Thank god for Stewart: I know the majority of DC heads hate up the political fronts, an I’m ceraintly in that sect as well, but when I see it spun funny, I cain’t not not share. Na wha i’m say’n? Happy friday part one:
First, the propaganda slam (and when you watch this, understand that there are a LOT of people who believe this shit is rational):
Let’s finish it off with a little satire:
November 6th, 2009 at 11:39 am
I wonder if Glenn Beck knows what he is saying is insane and does it for ratings, or if he really believes it. I am not sure which would be worse.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“I wonder if Glenn Beck knows what he is saying is insane and does it for ratings”
Rich— of course he does. It’s infotainment. The only people who watch a show like that are already believers. The TV producers work their demographic as expertly as possible and Mr. Beck says his lines the best he can. High fives, hookers and cocaine all around. Booyah!
November 6th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
John Stewart Somethingorother (Stewart is not his surname) has his nose so far up Dear Leader’s ass he dare not sneeze when the Kenyan son of a goatherder is brushing his teeth.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
dave— you come across as enough of an idiot that I know it’s best to ignore you, but hey.
T.R. Reid, _The_Healing_of_America_ (2009). The book has an extensive “bibliography,” (look it up) although I doubt you care about, you know, factual evidence over foaming-at-the-mouth spooage of willful ignorance. I dare you to read reid’s book and then bash health care reform.
The U.S ranks mid-pack among industrialized nations for life expectancy and infant mortality.
We rank DFL in “disability-adjusted life expectancy” (DALE), the World Health Organization’s most sophisticated actuarial model.
We rank #1— by a huge margin— for health care cost per capita (over 15% of GDP).
45 million (mostly poor) Americans have no access to medical care. The only nation that exceeds this number is India. Yay, USA! We’re better than India!
Basically, the anti-health reform crowd is absolutely wrong on absolutely every point. It amounts to sucking the cocks of mega-billion dollar, for-profit enterprises, and it’s stupid as hell.
November 6th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
ah, the old Dave is back… He must have switched back to his brand of paranoid-angry-white-man bourbon. Yeah Mikey, it’s best to ignore it. Dave wouldn’t read anything that wasn’t on the Glenn Beck reading list anyways…
November 6th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Maybe Dave’s real name is Glenn Beck….
November 6th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Goat-herders with Kenyan sons get such a bad rap. In my opinion, they have it all over goat-herders with Ethiopian sons. Or Nigerian sons. I could keep naming African countries all night, but I think I have clearly established my point.
November 6th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
what fit said, only SENEGAL. They have cool parrots and everyone speaks French.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:26 am
Mikey = win.
Just watched that and it made me tear up from laughter.
As for Dave, well he apparently doesn’t watch the Daily Show, because if he DID, he would see that while thee is more than ample fodder to rip on the right-wing loonies, he also has enough material to rip on people with (D) after their name… including the Pres.
But we all know he’s here to polish his trolling skills. Until mommy makes his grilled cheeze and his realm server is back online.
November 7th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Get over it, health car is not going to pass the senate so you all need to settle down. Obama has driven us so far in debt that we can’t afford any of his bullshit and people see it.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
“Obama has driven us so far in debt that we can’t afford any of his bullshit and people see it.”
kg— this is just too easy. Now pay attention. Today’s lesson: France.
France is the world’s healthiest nation, based generally on the standard actuarial tools and specifically the WHO’s DALE (disability-adjusted life expectancy) benchmark. DALE was developed in an attempt to measure “useful,” i.e., not disabled, life expectancy.
French health insurance companies insure every single citizen by law, yet operate with 1/4 (that’s one quarter) the overhead of U.S. health insurance companies.
The U.S. spends over TWICE as much per capita for health care than France, yet 45 million people are uninsured, without access to basic medical care.
The Bank of America did a study in 2006 that showed if the U.S. dropped its per capita health care spending from the current ~17% to the ~10% of France, it would save $600B per year.
That’s six hundred billion dollars a year… why, that’s more than enough to fund a couple of foreign wars. Who is driving us into debt here, kg?
Mikey
November 7th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
“French health insurance companies insure every single citizen by law, yet operate with 1/4 (that’s one quarter) the overhead of U.S. health insurance companies.”
Specifically, the U.S. health insurance industry pays eighty cents on each dollar in premiums. French health insurance companies pay ninety five cents on the dollar. Are we enjoying sucking Group Health’s cock?
“The Bank of America did a study in 2006 that showed if the U.S. dropped its per capita health care spending from the current ~17% to the ~10% of France, it would save $600B per year.”
Percentages based on GDP (gross domestic product).
November 7th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I’ll be the first to agree our health insurance system is a mess. Turning it over to the government isn’t the answer. Allowing interstate competition between insurers will bring down cost. Making insurance premiums tax-deductible will increase affordability. We already have government-funded health insurance for the por. It’s called Medicaid and it’s been pretty much in disarray for years. You really want the people who manage that to take over the whole system?
As to the almighty French, good for them. I guess lifestyle choices have nothing to do with life expectancy? I mean, c’mon-We live in a country where obesity is rampant. People don’t get near enough exercise. Folks don’t eat right. You really think handing the entire health care system over to the government will fix these things? Individual choice=individual responsibility. What, you gonna tax Twinkies? Long as they don’t mess with your KoolAid, I guess.
And Mikey, as to those spendy foreign wars your lot is always bitching about, you might take it up with your commander in chief. You DO know who that is, don’t you?
November 7th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
“You really want the people who manage that to take over the whole system?”
dave— is this a trick question? Did you miss the part about six hundred billion dollars a year to U.S. health insurance companies for unnecessary overhead?
Yeesh.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
KG : You obviously have a memory problem. Let us all help you.
I’m sure you think the surplus that was left behind in 2000 was from Bush, but obviously that is false. He is not a time-traveller. Really, he’s not. Clinton (who I have problems with believe it or not…) left us in a much better position that Bush Sr. did.
I’m sure you think Shrub left us with a surplus in Feb. of this year. He did not. Nor did he leave us at +/- 0. Nothing was balanced, nothing was ‘at zero’… so you need to shut the fuck up with the “Obama has driven us so far in debt’ bullshit. Anyone with two brain cells can see that’s a load of shit.
I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid here, but I WILL give the man a fighting chance. Clinton had 8 years, and did a decent job with them. Shrub had his 8 and fucked us into debt into 2 un-winnable wars, screwed Afghanistan up by prematurely barreling into Iraq, (Taking out an asshole who needed to be dealt with, sure. No argument there… but we DID support him while he was useful to us… or do you also not remember that?)
So yeah, we’re fucked because of a long list of bad decisions made well before this guy got the job. I still will give him the benefit of the doubt and let a year go by to see what he’s got and what he’s gonna do to get us out of this shit-hole we’re in.
Not to mention the Republicans seem to only be acting like 3 year olds by shouting “NO! ” to anything even approaching a solution.
And they have nothing but ‘NO!’ to offer either.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
The health insurance industry operates at about a two percent profit margin. Only in the writings of Karl Marx or a speech by Princess Pelosi and her ilk will you see that figure referred to as excessive.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
November 7th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
“The health insurance industry operates at about a two percent profit margin. Only in the writings of Karl Marx or a speech by Princess Pelosi and her ilk will you see that figure referred to as excessive.”
dave— if this is true, where does the other 18% overhead go? How do French insurance companies operate at 5% overhead while providing free health care to every citizen?
Dude, wake up and stop sucking these mega-billion dollar corporate scammers’ cocks. It’s just stupid. Yes, OBVIOUSLY, the government can do better… WAY better—to the tune of six hundred billion dollars a year.
November 7th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I’m just waiting for one of these two tools to try to argue that we can’t afford it. (You’re not strapping MY kids and grandkids with that kind of debt… How are we going to pay for all of this???) What a load…
Well, since I like to answer my own questions…
We have spent over $900 BILLION on Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001.
Who is going to pay for THAT? Jeebus? Santa Claus?
Why the fuck can’t we pay to keep our own country and countrymen healthy, instead of killing people on the other side of the planet, pissing them off and all their buddies, etc.. and painting a huge fucking target on our own backs saying ‘YEAH WE ARE AMERICA ! FUCK YOU HAJIB ! ! ! What are you going to DO about it??? Fly a plane into a building?!!?!’
We’re better off spending that dough here. You know it as well as I do. Period.
November 7th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
I think dave’s number comes from the insurance industry lobby who calculates profit as a percentage of total US healthcare spending, NOT as it should be calculated: as a percentage of revenue. In 2006 they were claiming it was a 1% profit rate (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/08/05/are-health-insurers-making-too-much-money/) I’ve seen 2% thrown around for 2008. The real number is probably closer 5-10% profit. Another disturbing number is that the medical loss ratio (the amount of money spent on actual health care rather vs. administrative costs and profits) has gone from an average of 90-95% in the early 90’s to about 80% now. For some individual companies and regions it can be as low as 60%. That is, for each $1.00 you put in, only $0.60 goes to health care.
The health insurance lobby is writing much of the “reform”, so it won’t be anywhere near the evil socialist program that dave and kg are afraid of. Nor will it include the well functioning public option that we need. Hopefully, it will break up some of the near monopolies, and include some effective regulation on companies to keep them from hitting people with pre-existing condition exclusions or punishing people that actually use their insurance.
BTW, dave, aren’t you getting close to qualifying for Medicare? Are you going to pass on your evil government run plan when you get there? If you’re not, you should be aware of another boondoggle for private insurance companies: the “Medicare Advantage” (like the nice fancy name?) which allows private insurance companies to charge 19% more than public Medicare (called a boring “Medicare risk-contracting program”). Of course there’s inefficiencies in Medicare, and private insurance is making sure there are a few extra. To the tune of $4-5 billion per year. (http://www.familiesusa.org/assets/pdfs/medicare-privatization-oct.pdf) This is what happens when the insurance lobby writes regulation. If the private sector is so much better than the government, why do they need a nearly 20% subsidy to compete?
November 7th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Just because the irony is too great to ignore: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/06/rally-heart-attack/
November 7th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Medicare? Fuck that. I’ll work until I drop because I love what I do.
Sit in a rocking chair and wait for the “end of life” counselors to knock on my door? Fuck that; as long as I can put their pencil-pushin’ asses through the plate glass I figure I’m still good to go. So little time. So many graves to piss on.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Oh, and as far as the “ironic” post in your commie blog-They’re DOCTORS, numb nuts! They’re SUPPOSED to help. Don’t make a fucking bit of difference who’s paying for their hamburger helper. If they’d have been on an Army base it would have been the medical corps who treated them. So fucking what? Jesus, boy, why don’t you buy a God damned vowel?
November 7th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
dave, resorting to insults so fast… I understand, it’s all you have. Truthiness is strong in you. Facts, not so much.
It has little to do with working. You can still work and take medicare, retirement, and social security… You’ve paid into Medicare for years, and you’re going to pass up on getting that money back because you’re too afraid of government run healthcare? At least you’re consistent in your paranoia. And you’ve been sounding half sane here for the past few weeks…
Oh, sky cake…
Keep the rubber side down brother
November 7th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
“They’re DOCTORS, numb nuts! They’re SUPPOSED to help.”
dave— and for-profit health insurance companies are NOT supposed to help?
Yeesh. Keep on schlurping.
November 8th, 2009 at 12:10 am
Hey look 10.2% unemployment. That’s unpossible , we spent 900B to keep it bellow 8%. Nah, BO fucked that one up. But this time… no this time he’ll get it right. He’ll spend 1.2T to to ‘fix’ health care.
How much you want to bet it’ll cost more and do less? Anyone want to take that bet?
It doesn’t matter, it’ll never pass the senate. People don’t want it. The country already sees that BO is full of shit and is in over his head. He’s Jimmy Carter with a jump shot. He’s fucked up the situation in Iran, he’s rolling over in Afghanistan, he threw an anchor around the neck of the economy and now he wants to fine me $15k if I don’t buy insurance.
One term loser.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:50 am
I believe you KG. I believe you because you said “Obama will lose because he’s weak.” And yes… you said that.
And yeah… we were at =/- 0 debt when he took office. The 2 wars Shrub started cost us nothing, right? 8 years that douche had, and HE FAILED. He couldn’t close the deal on Afghanistan when he should have. Your idol failed and you need to take your thinly veiled racist bullshit elsewhere.
November 8th, 2009 at 5:13 am
Ummm, bikepunk? Got a minute, buddy? Bush ain’t commander in chief. Hasn’t been for awhile now. Any gripes with the war should be directed to the current commander in chief. That would be Barack Hussein Obama, 44th president of these United States.
And you might quit throwing the race card when you have nothing else to add. It’s sorta like calling “wolf”. You remember that story, don’t you?
November 8th, 2009 at 11:25 am
“He’ll spend 1.2T to to ‘fix’ health care.
How much you want to bet it’ll cost more and do less? Anyone want to take that bet?”
kg— Please pay attention. We’ve been over this. If our health insurance industry ran as well as that of France, it would pay out six hundred billion dollars THE FIRST YEAR. And bonus! 45 million people get access to health care that they don’t have now.
Don’t be an idiot. Read T.R. Reid, get on the bandwagon and do something right for the country.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Wow… I’m a racist.
Nice.
I forgot that if you don’t agree with the glorious leader you must be a racist.
Nice one there.
How about you rethink that comment, be a man, and apologize for that one.
November 8th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
kg + dave = hot nazi butt sex in a leather treehouse 4ever. ;) LOL! OMG!
November 8th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I used to support Obama’s health care plan but I learned that Hitler supported health care and so now I don’t, because giving us health care is just a way to get us all into the gas ovens. (This is what Dave meant when he referred to “end of life counselors” in his comment above.)
One other thing. Since government run healthcare like Medicare is obviously such a horrible idea, I am trying to understand why we tolerate government run education. If I am reading my history right, Hitler also supported this, and so do we, so we should stop. If you want your kid to get an education I think you should have to pay for it — plus maybe a little extra to the insurance companies since they are so poor what with their two percent profit margin.
One thing I know is that I don’t want my taxes going to pay for some other person’s kid’s education. I would much rather live in a country full of uneducated peasants. And sick people.
Anything else would be uncivilized. Inhumane, even.
E
November 9th, 2009 at 3:13 am
KG… “Jimmy Carter with a jump shot.” Grew up where they still have cross lightings. I think I know a thinly veiled racist comment when I read one.
You can disagree with him as much as you like, but when you bring that shit in… you show your true colors.
And yeah, it IS President Obama’s war now. And rather than make a decision with his gut, as Bush did, he is trying to do it in a way that gets us out fast and lets the locals fill in the gap the right way… not with power-hungry madmen like the Taliban, etc…
I disagree with him on more than a few things, and I call them like I see him. But I criticize the POLICY, the DECISION, I don’t use euphemisms to denigrate the man. You can take your request for an apology elsewhere.
I apologize for nothing.
November 9th, 2009 at 3:34 am
How about I give you some alternatives?
“He’s Jimmy Carter with better-looking daughters”
“He’s the 21st Century Jimmy Carter”
“He’s nothing more than a harvard-educated elite liberal nazi-marxi-fascio-hitlerama, with a knowledge of the constitution, and a damn Chicagoan to boot”
“He’s the MacBook Pro version of Jimmy Carter’s Apple II”
“He’s this century’s Debbie Gibson”
“He sucks. Full stop”
Any of those would have been fine… are you starting to see my point, asshat?
And yeah, that kind of shit gets under my skin, so fuck you.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:43 am
I don’t have health insurance, but I don’t trust this lobbyist influenced bullshit that Congress just passed. This isn’t fucking France and passing this law won’t change the fact that a vast majority of people in this country have a completely different and very unhealthy cooking and eating style.
Jon does have his moments outside the corporate propaganda machine, but don’t pay attention to the man behind the curtain. All satire aside if you simply believe the world is what it is on it’s face your severely mistaken.
Joke about the debt, but the US dollar is now fucked because of our penchant for printing fiat money. France doesn’t have a choice but to be more efficient, here in America we just print more money and git-r-done.
Dumbocrats and Repubwackins, we love America rah rah rah! Fuck.
November 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Yeah, pretty much.
November 9th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
How about Jimmy Carter who can’t bowl?
The racism is in your mind and it’s a cheap argument from those who know their candidate is weak.
November 9th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
“This isn’t fucking France and passing this law won’t change the fact that a vast majority of people in this country have a completely different and very unhealthy cooking and eating style.”
schulz— let me get this straight… your “conservative” opinion is that America cannot compete with the French in health care, so we might as well admit it and drop trou for the mega-corporations of the US health insurance industry?
Sorry, that does not serve. The U.S. can do ANYTHING those froggy surrender monkeys can do, and do it bigger and faster. This is not about health, it’s about paying for health care. (The two are related, but that’s a complex issue. I’m happy to discuss it, if you’d like.)
The US health insurance industry operates at FOUR TIMES the overhead cost of France’s, to the tune of six hundred billion dollars a year. HELLO?
November 9th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Mikey— you are an idiot and I know it’s best to ignore you, but. . . How is it that you’re going to get people off the fried foods and junk? You talk about life expectancy, but you have not mentioned how you will correct the real problems.
I’m not going to read that book, if it’s so fucking great break it down for us. Does it give a solution for this? Quit saying how great the French system is and then attacking them. It makes you look dumber and dumber.
You’re telling me that you’re going to get all these unhealthy people to get pumped up about America, change their diet and show the French that we can do better? You’re totally delusional. You’re a happy little “liberal” who doesn’t know that his ideals have nothing to do with positive new change for the better, but are just new ways to promote the old ideals of total control in the hands of a few powerful leaders.
Look at the disparity of income. The United States no longer qualifies as a first world country. The 111 new government boards, bureaucracies, commissions, and programs the health care bill will create are going to fix that?
Publishers Weekly: “Reid neglects to address the elephant in the room: just how are we to sell these changes to the mighty providers and insurers?” It is not conservative to say no, it is pragmatic. I don’t want to drop trou to “the mighty providers and insurers”, do you? Fucking figure it out and get back to us. I’ll be happy to endorse a clean bill, but this shit they came out with in the middle of the night is dirty dirty dirty.
November 9th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
“I’m not going to read that book, if it’s so fucking great break it down for us”
schulz— Um six hundred billion dollars per year in reduced insurance overhead costs? Did you miss that part?
“I don’t want to drop trou to “the mighty providers and insurers”, do you? ”
Reform and save six hundred billion dollars per yesr, you mean? Or keep sucking corporate cock? I think I know how I’d prefer to go…
Sheesh.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
I have been reading the bill and that shit is fucked up. Throw out this bill and regulate the mighty ones, not let them write the bill and cheer. I just listened to an interview with Reid from Air America and the interviewer and he both thought this insurer endorsed bill should be thrown out. Universal health care would be great, but read the fucking bill, boy. This book doesn’t mean shit if the bill the house just passed has nothing to fucking do with what Reid discusses in his book.
Nice, break down a book in one sentence. What a fucking joke. No doubt any extra cash flow this bill generates will just go into some administrative bullshit and bonuses or whatever and not into advanced universal health care coverage. Fuck you and fuck the WHO.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
“insurer endorsed bill”
schulzenun— now you’r on to something. Who is surprised that the trillion-dollar tricksters howl with protest while quietly pocketing a few key congressmen? Once the public option goes away, they win this round. It’s business as usual, spending 17% GDP (versus 11% (Germany), 10% (France) and 8% (Japan)) to provide second-rate health care to as few people as possible. High fives, cocaine and hookers all around.
The march of a thousand miles begins with the first step. I say we get the ball rolling and COME AT THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS LIKE A RABID SPIDER MONKEY every two years until we beat that $600B/year of gravy out of them.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
I think you actually just admitted in your own way that you have some problems with the current legislation. I can’t believe it.
We can’t implement the bill as it was passed in the house and go back without wasting a whole fuckload more than $600B/year.
I still don’t know how you’re going to get the fatties to quit eating pound after pound of shit food. How about bottle after bottle of toxic medicines that keep people “managed”? You’re just so fucking brainwashed. Either that or you don’t want to think about these things because they’re inconvenient.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
“I still don’t know how you’re going to get the fatties to quit eating pound after pound of shit food. How about bottle after bottle of toxic medicines that keep people “managed”? You’re just so fucking brainwashed. Either that or you don’t want to think about these things because they’re inconvenient.”
schulz— easy, big fella. This is not about health, it’s about paying for health care.
My beef is quite specifically with the U.S. health insurance industry (four times the overhead of other industrialized democracies, amounting to around half a trillion dollars annually, while failing to cover 45 million Americans), and the “provider” mega-corporations (The U.S. has the by far highest health care cost in the world while ranking mid-pack for results. American doctors are paid about four times as much as doctors in other industrialized democracies. In Japan, medical procedures cost about one-tenth what they do here ).
These industries collude to operate a trillion-dollar, for-profit scam on U.S. citizens. It’s absolutely shameful. How long will it be before we hear the phrase “too big to fail” applied to these entities? It is critical that we rein them in, firmly and as soon as possible.
I think the critical first piece is universal coverage. The U.S. is the ONLY industrialized democracy in the world that doesn’t offer this, and it’s a disgrace. Since it seems unlikely that the health insurance industry will go quietly, our best option is for the government to step in and fill the gap with a public option. If these insurance companies are such models of efficiency, maybe they can throw some of their $600B/year gravy at the problem and provide coverage that every other industrialized democracy in the world enjoys.
And by the way, in France, Germany, Japan and most other first world nations, insurance providers are competing, private companies. So are the hospitals. So are the doctors. There is no need at all for “government health care”— except that the current insurance and provider corporations are butt-raping the nation. There are 45 million new customers waiting and all they have to do is outperform the big, bad, overspending government.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Mikey wants to bang Rachel Maddow. Sorry, peaches, she don’t like men.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Mikey,
I’m 45 years old. In my life the only thing this collection of deviants in DC has managed to pull off is the first Gulf War.
Everything else in my life has been one cluster-fuck-up after another. In which they get stronger and we slowly suffocate.
And now you think they will magically do this one thing right ??
I’ll race you to the Kool-aid. 10 bucks says you win.
John
November 10th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I’m sure that I will probably get ripped for it given the stance of many of you on here, but as a licensed life and health insurance agent, I have a different position on some of the issues that are being discussed. To address the remarks about the uninsured and what can be done to provide coverage for them, there is a system already in place in some states called the “uninsurable pool”. What this system does is states that any carrier that wants to conduct business in a given state has to take a turn at providing coverage to individuals that don’t qualify for any type of low income subsidy and can’t qualify due to underwriting for health coverage. Also, as someone else alluded to, tort reform should have been introduced as a part of the bill. Part of the reason why we see such high costs for health care in our society is due to the litigious nature of our country. I am not opposed to legal action in the case of wrongdoing by a physician but some lawsuits that come up and the “settle rather than let it go to trial attitude” that permeates our legal system is what ultimately help to drive up the cost of seeing a physician. Finally, I think that as bike enthusiasts, we should have a greater appreciation than anyone for programs that encourage some type of wellness participation. If we can subsidize health care, there should be no reason why we can’t figure out a way to make preventative care a more integral part of our health care programs.
For the record, my position is neither left or right, so I won’t engage in the political mud slinging that has gone on in this topic. If someone has a legit counter point, I am open minded enough to listen and, hey, I might even agree.
Scoot
November 10th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
dave— I assume Rachel Maddow is a TV actor? I really don’t get much TV in my diet. I’ve never seen Jon Stewart nor Glenn Beck, for example.
colonel— so you’re just giving up and continuing to suck that trillion-dollar corporate cock? No thanks. Or do you not agree that all Americans should have access to health care? Do you disagree that the U.S. is capable of running its social affairs as well as the French, Germans or Japanese?
You see, there are some things that sort of require government intervention. The environment is my favorite example. Building highways and airports is another popular one. Fighting foreign wars is a classic. Bailing out the trillion-dollar scammers in the banking industry apparently was another.
Again, how long until we hear the phrase, “too big to fail” applied to an insurance company? Again, no thanks. The time is now to, you know, come at those motherfuckers like a rabid spider monkey n’shit.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
” tort reform should have been introduced as a part of the bill. Part of the reason why we see such high costs for health care in our society is due to the litigious nature of our country.”
Scoot—
Absolutely. A fair chunk of that $600B/year insurance industry gravy goes to paying their legal departments. With universal care, all of that overhead simply goes away.
Mikey
November 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
You brought up the unhealthy Americans. It’s not about health? Fucking stupid.
What you’re saying is we need to regulate the hospitals to make them go back to being hospitals, and the insurance companies? That’s like when MacGyver was stuck in that truck with no brakes and a load of nitro. This bill was endorsed by them and the bastards in big pharma! This fucking bill you’re so enthused about does nothing to address the issues you’re concerned most with. The fact that you want to ignore that for now and just pass this bill is highly suspicious.
I say, I say, I say read the fucking bill! Jail time and thousands in fines, yeah that’s going to help a poor bastard out a lot, isn’t it.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
“Absolutely. A fair chunk of that $600B/year insurance industry gravy goes to paying their legal departments. With universal care, all of that overhead simply goes away.”
Mikey
How do you assume that? Even under the Universal program, the same client/provider relationship will still exist. If the same relationship still exists, won’t the same outcome in terms of potential for legal action still exist? Universal health care only changes how coverage is dispensed. It doesn’t change the nature of the client/provider relationship.
Scoot
November 10th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Stop throwing that $600B figure around with no proof of how that will happen. All you mentioned was some idiotic book that also did not get to the heart of the matter for this country. We could fix the problem, but it’s nowhere near as simple as you’re making it out to be and the lame ass bill from DC certainly doesn’t look good.
“Bailing out the trillion-dollar scammers in the banking industry apparently was another.”
We’ve been over this already. “They” tell you what to think and that is how you roll.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
“colonel— so you’re just giving up and continuing to suck that trillion-dollar corporate cock?”
Mikey,
I just require an “opt out” option.
The idea that I HAVE to join anything is beyond my grasp. Beyond most Americans grasp I say.
I am who I am. Good, bad or otherwise. I join up when I want to. I avoid when I want to. But now I have to join ? Or go to jail ? As is proposed.
Obama used car insurance to argue it.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/11/interview-with-the-president-jail-time-for-those-without-health-care-insurance.html
But. If you don’t want to pay car insurance. Just don’t own a car. Millions do it. I did it for several years.
But “you” now say those with no cars should pay car insurance ??
Your constant ranting about 600 billion saved is annoying. Fine. You read a book. I’ve read a bunch. I’ve also lived a bunch.
Your so focused on the tree, you don’t seem to realize the forest is on fire.
John
November 10th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
“You brought up the unhealthy Americans”
schulz— That wasn’t me. I am talking specifically about how we PAY for health care. We pay more than anyone in the world, we leave 45 million uninsured and receive mid-pack care.
” If the same relationship still exists, won’t the same outcome in terms of potential for legal action still exist?”
Scoot— No. Universal health care means no one is uninsured and no provider claim is unpaid. This is how it’s done in every industrialized democracy save ours. Malpractice insurance in France, Germany and Japan costs 1-2% of what it costs in the U.S. The providers can pretty much close their legal departments. What else is there to litigate over? The insurance companies can pretty much close their legal departments.
“Stop throwing that $600B figure around with no proof of how that will happen.”
schulz— We went over this at least once. This figure comes from a Bank of America study conducted in 2006. You can also get there by looking at the per cent GDP saved (about 7%, using France as an example) and multiply by the U.S. GDP. This represents overhead costs in health insurance not borne by citizens of any other country. HELLO?
Previously, I thought you were opposed to federal bail out of crooked financial institutions. Am I mistaken?
By the way, if you’re truly uninsured, you realize you’re one cancer diagnosis or serious bike crash away from bankruptcy, right?
“The idea that I HAVE to join anything is beyond my grasp. Beyond most Americans grasp I say.”
colonel— It’s simple: you’re an American, all Americans receive health care. I suppose you can “opt out” by not going to the doctor. That would be dumb, but suit yourself.
“But. If you don’t want to pay car insurance. Just don’t own a car. Millions do it. I did it for several years.
You don’t have a choice “not to own” your health. You cannot just take the bus instead catching cancer.
“Your constant ranting about 600 billion saved is annoying. Fine.”
I understand that anti-health-reform opinions are based on concerns about cost. This is a false concern. The fact is that we can save nearly a trillion dollars a year (looking at Japan) AND get better care FOR EVERYONE.
November 10th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
“[the $600b/year] figure comes from a Bank of America study conducted in 2006. You can also get there by looking at the per cent GDP saved (about 7%, using France as an example) and multiply by the U.S. GDP. This represents overhead costs in health insurance not borne by citizens of any other country.”
Mikey— okay, you’re on. Sharpen your pencils, kids, and try to keep up:
France spends about 7% less of it GDP for health care than the U.S. For Japan, it’s 9%. The U.S. GDP was $13060B in 2006. Here we go.
Frenchy health insurance would save the U.S. $914B every year, while providing better care to every citizen.
Sushi-style health insurance would save the U.S. $1175B, call it one-point-two trillion dollars, EVERY YEAR, while providing better care to every citizen.
Anyone else see an opportunity here? Anyone? Ferris? No? Just stay in your homes, citizens, and Aetna/Regence/Group Health/Kaiser will tell you when it’s safe to come out.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Go back and read this, you’ve been talking about people’s health the whole time. You gave the health and life expectancy figures and talked about how American’s are lagging. So I will ask you again, how are you and the control freaks going to fix the unhealthy lifestyles? How about reinstating prohibition, that ought to fix a lot of unhealthy habits. Fucking idiot. The cost no matter what plan you implement, is going to completely overshadow any savings, in my opinion.
Grade school math, nice job. How about you move to one of those countries? Montana is about the size of these countries you mention, so the size of the US alone is a major factor. You want to use a formula that a school child or even an advance kindergartener could solve? That’s extreme oversimplification.
You cannot opt out. If they pass this bill and you go without insurance and then need emergency medical care you will be fined $5-$15k, quite likely jailed and charged $14k to get your broken leg fixed or whatever. How is this any kind of solution for the poor old chap who leads a fair and humble life but does not want the public option?
You still have not gotten into the legalities of signing onto this public option. You don’t care because you will not have to sign it, at least not that you plan. Do you have any idea what happens to you legally when you sign on to the Government welfare plans?
I swear we should just be honest and adopt the caste system because that’s what people like Mikette are all about. Anyone left in the position to “have” to sign on with the public option deserves their fate, eh Mikette?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
“Go back and read this, you’ve been talking about people’s health the whole time. You gave the health and life expectancy figures and talked about how American’s are lagging.”
schulz— No. I am talking about how we PAY for health insurance. Health is a related topic, for instance, it’s a good way to measure the effectiveness of health care. And ours is less effective than most other industrialized democracies’.
“Grade school math, nice job. ”
Thanks, man. Pretty simple way to save a trillion dollars a year, huh? I say, let’s get started.
“You cannot opt out. If they pass this bill and you go without insurance and then need emergency medical care you will be fined $5-$15k, quite likely jailed and charged $14k to get your broken leg fixed or whatever. How is this any kind of solution for the poor old chap who leads a fair and humble life but does not want the public option?”
Of course you can’t opt out. You can’t “opt out” of catching cancer or being bit by a car. What’s your point?
“I swear we should just be honest and adopt the caste system because that’s what people like Mikette are all about. Anyone left in the position to “have” to sign on with the public option deserves their fate, eh Mikette?”
Not sure where you’re going with this, it seems off-topic. Go back and re-read Paul Fussell, _Class_. I thought he was a little too snarky for my tastes, but he makes an eloquent case for outlining ten distinct classes in American society. Me? I was born middle class and I’ll always be middle class.
And yes, people who today get no health care “deserve their fate,” including basic health care. Don’t you agree?
November 12th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Mikette, you did, post 11. You want to control people who’re too unhealthy to be “useful”. Tell us how this is done without spending copious amounts of money. Tell us how this is done in a fair manner. You’ve been ignoring the fact that you want control over those under you.
No. The basis of the law and the reality of people abusing themselves and/or the system and getting away with it don’t coalesce. I do not agree. I thought your whole gripe was the unfair distribution of health care. The bill does not correct the hypocrisies, it adds more and buries them in paperwork.
You logic/math is inadequate. I’m sure that’s why your bank is failing.
If you opt out you get held responsible for the bills, to throw a guy in jail and double his bill is totally and completely unfair. This bill is bad and anyone who supports it is either completely ignorant/brainwashed, or has some connection to profiting off one of the 111 new government organizations that will be formed. Consequences be damned. The people will not be better off if this bill is passed and no amount of your weak arguments are going to change my mind or apparently the minds of several people reading this.
Mikette, you are an upper middle class manager type who dreams of controlling all those around you, but you just do not have the brains to really get ahead with it.
Stupid me, I thought after W the Dumbocrats would have wanted to try and tone down the hypocrisies, but they’re fucking cranking it to the max. I proverbially spit in your face. I say, FUCK you “liberal”. You either have no fucking idea what is fucking going on or you love it and just hope that more mad psychos like W don’t get back into office, but that’s guaranfuckingteed to happen now and big O’s term is not even a year on yet.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:55 am
“Mikette, you did, post 11. You want to control people who’re too unhealthy to be “useful”. Tell us how this is done without spending copious amounts of money. Tell us how this is done in a fair manner. You’ve been ignoring the fact that you want control over those under you.”
schulz— whew, steady mate. WTF is this about “control?” I’m talking about health care. I’m talking about SAVING A TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. The french do it. The germans do it. The Japanese do it. The British do it. The Canadians do it. Why is America sucking corporate cock?
“You logic/math is inadequate. I’m sure that’s why your bank is failing.”
Take a deep breath. the $600B annual figure I cited came from a Bank of America study on health care costs. The one trillion dollar figure comes from simple math and publicly available figures. What bank is failing, and how is that relevant? HELLO?
“If you opt out you get held responsible for the bills,”
You cannot “opt out” of catching cancer or being hit by a car. Yeesh.
“Mikette, you are an upper middle class manager type”
If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that I admitted my middle class roots and lifestyle yesterday. I will never be upper middle class (unless Steve, my cat, wins the lottery) and I’ve never held a management position in my life.
“I proverbially spit in your face. I say, FUCK you “liberal”.”
I’m a moderate. Stay classy, dude.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
ColonelSandersRetired Says:
“If you don’t want to pay car insurance. Just don’t own a car. Millions do it. I did it for several years. But “you” now say those with no cars should pay car insurance ??”
That’s a really really stupid analogy. If it was right, this rewrite would work ‘If you don’t want to pay health insurance. Just don’t own health. Millions do it. I did it for several years. But “you” now say those with no health should pay health insurance?’.
Yes, I think those with no health (the dead) shouldn’t have to pay health insurance.
That said, I _am_ against compulsory insurance, but not because some brain dead faux news talking head wants to equate my health to a car.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
zen— you’re absolutely right, of course, but I must make one small quibble on a point of rhetoric.
“compulsory” is partisan political doublespeak for “universal.”
There is no such thing as compulsory— you can’t squeeze blood from a stone, and millions of Americans are simply too poor to pay health insurance premiums.
Universal means everyone is covered. The united States is the ONLY industrialized democracy in the world that does not offer access to health care for all its citizens.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
schultzenuninsured Says:
“Montana is about the size of these countries you mention, so the size of the US alone is a major factor.”
Really, you’re comparing the _geographic_ size of montana to a european nation as an argument as to why socialized medicine works for them? wow, you hit the logic brakes pretty quick.
Tell us how land mass has a direct correlation to the viability of socialized medicine?
“The people will not be better off if this bill is passed and no amount of your weak arguments are going to change my mind”
At least you admit you’re basing your decision on your opinion.
“I swear we should just be honest and adopt the caste system because that’s what people like Mikette are all about.”
Yeah, Mike sounds like he all about leaving the indigent to die. I suppose that’s why he supports universal health care.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Mikey Says:
“compulsory” is partisan political doublespeak for “universal.”
That’s not what I understood the senate bill to say, but I haven’t read all eleventy billion pages so I could be wrong. In massachusetts, however, we _do_ have compulsory health care. People are _required_ to buy health insurance and there are legal penalties if you don’t have some form of coverage, even state sponsored. I thought the house bill was structured the same way.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
dave Says:
“Bush ain’t commander in chief. Hasn’t been for awhile now. Any gripes with the war should be directed to the current commander in chief. ”
sure lets blame the status of a war started in the first year of the previous eight-year-administration on the president whose been in office for less than a year.
Your just upset that he might actually _fix_ the problem, and not only would you be proven wrong about BHO but it would repudiate your entire socio-political philosophy.
I see your kind every day on the TV dave-o, you’d rather have a country in economic ruin, in a state of war, and under constant threat with a republican president than have a tolerant nation at peace on the path to recovery under a democrat.
I expect we’ll see you and schultzie here soon:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/11/07/20091107neonazi.html
November 12th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
“People are _required_ to buy health insurance and there are legal penalties if you don’t have some form of coverage, even state sponsored.”
zen— It’s been a long time (um, ‘87) since I lived in Taxachussetts, so I’m not familiar. Does the State pay health insurance premiums for all poor people? That sounds like universal coverage to me.
On the national scale, I believe the current legislation leaves the uninsured figure at its current 45 million. That’s not universal and it’s not “compulsory.”
So-called “conservatives” like to think they are FISCALLY conservative, but there is a trillion dollar cost problem with the U.S. health insurance and health care provider industries, and they scream “NO!” It doesn’t make sense to me.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Are you fuggen wankers STILL wasting time on this shit? Jeeze.
November 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Zen says;
“That’s a really really stupid analogy.”
POTUS started it.
Talk to him.
John
November 12th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
“Are you fuggen wankers STILL wasting time on this shit? Jeeze.”
dave— yeah, with a trillion dollar annual cost savings at stake, I think we’ll keep talking about it.
“POTUS started it.”
Colonel— Such cutting wit. So you favor universal health coverage?
November 13th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Whatever. This is a reasonable article on the subject:
http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/article/id/100013255/
I’m just not so keen on the requirement to have insurance. Who is that saving money for? Gee, I wonder why the businessmen like that idea so much. We can leave that for the Massholes. How’s the MA budget doing? Yeah, you guys are real sharp. As was evidenced in the “big dig” project.
I would like everyone to have “insurance” for major accidents or being struck by major curable disease, but if one wants to go in to the doc every time one sneezes? If your diet is crappy and you get diabetes or whatever and it gets worse because you won’t adjust? I bet all states have something one way or the other for the “uninsurable pool”, or those who’re simply too broke to have insurance.
All I know is we get all the idealism during elections, and something else during session. The lies about fighting big pharma have been told time and time again. The fear mongering used to get theirs and the big insurance stipulations. Come on. No doubt the meat was thrown out for any real savings.
Hope your stock goes back up after the bill passes are you Mikette?
November 13th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
“http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/article/id/100013255/
I’m just not so keen on the requirement to have insurance. Who is that saving money for?
Hope your stock goes back up after the bill passes are you Mikette?”
schulz—
The current legislation is mild— the usual compromises and partisan bickering— but it’s a start.
Don’t confuse partisan rhetoric with reality. Universal health care is a good thing. “Compulsory” is a non sequitur. It’s an obvious and hackneyed rhetorical play.
There is a trillion dollar per year cost savings opportunity here. EVERYONE saves money. Buckets of money.
And thanks for asking, my portfolio is doing well this year. Call it dumb luck, but I was cash-heavy at the end of 2007 and it cushioned my losses by about ten percent. I do own small, speculative positions in a handful of pharmaceutical companies, small firms that have developed promising therapies. The idea is that if their therapies survive FDA trials, one of the Big Pharms will snap them up and it’s high fives, hookers and cocaine all around.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
You guys do realize you’ve spent the past week arguing about something you basically agree on, don’t you? Just sayin’…
November 13th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
“Colonel— Such cutting wit. So you favor universal health coverage?”
No. I favor the Government leaving me the fuck alone. In all capacities. I can take care of my self. Fuck anyone who can’t.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
“No. I favor the Government leaving me the fuck alone. In all capacities. I can take care of my self. Fuck anyone who can’t.”
Colonel— ah, the old “I GOT MINE SO FUCK YOU” philosophy. Charming.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
POTUS can eat a dick. Not that he needs the practice…
November 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
In all capacities? Really? Then don’t use roads, police, or fire protection. The government needs to leave you “the fuck alone”. While you’re at it you should live off the grid, produce your own power (including gas for the car you aren’t going to drive on government funded roads…) and purify your own water… Lots of government money and regulations involved there. You’d better not use the grocery store to purchase any staple items either. You know: milk, cheese, flour, sugar… Because they’re produced using large federal subsidies. You did say you could take care of yourself, and that everyone else should fuck off…
CSR’s comment = FAIL.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
“FAIL”, my ass! The woods, fields and streams are full of more food than you can shake a stick at. And not a crumb of gub’mint cheese. Many lived that way, and we still could. We’ve just forgotten how.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
““FAIL”, my ass! The woods, fields and streams are full of more food than you can shake a stick at. And not a crumb of gub’mint cheese. Many lived that way, and we still could. We’ve just forgotten how.”
dave— more food than 300 million people can shake a stick at? You’re being an idiot.
In fact, el jefe left out several huge government-provided services that the Colonel (and you) use each and every day, always have, always will: Airports. Seaports. The Coast Guard. The Army, Navy and Air Force, which prosecute your desire for buck-fitty gas overseas. Public Health. And of course, hundreds of millions of acres of public land, off which you fantasize living. In fact, every schoolboy knows that the rich use more of all these government services than the poor do.
Yeesh.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:24 am
dave, don’t be a dumb-ass. How simplistic is your view of the world? I really thought you had a higher mental capacity than Lennie Small…
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/area_man_passionate_defender_of
November 15th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Let me get this straight-People half a world away can’t get to the bounty from God that is right outside my door, so me and mine have to do without? Maybe they should quit breeding like cockroaches. I don’t need a damned bit of help to take care of my own, push come to shove. We are farmers and skilled tradesmen-the very people who feed and shelter your sorry ass. What-You think the fields get plowed, the trees bear fruit and the fields and streams produce organic free range protien through an act of Congress? And what’s this “public land” horseshit? Farm’s been in the family more years than you’ve lived, and it will be long after your grave’s been pissed on. Now who’s being an idiot? This grows tedious. Smell ya later.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
The only problem with a no government “I can take care of myself” structure is that the strongest will survive. And that means the bigger, stronger, more heavily armed, better trained person/group can push your self-helping ass right out the door.
If all hell breaks loose someday, you won’t be safe holed up in your house with your family and friends and a bunch of guns. Sooner or later a bigger bad-ass will come along and if they want what you have, they will probably take it.
While the government fucks up a lot of things, they also provide a large amount of stability and infrastructure.
You want hands off government? Ask some farmers that saw their streams and fields poisoned by big moneymaking companies for years how nice it is when nobody has your back. Who wants some milk from a fluoride poisoned dairy cow?
November 15th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
“What-You think the fields get plowed, the trees bear fruit and the fields and streams produce organic free range protien through an act of Congress?”
dave— No, just the highways, airports, armed forces, etc. You’re a fucking moron.
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