Arlen Specter faces the mob

A reasonable enough looking older gentleman back in my home state of Pennsylvania went all crazy at a town hall meeting today. And I mean crazy. They guy is worried. He was questions. And he should. He’s being fed lies. Lots of ‘em. He wants to know what the truth is.

We all do.

He thought he’d have an opportunity to address Sen. Specter and those in attendance, but was not able to for reasons I don’t fully understand. I believe some kind of tickets were handed out, limiting the number of people that would have a chance to step up to the microphone.

See can see it below.

Write up on this one, with really fun “don’t cha just love it” commentary, at tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

The local confused populace also finds great fear in terrorists coming to our shores. Because they have been told over and over again that “we’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them here.”

So closing Guantanamo becomes a problem for these confused sorts. It becomes “bringing them here.” Never mind the fact we have literally hundreds upon hundreds of vicious mean bastards that would cut you into pieces locked up in our prisons system. Locked up where they will stay. We can certainly manage to lock up a foreign (super scary Muslim!) terrorist with the likes of our own domestic, home ground son’s a bitches.

More of that also at talkingpointsmemo.com.

Just remember, you can’t fix stupid.

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

47 thoughts on “Arlen Specter faces the mob

  1. wow. with all the information available out there, both true and untrue, you’d think that people would be able to sort through the muck and come out with the correct viewpoint on these issues. it’s not surprising that the people attending these town hall meetings are mostly the oldies. i wonder if people my age and younger were more well represented, if we’d maybe not see so much of what was displayed in the two vids you posted. i recently participated in a ‘phone hall’ meeting where i was called and asked to participate. it was really cool, it appeared to have reached lots of people. i hung on till i was able to ask a question and got a response, then i went back to what i was doing. this format didn’t require me to voluntarily show up somewhere, just stay on the line and listen till my turn to ask a question. all i know is that there never seems to be enough young, educated people at these things. too bad.

  2. …juan grande, i hate to see that gentleman pegged as “crazy” unless you mean “crazy” in a good way when he’s nothing more than (a)- concerned & (b)- pissed off & (c)- a bit reactive because of the first two…it’s simply & understandably abject frustration…

    …& nate…that’s just it, how do older folks in particular “sort through the muck and come out with the correct viewpoint on these issues.”…when you’ve spent your whole life believing & paying into a system only to find that there are a lotta “holes in the fabric”, as an older person, i can only imagine that it’s hard to know what’s real & what’s not, internet or not…

    …the question becomes “who do i believe ???” & that’s who the ‘sara palins’ & the ‘rush limboughs’ spin towards…

    …on top of it all, town hall meeting or not, you’re still dealing w/ a politician who is always gonna be looking for that conciliatory middle ground w/ no hard answers to hard questions…

  3. The guy in the first video says he “came prepared to speak” yet when he had a microphone in front of his face, Specter 2 ft away from him, and the entire audience’s undivided attention, he could only mutter something about cronies, all while seeming as if he was going to dump in his drawers at any given moment.

    To the second video: Oh you dont like the Koran? But you like the Jews and the Christians? Wow, shocking, really? And you’re really scared of the brown boogeyman executing your white family? I see, I see.

    All good concerns.

  4. …so, pfaff…did specter offer him the opportunity to actually “speak his piece” beyond letting him blow off some steam ???…the poor guy had already had some big-ass motherfucker put his hands on him & threaten him, so ya think he mighta been a little nervous n’ upset ???…

    …i agree, it was disappointing that he wasn’t bold enough to say “hey, arlen, gimme the mic for a minute” but, shit dude, you make it sound like everyone is beneath you…lotta folks might not be intellectual geniuses like you but that doesn’t mean they’re not concerned…

    …it’s like the guy who obviously went out of his way to acquire a ‘koran’ & then took the time to delve into it…it may have only added to his confusion, but hey…dude is concerned & he’s trying to learn…perhaps you’d like to look him up & offer your great insight to help him better understand…

    …don’t get me wrong, pfaff-ster…the majority of the great unwashed are sheep w/ no incentive to learn or understand anything beyond their techy little phones & i-pods n’ shit ‘cuz that’s all they wanna care about but here we’ve at least got folks trying to find some truth…

    …& even when you’re looking for truth, it can be elusive…

  5. bgw-

    I agree with the last two paragraphs of what you said. I’ll try to stay away from the conspiracy stuff and just say that the entire population has been fed so much BS the last 10 years that it’s damn near impossible to know shit from Shinola.

    To quote the Christian Qur’an – “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34)

    But I never read that book, but I can show you where it says it, and I looked at it.

    Basically, were fucked now, because the media can digest the news and regurgitate it back to us in whatever flavor pablum we prefer – no thinking involved. So what do we supposed to do, either ignore it (like you alluded to) or get all hyphy like the first dude.

    I prefer a crazy human to a zombie any day, because they’ll listen eventually.

  6. BGW, what you say is true. I still can’t accept their ignorance or their lack of clarity on the issues simply because they may or may not be able to operate the internet. People still write books and publish newspapers. I went to the same american history and government classes as the conservative nuts out there, and i’m able to form an opinion based on good information and recognize bad information, or at least seek truth when i’m presented with questionable data. i guess i don’t understand where the sources of this misinformation get their credibility. it’s vexing to say the least.

  7. …not that politicians haven’t been putting their own spin on things for years but i kinda see it as when print & media advertising discovered just how much you could obfuscate the truth & sell your “product” as something completely different, is when things took a turn for the worse…

    “lipstick on a pig” is just “lipstick on a pig” IF yer paying attention but it can be sold as a lotta other things if yer not…

    …just my take…

  8. Whatca tryin’ to say about my gal Sarah Palin with that “lipstick on a pig” comment?

    Some smart person will make ridiculous tees to sell at these events. If it’s not below the Arizona GOP to doctor photos of Obama, then imagine what a freelance looney can get away with.

  9. …i’m sorry but i have to retract statements made months ago as regards “doing her”…

    …i couldn’t, in good conscience, “do” a bitch that lame even “in the america i know & love”…

    …that’s right, even “i” have standards…

  10. everyone should read “Propaganda” by Jacques Ellul: published in ’65, it’s still the best account/analysis of all this kind of BS

  11. I’m so grateful that I grew up right across the river from there, and that now I only visit crazy from time-to-time. How hard is it to just think for yourself?

  12. …yes, humpty, i also say thanks for the link…

    …a fanciful thought would be to wonder, should parallel universes really exist, just how interesting would it be to live in the one where the noam chomsky’s & the bertrand russell’s are recognized for their genius, their humanity & their clairvoyance & whose thoughts are put into practical application ???…

    “you might say that i’m a dreamer…” & you’d be fucking right but the real intellects, the one’s w/ the capacity to offer real solutions are labeled as eccentrics & mostly disregarded…

    …we’re all for the most part, designed to solve problems w/in our very own limited set of circumstances & to scrabble for survival…we mostly all have a capacity for humanity & empathy beyond ourselves & that’s a good thing but if the “powers that be” had any real intelligence, people like chomsky & russell (who died nearly 40 years ago) would be revered & listened to…

    …& we wouldn’t need “powers that be”…we’d all be working together to share the proper tools for a better life…

    …anyway, sometimes i am a dreamer & shouldn’t think there’s any reason to wonder why…& if i hear just one crack about ‘socialist’ or other nonsense, i’ll prob’ly start slingin’…

  13. johnny, i love you man, but you need to quit being such a knee jerk liberal.

    you know as well as anyone that the government can’t be trusted, that politicians are liars, and they fuck up pretty much everything they touch. what makes you think that that’ll all suddenly change when they take control of heath care?

    face it, the free market isn’t perfect, but its the best option that exists for getting the most people the best goods and services at the cheapest prices possible. that’s fact, pure and simple.

    specter is an ass. he’s a dude that’s been living off of the public dole for his entire adult life. if he has to deal with a little grief because someone is justifiably pissed because he’s about to help foster in socialized medicine in the US, so what…?

    thanks man…and more ass pics, please.

    your pal
    burt

  14. Chris,
    Don’t mention it. Your site, The Fold Blog, is all good from where I’m standing.

    Check it out, people. You might like what you see.

    KG, dave and SmartyPants, you can just mail in your disapproval now! (just kidding, homies. glad to have you aboard this crazytrain.)

  15. Burt,
    I’ll have to write out something when I have more time about how health care does not belong in the “free market”. It’s nothing short of extortion. Really. I don’t use that term by accident. One side has all the leverage. All of it. There is no “free market” about it. When you need care, you need care. Right. Now. You do not “shop around”, you do not “compare prices”, you do not “reward those that bring the best price”. Instead you pay whatever is asked because you are 1) unconscious (as I was), 2) it’s your fucking kid on that table, or 3) you don’t have time to “shop around”.

    It’s not a “free” market by any stretch of the imagination.

  16. The issue seems to be the money, as usual. It seems like we’re more willing to pay more for HMOs that provide questionable services with high copays, rather than pay thru taxes to a single provider, which we already do in the form of SSI and Medicare/aid (which are failing horribly due to the aforementioned government management). As a public servant, I can attest to the corruption and laziness in the systems (especially NYS/NYC/JERZ). Too bad it’s already regulating the “free market” healthcare system. Who knows, maybe they would have worked if the insurance lobby hadn’t bought lawmakers after deregulation, but that’s nothing new.

    The sad thing is that heath care has become a political issue, and you can blame the Dems for that – just like you can blame the GOP for politicizing sexual preference and religion.

    The irony is that the GOP is concerned about saving healthcare all of a sudden after ignoring smoking, AIDS, obesity, pesticides and industrial pollution, and the litany of other preventable chronic diseases.

  17. Thanks Jonny! It’s new so I’m still working out some kinks but traffic is way up. I’ll be adding a link to here as well.

  18. “face it, the free market isn’t perfect,”

    Burt— the so-called free market does not serve. Have you been paying attention this last two years? Notice anything happen to your “free market” equity investments? How about your “free market” real estate values? The “free market” banking and auto industries? Notice anything happening to your “free market” environment?

    The “free market” health care solution is another failure. Those who support it are INVARIABLY insured. What about the fifty million or so who are not? You know the answer: “I got mine, so fuck ‘em.” That’s real christian of you.

  19. the unfortunate part of all this is the number of sheep vs. the number of non-sheep. I really don’t believe anyone willing to make a comment here is a sheep, rather they are someone who has attained critical thinking, logistical reasoning and the ability to form opinions and even change them if/when more information becomes available.

    I tip my hat to the dude for having the guts to stand up and call out Specter, most people would have been too scared. I would assume that is why the big guy tried to stop him. He was scared for the outcome if he (the big guy) did what he was trying to stop. The big guy is a conformist. Think about it.

    The whole think is corrupt, and everyone here knows it. We might disagree on what is/isn’t, but as a whole, the table is tilted…and not in our direction.

    When the American public can decide to put their differences and petty arguments aside and join together as one majority-party, only then will things change. As long as Demon-crats and Re-pelicans are polarized by the media that are controlled by those same people, which keeps the majority American public afraid/ignorant/stupid/etc., we all lose.

    Thanks for the link Humpty.

  20. I have care, I have choices. Every September I’m given a list of choices on the type of health insurance. I want and how much I want taken out of my paycheck for it. There is the “Cadillac” plan, cost, more gives me lots of options and choices for doctors and services. There is also a cheaper HMO version options and even those have various levels of choice.

    How dare you fuckers ask me to give that up. When my daughter was having seizures as a young girl and the local neurologist wasn’t working out I called up and got her sent to Stanford to seen by people there and they got her on the correct medications and levels.

    Can you guarantee me that Obamacare will give me that freedom? I didn’t have to ask for approval, I called and made an appointment.

    If you can’t then fuck off.

  21. KG. No one is asking you to give up your fucking private insurance, asshole.

    Get informed.

    You want to keep your insurance? Fine. Fuck you. Keep it. No one… NOT ONE PERSON is asking you to stop having private insurance.

    Fucks sake people, it’s not private versus public. Its so that poor fuckers who DONT have the option to get super-duper private ‘I sent my daughter to Stanford medical’ insurance, can at least get the basic care anyone should get. You want to keep paying for your private Blue Cross / Blue Shield or whoever your insurer is??? Fuck it. go for it. No one is stopping you.

    Get it thru your thick fucking skull… its not about taking ‘yours’ away… it’s about making sure others are covered at least for the basic bullshit that would cost the uninsured masses a few hundred dollars.

    I’d love to hear Gnome, BJ and other bike mechanics stories about how great their coverage was when they got injured. Anyone on here uninsured and have to visit a doc? How much did THAT cost? I had to pay $275 to visit a doctor in the states when I had a cold that was eating me up. “Stay in bed, drink fluids, and take Ibuprofen if it really sucks.” he said.

    Cost me $275 for that bit of wisdom. Because I was uninsured.

    Fuck you KG for being a fox-fed jackass who has not even the smallest grasp of facts.

  22. bgw, I never intended to come across as thinking these men were beneath me. We’re all human beings, and beneath me would have to be pretty low anyways. I am all for civil dissent and was disappointed that the man could only come up with “cronies, blah blah, GOD will judge you, blah blah cronies” granted he was upset and had been slightly manhandled. However, something tells me that there probably wasn’t a whole lot of substance to his originally planned speech. If there had been I would have to think that his first inclination would be to shout his main theme or talking point from it. I suspect that’s what we got.

    And if the guy with the Quran, Qur’?n, Koran, Alcoran or Al-Qur’?n was truly seeking truth he wouldn’t have espoused the xenophobic diatribe that he generalized (subsequently demonized) to all followers of Islam. That man didn’t read another religions text in order to come to a greater understanding of it, he read it to find passages that scare his bible group and further his own fear/hatred of other cultures (of course some of this is implied, but I know the type). Religious groups have extremists who twist their holy books for their own agendas and he obviously failed to see that Christians are not entirely innocent of this (remember, he likes the Jews and the Christians).

    The truth can definitely be elusive and I applaud anyone who is searching for it. But most of the time people are just bringing their preconceived notions, stereotypes, religious doctrines, party affiliations along with them for the ride which causes them to fail miserably.

    Have a good one.

  23. Uninsured bikeshop employee you say? Dude I work with slipped a pedal and shattered his collar bone two months ago. $4,000. A few days after, the meds they put him on gave him some sort of upper GI seizure and we had to rush him to the ER. We thought he was having a heart attack, and the docs did too, so they piled on test after test and kept him overnight. $17,000. So, $21,000 later, he still has no insurance and is trying to find a way to NOT file bankruptcy because collection agents are already after him…6 weeks later. Think about how much that would be if he really had a heart attack… or worse.

    Yeah, fuck healthcare for the uninsured. Guess we would rather people like him start to deny treatment they need because they are afraid of financial ruin.

  24. So bikepunk… So Obama wants to “overhall” the healthcar system… but nothing is going to change? Wow.

    Oh wait.. Obama has already proven to be a liar.

    He told me if we spent 800Billion unemploeyment won’t go above 8%.

    He told me the stimulus bill had to be signed right away and there was no time to read it… and then waited 4 days to sign it.

    He told me there would be no lobyists in his administration.

    Liar.

    He has a history of incompetance a being a liar, and here we have someone who calles himself bike’punk’ tell me that I should trust the government.

    You should really rename yourself because there is not a punk bone left in your body.

  25. Noam is a conspirator-light, he holds back to keep his family safe and to stay a linguist. In the background he’s telling you a few people control us all, but he never really takes it to task. He says the CFR is nothing, but look at the collusion here: http://www.cfr.org/

    From p. 24 of “The New Freedom” by Woodrow Wilson:

    Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

    They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him.

    We now see evidence that the CFR and Trilateral Commision are a part of this shadow government, yet there are still so many who vehemently deny it. I will repeat myself, when I would mention this stuff on other forums durning the Bush years I was a left wing wacko, and now with Obama I’m supposedly a right wing gun toting God fearing ignoramus.

    The point is we don’t need these people to have a nice life on earth. We don’t need the UN and we have seen time and time again how they get bogged down when it comes time to stop actual genocide. We don’t need to join Canada and Mexico in an open border union to have wealth and prosperity for all. Being a constitutionalist and believing in liberty are not part of the right or left shitstorm.

    I have my own uninsured horror story and I’m pissed that several trillions have been sent to somewhere for something nobody really knows anything about. We could literally fucking open our hospitals to the world for this kind of cash. Where the fuck is our money going? Again, why do the unaccountable get all our money for nothing and with no guarantee of success in our investment and no right to even see the actual plan by the Federal Reserve to get us out of this mess.

    And for those who think I’m a Jew hater, just do some simple queries and you will find many Jewish people against the forced occupation of Israel. You will even find Jews who say they don’t blame the people of Germany for the holocaust.

  26. King George,
    Assuming everything you’ve said about Obama is correct (and what the hell, it ain’t my job to put him on a pedestal), I still have to ask about incompetence?

    Look, I’m not happy about the economy or lobbyists. But the lies, as you call them, are not the same as incompetence.

  27. “How dare you fuckers ask me to give that up.”

    kg— you can buy any health care you choose. How dare you deny that to fifty million lower- and middle-class Americans. This is pretty simple stuff.

  28. “Where the fuck is our money going?”

    schulz— mega-billion dollar insurance companies, mostly. And you’re okay with that?

  29. not according to this: bailout.propublica.org and no i’m not ok with it… the banks fund big insurance and wall st. so they’re going to require the biggest bailout of all. practically a bank a day is failing now. good the FDIC is there for joe sixpack, but that doesn’t explain or excuse financial irresponsibility. how’d these idiots end up with such a mass of toxic assets, who profited from them and why aren’t they being held responsible. joe ends up bailing these bastards out and paying them interest on it. good for them shitty for joe.

  30. …pfaff…no harm, no foul (fowl ???)…

    …we’re prob’ly both coming from a pretty similar viewpoint…& ya, my own abject frustrations often leave me “short leashed” if you will…

    …but i generally try to have a certain tolerance for ignorance if it seems like people are at least trying to educate themselves & i saw both those guys as at least trying…(btw, i developed tolerance by simply realizing the leeway i’m given for my own ignorance in certain circles)…

    “he read it to find passages that scare his bible group and further his own fear/hatred of other cultures (of course some of this is implied, but I know the type)”…i understand where yer thought comes from & while it is true of many, my take is that the circumstances that evolved out of 9/11, ie:- “the war on terror” scared the shit out of so many folks, so deeply that some of ‘em genuinely wanted to try & understand the thought process of our “enemies”…

    …my point about this guy & his reading of the koran, would be that yes he is trying to “understand” the concept of islam, on his own but w/out someone to help him interpret what he’s actually reading, he did find passages that scared the shit out of him & rather than delve deeper, he unfortunately allowed for what he read to reinforce that xenophobic viewpoint you mention & ya, he’s prob’ly always had…& therein lies a dichotomy…

    …willing to learn – vs – doesn’t really have a clue what he’s exposing himself to…

    …<i?"Religious groups have extremists who twist their holy books for their own agendas"…no fucking doubt…always have & unfortunately always will…

    …& as regards “the truth”, well, sometimes folks don’t recognize it even when they do find it…

  31. “not according to this: bailout.propublica.org and no i’m not ok with it…”

    schulz— I looked at that web site and didn’t see any post relevant to your “shadow government” conspiracy. Boy, do they have an agenda, though.

    Let me sum it up from my perspective: well over 90% of every dollar I’ve ever spent on health care has gone to mega-billion dollar, private, for-profit insurance companies. In the last ten years or so, I have not had any choice as to which of these companies I deal with: it’s either they take their premiums right out of my paycheck, or tough shit, no health care at all.

    This is obviously fucked up, a system of failure on a truly epic scale. Private, for-profit insurance companies are not getting the health care job done. They’ve had their chance, and they can still “compete” for our health care dollars with the federal government, but health care needs to be available to everyone. To deny health care to fifty million Americans, in a country where health care costs MORE than most large, western nations is just… fucked up.

    Mikey

    PS— I own a small, private stake in a bank in Tempe AZ, and we’ve lost almost everything. Judging from recent damage-control emails from the Board, the recent shareholders meeting did not go well. Where was the Fed when all this bad banking was going on? Where was the “free market?”

  32. KG :
    “Dead or Alive ”
    Liar

    “Weapons of Mass Destruction”
    “Mushroom Cloud”
    Liar.

    Again… you are attacking me, not answering the point I made. Thank you for playing, there is the exit. You no longer have to play here.

    As if the Republicans have anything else to offer but “NO NO NO ! ! !” They still have yet to offer a credible alternative.

  33. Mikey, I only linked to propublica.org because of the graph on the top of the bailout page, it seems pretty fair.

    The shadow government exists. They’re supposed to only come into play when the nation is under attack, and the President and Congress are gone or off in hiding or whatever. It should be a total secret but Cheney and Rumsfeld spoiled that. People in the CFR and such vie for positions in the shadow government. These are some real power positions as they’ve decided they’ll run us without a congress in those times. I wish I knew the best place for you to look into this, but if you want proof you’re going to have to start doing some heavy research on your own. We’re talking about espionage and theft on the most grand scale.

    Believe me, I hope if we do get a UHC plan it’s retroactive. . . medical bills suck!

    I resent the government and all their ridiculously expensive secrets. I should just forget about it except I do worry about the future. Several of you want to write these “conspiracies” off as pure nonsense, but I’m not entirely convinced these guys actually know just how sinister shit is out there. Spy agencies employ psychopaths and sociopaths to do their business. Yeah, there’s plenty of regular good old boys working for the CIA or whatever, but when there’s some less pleasant work to be done you better believe they’ve got droves of people ready to go do literally anything.

  34. Incompetence…. BO asks for 800 Billion to keep unemployment less than 8%., unemployment 9.4% Well, I guess in some worlds that’s competence. Maybe in a lawyer’s world it’s competence but it’s not mine.

    So he’s a liar and incompetent.

    He’s poll numbers are dropping because people are finally seeing him for the Jimmy Carter that he is.

    How many bills is he going to ask people to pass without reading… Is that competence?

    The CARS program. It was so poorly planned that it ran out of money and had to be refunded in a week. That’s how competent the guy is. A simple plan couldn’t not even be run for a week without running out of money. I guess that’s suposed to be a sign of success.

    BO is incompetent, you know it. He’s in over his head. He’s inexperienced and an ideologue. When pressured he jumps back to ideology.. that’s why he calls cops stupid after admitting he doesn’t know the facts of the issue.

    I still can’t believe the white house is asking for people to turn people in and you guys just sit there and accept it.

    Hypocrites.

  35. kg – please back up your claims with verifiable links/details. and do you think obama was going to magically fix this bullshit in a few months. C’mon, if this was your man, you would be saying something like “hey, he inherited it, give it time” wouldn’t you?

    Healthcare. It is fucked up from A-Z. I pay through my company and each year it gets more expensive. Not on course with inflation, but I have to guess on course with what remains profitable for the companies along the gravy train. It is slick. You want cheap, no problem, but don’t bitch when you see a mandated Dr. and get cheap care. You want everyting you could ask for? You’ll pay for it. Probably a lot. And you first must be blessed.

    Free markets have a way of adjusting, which means sometimes things are cool and sometimes you get fucked in the back door. HARD. Things don’t magically fix themselves overnight.

    How can you explain something like prescriptions for example?
    You pay a copay, maybe 40 bucks for med-x. that could be 100mg or 400 mg. How is that? We buy everything else by some unit of measure. Doesn’t that seem just a little bit off?

    The insurance companies are a major issue. Fix them and you can help overall healthcare, probably across the board. Ask a Dr. how much time they spend dealing with issues with insurance companies. Lots of bullshit there, and it is only for the benefit of those at the top of the profit ladder.

    As long as the big insurance companies can muscle whoever they feel needs it, healthcare is going to be a problem, because, as previously stated, when you need it you can’t really shop around. You have to deal with it and suck up the aftermath. Russian roulette sometimes.

    If you want some good insight into the healthcare system, talke to someone in a small company who has to work on company healthcare plans. Talked about screwed either way… Not enough employees? higher premiums. Everyone healthy the past few years? higher premiums. someone is gonna get REALLY sick sooner or later, thats statistics. gotta load up now to prepare for the inevitable. It is a free market but the consumer has some serious issues. And in many cases, our lazy, bad habit practicing asses are the root cause. We, as a whole, can’t take good care of ourselves. Thus we, as a general group, pay for it. And there are plenty of opportunists glad to take advantage of that.

  36. I read our country spends the largest portion of GDP on healthcare, and that is with millions and millions uninsured. One reason more than 60% of our health care costs pay for “administration” is that lobbyists are, as I write, spending BILLIONS of our health care payments. They will be spent as thinly disguised BRIBES to our elected officials. If I were cynical I would say the health care charade that transpires every few years is just an empty threat designed to scare the medical ins industry so they will pour BILLIONS into the reelection coffers of our politicians.

  37. Bikepunk:

    You ignorant ignoramus.

    The House bill provides that everyone will be enrolled in the national healthcare plan unless they opt out. That’s right, you are in unless you opt out.

    And if you opt out, you and your employer get hit with tax surcharges.

    So, you are technically correct to say that a person can keep private health care insurance. But to do so, you pay a BIG tax hit.

    Oh, and if you change jobs, you HAVE to enroll in the national plan.

    Take a look at what has been happening in the U.S. Government has been meddling in health care to a greater degree over the last 50 years. It appears you would agree that healthcare costs have risen over that period to a far greater degree than inflation even.

    VA, medicare and medicaid are RIFE with fraud and inefficiency.

    Do you hear ANYONE touting the greatness of VA medical care? Yet you favor turning the entire private healthcare system into VA medical care.

    The radical left thinking is that the problem is that government does not yet have enough control over healthcare (and the rest of the economy).

    The political moderates and the right believe that the problem is too much government interference in healthcare.

    Obama nationalizing healthcare will be a disaster.

    On the one hand, leftists are for “choice.” Choice to abort a baby. Choice to terminate the life of someone terminal or merely aged. (But against choice to execute someone convicted of heinous anti-social acts.)

    The proposed nationalized medicine would preclude you privately paying a physician to treat you outside the national healthcare plan. There would be no privilege to choose care outside the national plan.

    Ergo, your waving the banner of “choice” has nothing to do with freedom to choose, but instead is merely a euphemism for “I am all for women killing feti in utero.”

    Review history as seen in the former USSR. Here is what will happen here. The government state will nationalize huge swaths of the economy. The grassroots will suffer economic inefficiencies (remember reading of huge lines of people waiting for a chance to buy bread and other staples such as toilet paper in empty retail stores? Remember reading of soviets visiting supermarkets in the U.S. believing that such stores were mere Western propaganda? Have you read of the current absence of toilet paper in Cuba, and that Cuba has a plan to acquire sufficient toilet paper — by the end of the year?) The government centralized plan economy eventually will collapse. The government will than privatize the economy by spinning of nationalized resources to political cronies. A few will become monopolistic instant billionaires a la Russian oligarchs.

    The upshot is that the ultimate outcome of Obama’s nationalizing the economy will be concentration of economic resources from the many to a few oligarchs.

    And there will be great suffering for the rest.

    Elections have consequences. Obama and his blind followers such as you won. It is inevitable that Obama’s radical social and economic policies will be established.

    And we all will suffer, including you who voted for Obama and the brilliant Biden.

  38. For an analysis of a few fun provisions of the House health care bill, see

    http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm

    It quotes language from the bill. There are no ad hominem attacks, no political posturing, just language from the legalese bill and plane english interpretation.

    For your reading pleasure.

  39. Mea culpa. That would be “plain english,” not “plane english.” Nice grammar.

  40. STY,
    I have a question about something you wrote above:

    “Choice to terminate the life of someone terminal or merely aged.”

    The point, I think, is who makes that choice. Is it my choice? For example: Do I have the choice to pursue a greater risk on an unproven treatment option, that is perhaps still in the research stage and I am to be part of a clinical trial? Or, do I have the choice to ride out the rest of my days in the comfort care of hospice?

    Or is the choice made for me? The trial is unproven and prohibitively expensive. You are going to hospice.

    It’s all about who makes the choice, isn’t it? Is an individual in control of their own medical destiny, or are they not? Me or the unknown scary “them”? Me or, in the recent parlance of the all-too-common Sarah Palin, “death panels”?

    It’s a big difference.

    And, of course, it leads to the question of how much control the average citizen has now over their own medical care. To be clear (and I’m pressed for time) we already ration care in this county. It is a reality.

    How much control should the individual have? Is there a point where it is too much? Tough question. I’m not sure what the answer is. Undoubtedly we will fix it (and the balance of the world’s problems) on these very pages.

  41. “Do you hear ANYONE touting the greatness of VA medical care?”

    STY— so many misapprehensions, I’ll just tick off a few highlights.

    Yes. Vets, mostly.

    “Review history as seen in the former USSR. Here is what will happen here.”

    I see, we’ve moved from the dreaded specter of “socialism” to full-blown communism. Hoo boy.

    “A few will become monopolistic instant billionaires a la Russian oligarchs.”

    You mean sort of like mega-billion dollar insurance companies?

    And you still fail to mention the fifty million Americans that might get health care out of the deal.

    Glad to help.

    Mikey

  42. STY,
    “The upshot is that the ultimate outcome of Obama’s nationalizing the economy will be concentration of economic resources from the many to a few oligarchs.”

    Umm, we have the highest concentration of wealth in the lowest proportion of the population that we have had at any time since the 20s. If you are going to tout the right’s talking points, try no to do it with ones that are so patently false.