that sums it up. BTW, the frame that failed was hand-made in Italy. Metal fatigues with age, it is a fact. So I guess you throw away your bikes after ten years? How old is that land shark? When was the last time you x-rayed or eddy-currented the welds? Ride safe, man.
Danimal #08 wins. Right on, brother. See you out there.
“The typical bike crash involves a drop to the pavement.”
Kaszi— or a three-ton “luxury sport utility vehicle” piloted by an angry, distracted driver. Ride safe, man.
Yep, I must need an NDI inspection on my bike frame. Or, I should just wear a helmet. The US Is #47 for life expectancy. Surely all of the energy we are consuming and the high tech medical equipment available to us isn’t doing it. We’re #47! That is sick and sad.
Thanks, Big Jonny for interjecting some humor into this serious conversation. To the rescue, again.
In ma nature there is no safety net. Little birdies get eaten while the mom is away to find food. What makes HUMANS so fucking important?
“So doctor, why is it that I can live my life without all that technology?”
LJ— who was it that used the phrase, “young and dumb?”
Danimal wins. Keep the rubber side down.
And we’re #17 , (hyah, nyah) plus as Kiwis we’re allowed to go live & work in Australia #7 , (so when I’m hitting the limit, I’m on the plane, instant extension)
Okay, Snake in a tie with Danimal. Can I fill your water bottles, gentlemen?
Fill them with what? And are they steel, glass, or LDPE bottles?
why is that every damn post LJ is involved with is like that accidental peek up fat chicks skirt….
you see it, wished you hadn’t, but can’t help looking again just to confirm what you saw, and could it really be like that….
Like Moby says in one of his songs: “The truth is not that comfortable.”
Your stance is composed of your tangent on the world. It is only your version of truth designed to fulfill its makers desire to be right. There is no one truth. And Moby pretty much blows.
Still, glad you’re getting over the stingy part, LJ.
I need to go get my tin foil hat re-sized
I agree with you, Gnome, to a point… my truth and your truth isn’t THE truth, as how connected to the real truth we are is inversely proportional to how much we attach ‘want’ or ‘faith’ to what we believe, and directly proportional to how observant and objective we are. Another quote, and from a guy whom I don’t believe everything he says, but this one is golden:
“We dance around a ring and suppose, whilst the truth sits in the middle and knows.” – S. Hawking. There’s a photo somewhere of him as a kid, long before his crippled drooling self, about 9 years old, leaning against a bicycle, looking BADASS. I want a poster of that photo.
Damn dude, just man up and acknowledge that going without a helmet is not the brightest thing to be doing. Regardless, stop blaming it on stupid shit. (Like the fact that you can’t wear it over your hat! That would be funny if it wasn’t so dumb.) Stop saying you don’t need one because you are a good rider. And stop getting drawn into debates you can’t win.
That plastic lid can save your life. Don’t overlook that simple point.
In BC we have had a bicycle helmet law for many years now I don’t think it helps. I’ll give an example. I used to do bike maintenance and safety clinics for kids. We would look over their bikes for safety issues, ie. loose grips, frayed brake cables, brake pads cutting into tires sidewalls, worn and bent rims…etc. Pretty much every kids bike we checked had safety issues. We would also check helmet fit. In one particular case we had 15 of 16 kids whose helmets didn’t fit. Loose chin straps that allowed the helmet to fall off, helmets way too big…etc. As well we had two bicycle police officers, neither had a proper fitting helmet. Many of the parents also had ill fitting helmets. So we have a law that requires helmets enforced by people who don’t know how to properly fit one. Point of story if you’re going to wear one or make your kid wear one make sure the f*cking thing fits and is properly adjusted, it’s jewelry otherwise as pretty much all of us know. Don’t know how? Go see your friendly neighborhood bike mechanic and get set up.
Bought my first helmet almost 30 years ago. Any of you old enough to remember the Bell V1 pro? Probably not.
From the perspective of those without all the drawbacks of our evil technology, littlejar, I know a few Dominicans, Haitians, and people from the great continent of Africa who would gladly trade places. The luxury you forget is the CHOICE that you have. I tend to agree with you that it is, at the very least, ironic that we pay for our adrenaline rush, for shock, for fear, for excitement in these good ol’ united states. But we can say who, when, and where. When a neighboring clan, or a mamba, or malaria comes through your door, and you get to experience that terror for real, for 24 hrs a day, and when the pain that goes along with it is real…
As an example of how I agree with you, but the impossible decisions…I went to inland southern Belize to work for 6 weeks in a clinic that tries to provide basic care, year-round, to the Maya descendents. Now these villages: primeval. Accessible by walking paths through native rainforest. Thatch huts. Language both Spanish and Native, mixed. They slept in hammocks. One room, fire ring in the middle, they breathed the smoldering ember-smoke all night. Corn tortillas the dietary mainstay. And they cut the forest. All day, they cut it down. And burned it, sold what they could, turned the rest into farmland for their crops.
I saw a baby one day with guillan-barre. Look it up. Suffice it to say an inciting viral illness, like a cold, can make a baby paralyzed. In the early stages, you don’t know how bad it’s going to get…so we asked the family if they would accompany us to a hospital in Belize city. They wouldn’t. They refused. Despite our good rapport with them, they accepted infant illness, and mortality. And they wanted to have roads to their town, to cut and burn the forest, and they wanted to drink coca-cola.
I realized, then, that I didn’t know fuckshit about anything, because it takes a bigger man than me to tell people who have nothing that they can’t slash and burn their forest. That they need to use “alternative techniques” -techniques that could leave them without food for all they know- and that infant mortality from treatable illnesses was unacceptable. Now, yes, the broad swath of human progress may be toward those things, just as it may be toward more bikeable cities and less dependence on fossil fuels. But to that one family, and in that one little town, who of us can tell them “how to live?” They know more about life than any of us- probably more than most of us want to know.
It’s not camp. This whole “getting back to nature” bullshit fails to recognize that. Pain is pain, real, and it doesn’t end when the roller coaster stops. And sometimes a child dies.
In the country of the free and the brave, it is funny to see how many people think that biking is soooo dangerous that helmet wear should be mandated and the personal liberty of choosing to wear or not to wear be overridden.
At the same time possession of firearms seems as an unalienable right even though there are 100000 blessed/killed by firearms in the US annually. I wonder how is this less expensive for the society than few cyclists not wearing helmets that do not really protect in case of collision with a motor vehicle?
Go on and live your little paranoid lives guys, heads up littlejar!
i am expediting my tinfoil hat refit.
I’m pretty sure somewhere in the constitution there is a helmet clause, along with assault rifles, low yield thermo-nucular devices and thongs.
Stand on your false pulpit of liberty while people die and have catastrophic injuries, all in the name of liberty.. Seriously, that is such a damned lame argument. You have to be joking..
Ooh, my tinfoil hat is ready…..
What is the tin foil hat for? Does it block microwaves from entering your skull? Would they let you on the plane wearing tin foil hat? Or are you just vogue-ing in a Devo sort of way?
I’m in the field for a couple of days and this shit blows up?! This is uglier than politics… sfb, thanks for the props. Joe, if we ever cross paths, I’ll buy a round as well. That goes for anyone here.
We’ve had a bunch of heated arguments here, but when it gets to this point we might as well be arguing about whether letters are better than numbers. Step back and breathe people. I’ll check on y’all tomorrow…
el jefe, beer good. Me like.
to quote FLC:
“I never take myself too seriously
‘Cause everybody knows fat birds don’t fly”
and why not throw in a little:
“I am always optimistic about human relations
I got more friends than my man Peter Gatien
We’re always fun loving, so don’t start bugging
If your girlie comes up and starts kiss-kiss-kissing and hugging”
LITTLEJAR (francis) – why would you establish and contribute to the perpetuation of such a mindless posting? you suck and should be denied from ever posting at dcdotcom ever again.
Now if anyone here is a better rider than Mike Aitken please speak up. But when one of the most talented riders on the planet goes down on something he’s done countless times and nearly loses his life that should be a wake up call for the rest of us. And please think before anyone makes an ill informed statement regarding bmx, its not punk kids riding little bikes. The skills gained from bmx easily crossover and have allowed many former/current bmx riders to excel at mtb’ing.
Dr. Doom – Evil medical school, I hear it’s a bitch. Kinda like Johnson and Wales? Glad I’m on the side of good. I don’t give a flying fuck what you think. No one else does, either.
Keep it up, you’re doing good.
But please keep it in perspective…
I bow to you.
Seriously, you’d know all about the Swedish Truck Paradox in Africa.
I’m just grateful that there are people like you around.
oh you care little francis. it’s impossible for you not to. how about i extendthe electrician’s offer but instead i’ll come to you for some serious face pounding… i bet i can make you cry…
Well, a threat for a threat – are you done yet? (as in, quit pretending you’re a couple of people. Lame.) I’m done caring. Just give it up. You’ve said some gross, ugly things (Mr. D, Dr. Doom, whoever else the fuck you are) but you aren’t a threat to me, and I’m not a threat to you. And I’m not, never was, never will be a marine. (that was a joke, a parody) I was just ripped off by two ex-marines in a row, so I’m through doing business with them too. God bless the Corps and all that, I’ll just give up the tasteless military parables. So what other assumptions do you have today?
“And I’m not, never was, never will be a marine.”
OK. LJ. I admit to being a general over all dick towards the World.
But…..I make you look like a bucket of amoeba shit.
Things change tho.
I’m still working on that change.
come on LJ francis, ugly things have been said… are your feelings hurt? where the fuck have you come from? seriously, i’ve been following this blog since the summer of 2003 (i think, maybe it was 2002). who the fuck are you and what qualifies you to post your useless tripe here? dude, you’re bringing down the DC ship. littlejar = devolution. please, cease and desist…
Would you guys seriously knock off the fist fight crapola already? You’re not going to drive across the god damn country to get in a punch up. It just isn’t going to happen. Disagree, tell each other you suck it, and move on to the next argument.
your choice to wear a helmet or not is a reflection of your own self worth. it by no means makes you a pussy to wear one (or your child). if you love life and enjoy your days on this ride then you should wear a helmet. that is the most basic and underlying argument on the subject. so do what you want. your actions, if well thought out will speak of how you view yourself. what do ya think, ya got something to live for? then it sure doesn’t hurt to wear your skid lid.
“A man who hasn’t found something he is willing to die for is not fit to live.”
What do you live for LJ? i just hope it isn’t to piss into the wind on a helmet law.
LJ just lives for piss, period end. Nothing else, well besides felching another brothers’ milkshake. How are ya, francis?
Ain’t what you said about me, creep-o. Hey, where did fun old Electric Joe go? He turned into Mr. D? Still the only one calling me francis, and you’re still the only one making yourself into a real winner. This isn’t a fist fight, this is cowardly bullshit. Both ways. I admit to getting sucked into something stupid and pointless. You taunted me, I wasn’t long enough on patience. At what point do YOU win? OK – let’s just say, at comment #100, YOU win. I don’t feel one bit bad about it. Go home with your victory. You’ll get yours someday, if you ever have the nerve to harass people in person as you do so cowardly online… hiding behind multiple personalities. Sick-o.
not hidin’ behind nothin’… and not harassing, just exposing poseur posteurs… so we don;t have to spar (traditionally) yet expectedly (ride bikes). francis you at sea level? dis guy at 7,000 ft +. i’ll beat you anywhere on anything das big ring. and as said earlier… i want to roast but not eat what’s left of your pasty pussy ass…
I tire of you, D.
lj, let it go. Grow up. Life is too short and too stressful to hate people like you do. You’re the one keeping this going (seriously, 100 comments on this?). It’s not like you’re real name is “littlejar” anyways. Sometimes (and by sometimes, I mean most of the time…) we don’t get to choose our nicknames. Embrace it. Own it. Quit letting this get to you. Look at how many people YOU have pissed off during your time here. Give it a rest. You’re a front-pager (somehow???) show that you’re above the shit the rest of us yahoo’s throw around. It’s not worth fighting so bitterly with people you actually have a bit in common with.
A) The FRANCIS shit is boring.
B) Pissing off Littlejar for the sake of pissing off Littlejar is FUCKING BORING.
C) Today a supermodel pledged to run naked through the streets of Ascencion as a tribute to her country’s soccer team. Not a single goddamn comment/joke has been made about it on this site. Get in the game, folks, and stop being FUCKING BORING.
i’m pretty sure i can take both of you retards… so squash this beef and move the fuck on.
D2, yes, yes, YES!
I’m with the Colonel on this one.
I’m in agreement with moving on but I have to say LJ, claiming to be a marine & then saying that you weren’t & it was a parody is pretty disapointing & I think disrespectful to all those who have put their arse on the line.
I did suspect from some of your quotes but I really did not want to to keep the flames burning
Only if you haven’t been there
D2 @ 104, get busy, son! You got the Engrish degrees!
I think the rest of you dudes need to enter a cock sucking contest. You know, see who’s a real man?
Gnone, I know who I am & I know where I’ve been.
I don’t make a big noise about it but I really don’t like people who pretend to be something that they are not.
I’m right here, lj. Been pretty busy the past couple days saving the world from inadequate power distribution. No one ever said being a superhero was easy.
112 posts? Dang!
…inferring you were a marine when you were not is very sad business…i abhor war but i am insulted that you would ever make the inference that you were one of a select group of men & women who are willing to lay their very lives, i repeat, their lives, on the line. littlejar…
…if that’s what you see as a joke or a parody, i’ll say this again…you need to prioritize, littlejar…you need to sit & think about this & a lotta other things…
…i have never been in the military & although i was born in canada, i have several generations of family members who have served proudly in the u.s. marine corps…that they would be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice speaks strongly to me…
…i have a nephew, who, after 2 tours became prominent in “iraq veterans against the war”…he went off to make a difference & in serving his time, he became aware that he was serving what he felt was a fraudulent rationale so he turned things around…
…you wanna post here to make a difference, lj ???…then sit down, shut the fuck up until you learn to prioritize…the defensive tripe you spew at times when people insult you completely defuses any good you think you contribute…
…you have greatly insulted earnest people more deeply than you seem to have the capacity to realize…time to wake up, pal…time to wake the fuck up…
…gnomer…i heard if ya suck a dick just once it doesn’t mean yer gay…
…“not that there’s anything…blah, blah, blah…”…
…& no, if yer askin’…
Your nephew, man has my full respect.
He has more balls than I had.
…let’s hope littlejar understands…
…but ya, me too, hurben…
…i agree…w/ both parts of your statement…
D2, #104 part C. ..more please, inquiring minds *need* to know. Thanks.
Also, Danimal; Thanks for the rational, clear and solid information presented without brinksmanship or vective. Your contributing points are substantial.
Hopefully your message was appreciated by the intended recipient, but I’m not hopeful.
As is so often the case when in a room spilling over with drunks the sober people are ignored, even if they’re calling attention to stuff like curtains on fire, gas leaks etc.
old sauce Nutella… That’s what started this shitstorm…
Just don’t badmouth the Corps. No, I never served. But the Marines I’ve been lucky enough to know taught me stuff. I’m just sayin’ don’t badmouth those guys. Please?
I’m with Joe, I’ll not bad mouth ’em. Bring ’em home.
But not until the job is done. Whatever the fuck that is these days.
Do or die!
And goodnight, Chesty, wherever you are.
no shit el jefe. that’s the point… expose the shitbag that is littlejarhead. he’s put more vile tripe into this otherwise stellar site in such a short amount of time. i want to out the motherfucker; expose him and his agenda; and rat the littlejarbitch out. serious business i know, but stupid is as stupid does…
No way, keep this going. With Biggie and Tupac dead (supposedly) we really need a good East Coast/West Coast rivalry. So, from now on the 2 of you can only insult each other in a rap format.
http://vimeo.com/8812024 Knowing how to crash is also a good skill to have. ie: opening segment of this vid. Damn Aussies!!
nyhc00, all can think of after your comment is this:
BJ – that video is so old and has appeared on this site many o times. Freshin’ up mister DC.
More rap, less crap. I’ll take a recycled video vs. this overbeaten dead horse thread. Hell, I’ll take a stick in the eye…
or a gg video or three
Holy fucking shit I leave the computer alone for a day and this thread gets longer? First order of business:
Joe the electrician, I owe you an apology. You aren’t posing as some other commenter. This has been confirmed.
I’ve been deeply involved with the rig. Mission accomplished on getting it to run. The engine sounds *perfect*. I have to re-wire all the lights, the horn, and other switches. I have to lay in a fucked up position on a steel plate to reach the fuse box, remove it, and put it under the hood where I can service it. Let’s talk DC, let’s talk marine solar electric, wheels and keels. Wheels and keels. Mastering, not being mastered by, machines. Knowing the taser from the 9mm. Knowing how to act, not react.
The history of the Marine Corps is interesting. I say this because there had been a clear line of difference between a soldier and a marine, but in functional essence, that is the same, when these ‘marines’ (think, sailor-rifleman) today are just out with the same mission that the army has.
In the early days of our navy, the term ‘top marine’ came from one of the crew members being skilled enough to climb to the top of a waving mast and hit a target with a rifle. It’s a challenge, of course, so the marines are always going after that which is a challenge. The crucible.
In my marine corps, I am a marine body of one, a body of water in a world of work. There are always challenges, always crucibles. Few days off. Circumstances may bring harder work. “Run away the soreness” is one of the mantras I sometimes conjure to keep me going.
But this is not war for me. I had thought that way in the past, but I am at peace within my struggle and ready for war. War can arrive here, people – it can be swift and brutal, or it can be a smoldering stagnation; the US military might that is imminently on the decline.
At 22 I was convinced to join the military. It was an economic decision, so you can call me an example of the ‘poverty draft’ I did not know what I was in for – that is, in essence: External power with internal powerlessness. You see, you’re given status as as servicemember, responsibility, weaponry, tools, what have you… but every night when you go to sleep, as the sound of aircraft engines lull you to sleep, you know that you traded your sovereignty for a fucked up contract where you give much more than you get.
In prison, the opposite exists. I daresay prisoners, at the root essence, have more integrity than soldiers. You are internally powerful and externally powerless. No one volunteered for jail. You’re there AGAINST your will, and that is not a violation of one’s inner guide.
There’s no way I would have stayed in longer than four years. I was ready to be a free man, with the free choice to go where I want WHEN I want, with whatever means I have – alone if necessary, ready to die if necessary, to hopefully die an in an honorable manner on my feet, on my wheels, or at sea.
A marine body of one.
Jesus Christ Little Jar,
You don’t get it, you appear to be incapable of getting it, it’s like you live in a parallel universe
You dishonour brave men & women by lying, yes lying, by pretending to be one of them, admit it & then happily stroll in here with an even more fucked up take.
You are frankly fucking delusional.
And then as the ultimate insult you state that a criminal, yes a criminal, (in the US & NZ there are no prisoners of conscience or political prisoners), has more integrity than a soldier.
You fucking dare propose that some low life scumbag who breaks the laws of society has more integrity than someone who is prepared to lay their life on the line to protect that society!!
I’ve tried to support you on occasion here when I felt that you were being unduly harassed but you have just proven to me that you are the lowest of the low.
I’m out of here, whilst I support freedom of speech I really don’t want to be part of a group that allows such as you free rein to post shit like this. This is not as intelligent or scathing a post as I’d have like to have done but frankly I’m struggling to find the words to express my anger without just totally losing it.
I’ve met a lot of great people here & I’m honoured that they welcomed me, thank you all.
Take care out there people, (not you Little jar, I don’t give a crap what happens to you).
Little Jar @ 129. That’s the best piece of writing you’ve posted. Superb. You’ll hear no more Francis from me.
…sorry but i agree w/ hurben…
…i still see delusion & maybe a missing gene or two in littlejar’s makeup…
…what i also see is an inability to personally address the concerns of others directly without losing it, so once again you traipse off in a different direction, feeding us claptrap to justify those inabilities, all the while ignoring basic sociological tenets…
…gnomer sees “superb”…i see “sad”…
littlejarhead is clearly a few bubbles off of level…
Oh, it’s a fine ramble. Writing for writing’s sake. I gave up any need to derive value from this thread days and days ago, when the threats of killing each other reached that crescendo of sincerity. Horrible. From then on, there has been no value in keeping with the context here. None.
The evolution of how this banter has been played out in order to goad emotional reactions from the players involved is the true sadness of the affair. Yea, I was a brief part of that. I digress. But then the greed that results from te freedom that anonymity provides, showed once again, just how primal our distinguished species is when it has no rules to follow.
Smash the window. Grab the T.V.
More interesting is that this thread still has energy here, at post number 134. I hope that behind the chuckles, some value has been gleaned. For me, it is the fact that we all see our own delusion. And who threw-out the first sociological tenet? Was is Little Jar? Was it Electric Joe? So be it. The bait was taken and all of us are the fools.
Yes, just say’n.
gnome, doesn’t that mean D2 owes me 34 beers?
anybody see any riots in oakland last nite?
another cop got away with killing someone – UNFUCKING ARMED. fuck some shit up.
Hurben, I’ve heard this kind of thing before, but before you go attacking me, see what Gnome is seeing in this – a truth behind a lot of lies. We can differ on some opinions. I was hoping that my being honest would ring a bell. I say things conceptually and you take them literally, turn it around on me, as though I have to respond to a FOX news reporter.
I have to respond… I dare say there is only a false and constructed form of honor in going over to AFGHANISTAN or IRAQ and dying so that Halliburton’s shareholder’s dividends are safe once again.
Those people in uniform are not serving us. WAKE UP. They are serving the interests of the USA acting as a corporation, a cop, an enforcer, a resource grabber for the lion’s share. Even most marines know this because they see it. They go over there and see the shit, and go: “Holy shit the lies I’ve been fed – I can’t believe this C-fuck.” And that is one of the differences between a marine and a soldier. A soldier might come to the same conclusion, but half heartedly, because most soldiers are behind desks or have a cake walk job. YES, most. Marines are few, and work hard for their whole enlistment. They call it “The Suck” because of that.
If you are told a lie often enough, it becomes your truth. Proving this by showing that civilians that have an emotional reaction to the troops serving and use the word ‘support’ to describe it, it is shown to me that military members do not get fired up when I talk about these things. They know what I’m talking about! It’s the brainwashing of the citizen back home that is most dangerous, more so then the conditioning of the soldier. Brainwashing is very real, and nowhere is it more stark and known than in the military. I went through the brainwashing process. I was aware of it the whole time, I was ready for it, and was, yes, partially brainwashed. Coming out, I know a lot more about how fucked up and corrupt our system of power is than I ever wanted to know. I have made attempts to write about it, and not all of them here. You miss my point, Hurben – it’s not that a CRIMINAL has more integrity than a WARRIOR – not the case. You take my statement using “A” and insert “ALL” – some people in jail are innocent or just railroaded by a self serving revenue generating system of ‘justice’ – which, like the military, is systematic and not always based on its own principles. Not all prisoners are criminals, and not all SOLDIERS, MARINES, etc… are warriors. A good many them are just playing along to get some money to send to their families, and get medical care for ‘free’, and to have something other to do than sit around a trailer and drink. Yes, a good many military people are lazy at their core, and the reason they are in, serving, is because the internal discipline is not there and they need structure and order imposed on them. There’s a big ugly truth for you right there.
If we are to continue this conversation, I ask you to leave the table if you haven’t ‘served’ – that is, if you don’t know what that feeling is, that feeling of being property, not of having property but BEING property, then shut up and keep your misinterpretations to yourself.
An angry emotional reaction is just what the brain washers want. They don’t want you to stop and think about WHY – just feel it. Just yell “Drill baby drill!” at the top of your lungs at Giuliani’s speech. Just don’t THINK, whatever you do. Steer clear of the stuff that makes you think (cannabis) and numb that over-active brain with the widely available ALCOHOL.
Sociological tenets? Where are we? A fucking board meeting? No, we are here expressing words through text. Destructive, constructive, and benign. No, my friend – my level is spot on. I’m not sitting in front of this keyboard because I’m trying to be socially correct, pray tell who the fuck is? What I AM trying to do, is get some awareness out there, spread it around, maybe spur someone, anyone, to stop and think about what I’m trying to show in these words. We need anti-recruiters, and we need a school of not driving, and until we have these things, the brainwashing continues.
WAY TOO preachy for me. littlejar, put the sermon back in your jarhead. and lighten the fuck up.
Here we go, response 141, like the big aircraft C-141, filth spewer and machine mover, and at least 3 people will read it. Good enough.
I’m not going to have the last word. Someone else is, and it might be great and it might be just bullshit. Hurben – oooh ooh ooh ahh ahh ahh (bang chest and howl and display anger) It’s not just intelligence, because I could be just as smart and not educated. I wish I didn’t know the shit I know. It ain’t a conspiracy or controversy. It’s experience + those other two things (the IQ + education) that lead me to write what I’ve written.
There’s something stopping me from writing a book, and that is the reactions I know I’ll get including death threats. I’m going to publish my fire when I’m adequately ready to prepare for death. Dr. Slepian was shot while preparing dinner through a sniper’s bullet in his kitchen. When I go and question an entire way of life and if enough people see it, someone’s going to want to take me out. Until then, I’m obscure enough to be safe (I hope)
Again, the mission isn’t about me, right? Service before self. No, I’m not dangerous… I’m just a raving lunatic RIDE YOUR BIKE STOP DRIVING just a fucking wing nut, harmless of course GET OUT OF THE COMFORT GRAVE silly silly man, speaking nonsense YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, let’s pick on him WORK WILL SET YOU FREE.
Whoa! No critical words necessary. You are fucking crazy jarhead. some things should go unsaid (unwritten). Please DC administrators, cut this guy off! He’s bringing down the site.