Doping is as doping does

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I’ll start off this little tirade with That’s where the pic is from. That’s who’s kicking this off. And that’s Lord God King Dude’s got so much game, you might as well bow.

Flick had a good take on yesterday’s press release: “It would be really hard to keep my word, and you guys really aren’t smart enough to understand that stuff anyway. So just trust me, I’m not doping.”

Lets say its 1994, you’re a world class rider, and you’ve got to go out and compete against guys like Berzin and the other doped up Michele-Ferrari-created-robots at teams like Gewiss-Ballan who win by taking (what were then) undetectable products made by recombinant technology. If you’re someone who makes their living by racing your bike, at that point in time I think it would be completely rational to decide to take the same products in order to be competitive. I’m not saying its the right decision, but I fully understand how someone gets there.

Now here’s the thing: Its no longer 1994. Its no loner 1999. Its no longer 2006, even. If you fucked up in the past, that’s okay, but spare us all the sanctimonious charade and just admit it, for Christ-fucking-sake. What Alex Rodriguez did the other day took balls. Telling the truth and admitting your mistakes takes fucking guts. If you want to get past an issue, though, its really the only way. Lance keeps complaining that his critics (of which I certainly am) will never go away. He’s right, as you can never please everyone. He could silence most of them and have a chance of putting his doping past behind him, though, if he just told the truth.

Of course, that’s all predicated on the assumption that he’s stopped.

All right, enough of that shit.

This is from an Angel Puerta piece from way back in September of 2004. Seems pretty relevant to the conversation of late.

Lance Armstrong is guilty of doping under common-sense standard
The recent decision by the US Anti-Doping Agency to adopt a lower standard of proof for doping cases is a welcomed addition to the scant arsenal of weapons available against the ever more sophisticated users of performance-enhancing drugs in the world of sports. Athletes need no longer be proven guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt” in doping cases-a near impossibility in many instances-but rather they must be proven guilty “to the comfortable satisfaction” of the panels hearing their cases.

The new standard brings common sense into the pursuit of a level playing field. Obvious cheaters, such as Greek sprinters Kostas Kenteris and Katerina Thanou, can no longer hide beyond a “we have never tested positive” gimmick that is built upon clever drugs and astute event and training schedules. Instead, evidence of associations with persons known to facilitate the distribution of drugs, abnormal improvements in performance, and even hearsay, will all be admissible when judging athletes. The standard recognizes in practice what we all know or suspect: that the technology behind the production and administration of performance-enhancing drugs is nearly always ahead of that of drug testing. As a result, athletes universally suspected of wrongdoing spend entire careers achieving records and staying one step ahead of the law.

Comfortable satisfaction brings into the forefront an event that purposely avoids using it, and an athlete who could be the poster child for it: The Tour de France and Lance Armstrong, respectively. Armstrong has been dodged for years by doping accusations and has remained free of final judgment thanks to a lack, but not an absence, of positive tests, and a convenient racing schedule that minimizes testing opportunities.

However, if we eliminate the “beyond a reasonable doubt” requirement, the case for Armstrong being a cheater is very strong, if not completely conclusive. Let us examine the evidence at hand…
Read more:

As to the assertation that his accusers have “ulterior motives”:

Frankie and Lance had been good friends since the early 1990s, when they were teammates on Motorola. After Armstrong’s recovery, he and then-wife Kristin often dined with the Andreus.

The Andreus say they didn’t want to testify in the SCA case. They refused to obey a subpoena issued by a Texas court, claiming it lacked jurisdiction. SCA promptly obtained an “ex parte” order, and had the subpoena issued in Michigan, where the Andreus live. “We went in and decided not to lie,” Frankie told SI, “and all hell broke loose.”

Asked what Andreu had to gain from lying, Armstrong claims that Betsy is motivated by “bitterness, jealousy and hatred.” Members of Armstrong’s inner circle point to a section of Betsy’s testimony in the SCA case where, they contend, she expressed her “hatred” for him. Armstrong’s attorney Tim Herman noted, in his cross examination of Betsy, that “one of the notes you provided to us had a notation on it by you, ‘Why do I hate Lance?’ Correct?”

Andreu explained that she was “going through some of the questions I believe you’re going to ask me, and one of them is: ‘Why do I hate Lance?’ That’s what it is. It’s not me asking myself out loud ‘Why do I hate Lance?’ That’s not what it is.”

“Well,” Herman replied, “there’s a difference between ‘Why do I hate Lance?’ and ‘Do I hate Lance?’ You obviously hate Lance.”

And so Team Armstrong has contended, ever since.
Read more:

Ignoring a subpoena really sounds like someone who is just chomping at the bit to schmear the greatest athlete in the history of the world.

Good night and good luck.

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

54 Replies to “Doping is as doping does”

  1. “schmear the greatest athlete in the history of the world”

    Can you name a person with any credibiltiy who has characterized lance as the greatest athlete in the world? Possibly someone with no real expertise in the area of sports, but that brings us back to the credibility question.

    “Ignoring a subpoena really sounds like someone who is just chomping at the bit to schmear”

    Or could it be that perhaps they had nothing more than heresay, and that heresay was directly contradicted by everyone else in the room at time including doctors and nurses? Really, do you think an oncologist with any interest at all in saving peoples lives would deny lance admitted to PED abuse if lance actually admitted it? Lance was no one at the time. The LAf didn’t exist, and there would have been no impetus for any medical professional to cover up his drug use.

    The SI article is right on the money. All these allegations have proven to be little more than that. Presumption based on jealousy, inference from misconstrued statements, and outright fraudulent muckracking.

    Really Jonny, for somoeone who complained so vociferously about bush/cheney suspending the writ of habeas corpus in the patriot act, I find your repeated insistence that arstrong doped more than a little hypocritical.

    I’m not saying lance did or did not dope. I don’t know. I don’t have access to any real evidence that shows he did. For that fact, neither do you or anyone else who contributes to this site. Shrieking like ann coulter on this issue does the whole issue very little justice.

    In the end what does it really matter to you, me, or any of the other lance haters you seem to promote? If anything armstrong did proved detrimental to the sport, I could see a point, but his involvement has proven to be the biggest boon to cycling this country has ever seen. His benefit to the sport has been immeasurable, and any detriment is being overblown, overstated, and to this point, quite insignificant. Your and others constant anti-lance chanting comes across to those not-so-involved in the sport as no different than rightwing radio hate speech.

    Lances involvement in the sport benefits me because people on the roads show me more respect as I cruise past a line of traffic clad in lycra. Once a month at work, someone asks for my advice on buying or fixing a bike. Before lance, I actually had co-workers call me ‘stupid’ for commuting by bike – that hasn’t happened since lance started winning the tour.

    Tell me honestly, do you really beleive that lance being driven from the sport could in _any_ way be benficial to the sport? Are you really so naive to think that lance being driven away would give young racers pause in making the decision to dope or not? If anything, I could see it having the effect of driving talented riders away from the sport, Why bother with professional racing if, when you win, everyone accuses you of doping?

    The burden of proof is on you haters. That’s the way our system of justice works. You think I took drugs? You need to prove it, not just keep up a rush limbaugh-esqe hate chant. That’s where we are. There is no proof. All the accusations have been conjecture or heresay, all the ‘proof’ has been generated under dubious circumstances or downright bogus, and the more you keep pushing discredited ‘evidence’ the more it makes you look like a intelligent design kook.

    To re-iterate: I do ot know that lance did or did not dope, but I know that his influence has given my passion credibility and acceptance, rather than the old ridicule and beer bottles being flung from pick-up trucks.

    Peace Out, Mother Fucker.

  2. Zen & bat wing, my opinion is not-at-all changed after reading your comments. I have done too much media/book research over the years to think LA was clean.

    BTW, my passion in/for racing & coaching were/are very negatively effected by LA’s antics. I cannot expand, as it would be too lengthy.

    Jonny (& Flick & Doucheblog) – thanks for the excellent posts!

  3. “And that’s Lord God King Dude’s got so much game, you might as well bow.”

    Spot on. Doucheblogcycling is a good one, and dude gets respect for busting his ass all winter in Pennsylvania doing some serious training.

    Something I have noticed is, that the opinion of Lance generally deteriorates as the category of rider goes up in the racing world. Don’t see a whole lot of livestrong bracelets in the Pro/1/2 fields, but seems like every other rec rider has one. Maybe those that know the inner workings of the sport better know a bit more?

  4. I think Pirata has a point. As you learn more about the sport, or progress up the ranks, you get more skeptical, and more cynical about people riding and racing around you. Hell, I had one of my elite team teammates got bounced for 2 years for taking EPO. And I know for certain that he wasn’t the only one doing PEDs just in the local region that I used to race in.

    Lance elevated the sport of cycling in the US, and gave it a lot more exposure than I’m sure it would have had if he had never ridden a bike. The first poster, you’re wrong. Lance was already someone when he got cancer. Even at that time, he was considered the best American cyclist riding at the time, had been a classics winner, world championship winner, and had won any number of many races in and around the US at that time. To say he wasn’t known, just indicates to me that you didn’t start following cycling until after he started winning, which is fine, but just remember he did shit before.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I get harassed just as much now as I did before, and still get hit with bottles, and trash at least a few times per year.

  5. “Lance Armstrong is guilty of doping under common-sense standard”

    Jonny, et al-

    “Some animals are more equal than others.” -George Orwell.

    Long Live The Revolution, Comrade!

  6. Every guy that has won the tour in the years right before and after lance has been busted or is under a cloud of suspicion. Most of the guys on the podium and in the top 5 are in the same boat. Are we really to believe that Lance is the only one that didn’t dope? If you believe that, I’d imagine you think the average lineman in the NDL is clean as well because most of them have never testive positive either.

    Now, I still think Lance’s accomplishments are amazing. 7 in a row of anything is un-fucking-real. He still had to do the work, have the determination, suffer over the mountains, and have a little luch, etc. Best I can tell, he made one mistake in 7 years (the time he bonked). He also has done a lot for the sport in the US and for cancer survivors. But, just like you don’t hit 60+ homers without a little help, or run the 100meters in under 10 seconds without a little help, you also don’t ride a bike that fast and far for so many days at that level without some help (especially when it turns out everyone you beat was doing it).

    And one other thing. What A-rod did really didn’t take balls. He was Mr. Denial right up until the moment someone had evidence. After that it was a PR play to put it behind him. Heck, he had seen that play two years running. It’s no different than a politician: deny it until someone has proof; see if you can find a why out of it/hide; and when the box is about to be closed around you, appear on TV, cry a little and appologize.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am happy he finally came clean. But, in my book, it is worth much less because he did it AFTER he was called on the carpet.

  7. This is what I’m not understanding about the whole A Rod thing either. He came clean, same as Millar did, when he finally got busted, red handed, more or less. And A Rod did it what? 6 years ago? It didn’t take balls. If it took balls, he would have come clean about, oh, 6 fucking years ago. That would have been ballsy. If Millar had been ballsy and as great as everyone claims he is now, he would have come clean right after he won the World Championships, instead of carrying out the charade for awhile, throwing and disparaging this teammates, when he had done the same exact thing.

    As Avoit said above, Lance won 7 in a row. That’s amazing. Really, it truly is. Look at the podiums and the guys standing around him. Look at the top 10 of those years, most of those guys have gotten busted for doping. You mean to tell us that he is really that superhuman? And before someone comes in here spouting off the nonsense that he’s physiologically better than everyone else, that’s just not true. Sure, he’s a lot better than you and me, but in the world of pro cycling, he’s about average in his V02 values, and power outputs. And the whole myth of him being lighter after cancer, well, that’s a lie as well. He weighed about the same, or just a little less after his first win then before he got cancer. Who was the doc that wrote that book about Armstrong’s physiological testing parameters? I can’t remember his name, but his data has been refuted by a lot of people.

    I’m just saying, it’s still an amazing feat, but something just doesn’t seem “right”. Can I prove it? Nope, I can’t. Do I have a “feeling”? Yeah, absolutely.

  8. …whoa & wow !!!…it “direct linked” on it’s own…i’m a computer genius & i didn’t even know it…
    …nah…sometimes it’s just better to be lucky than good…

    …just sayin’…

  9. All this Lance doping talk sounds like it’s coming from a bunch of butt-hurt losers. He has the best trainers, nutrition, equipment, etc, etc, that money can buy. Not to mention he’s a genetic freak and he’s incredibly talented. He’s the best that has ever been and some people are willing to go to any lengths to bring down the king.

    It is no wonder that Armstrong is beginning to respond to accusations of doping with hostility. He has built a legacy, hell, a kingdom for himself and his allies. Do you think he’s going to let anybody take that away from him without a fight? Hell no. His record speaks for its self. 7 TDF victories, 0 positive tests. Period.

  10. my random shit

    “and a convenient racing schedule that minimizes testing opportunities”

    I never looked at it that way. good point. I think the motherfucker doped… Just like I think Andreu is a mancunt…I think ARod did more than he is letting on just like I think Jose Consenco is a mancunt

    Watching the ARod press dealio the second time around I said to myself… you know what, I just don’t give a fuck if he did or didn’t. I really don’t and At this point I don’t give a fuck if Lance did or is any more. If they did they got over just like I got over on the dude who forgot his water bttle and Gu this morning.

    Back to ESPn and the ARod dealio… one thing I don’t buy is all the sports reporters turned morality police suddenly. Fuck thos hacks. How many lines have they stolen or how much shit have they made up or sensationalized away from the facts to get a cover? Now they can crisify Dudes?

    For those of you who know me I have kicked a dead dog more than once with Tyler Hamilton and Floyd… Both dopers. Both liars. Both cunts for that matter up until this Amgen Tour of Cali that is. Props to the both of them for the humble pie and the head down pedal turning pain siffering this week. nice work and good luck from this point forward.

    On another note; The TOur of Cali sucks. Sure they had a big field but it was just a 2 day time trial with a lot of circus promotion inbetween. All thos other stages didnt mean shit. and what a bunch of ass clowns we Califirnia fans are. What was all that shit going on? Dude running with a baby? Dudes falling infront of riders. Say what you want about the French fans, at least they can handle their sport. I mean I remember my first Bike Race….

    Never mind the 09 Test schedule Lance forgot he promised. No mention of testing at Amgem I mena they invented most of this shit they should find it

    Jonny, what exactly is it you are learnng in law school anyway

  11. One thing we all miss on the ARod, Roger and Bonds thing: Their numbers were there on a Hall pace before the dope. So in my opinion, dope or not they are still first ballot


  12. …re:- the ass clowns “we” california fans are…i agree…

    …we are dealing w/ professional cyclists, men who earn their living & provide for their families by racing bicycles…(nice work if you can get it) but the truth is, the open road is their office, their workspace…

    …are you telling me some fucking clown w/ his own selfish agenda, ie:- yellow needle-dick, the various “horns on football helmets” morons, who insist on running that close to the gruppetto, do not create anxiety & constantly jeopardize that livelihood ???…

    …frankie andreu commented today on the fact that in europe even the rabid tifosi are there to show respect to the sport but that here in america these costumed fucking fools are just looking to get their faces on tv…

    …every year it gets worse…time to get a clue before a situation occurs…in litigious america, some selfish idiot will get hurt “showing off” & then sue the race organizers for his own stupidity…
    …he won’t win his case but it will create liability issues for the sport here…
    …how about a little common sense & self-policing ???…

  13. TJ..

    Lance is no more a genetic freak than any other pro bike racer. He puts out about the same power, as others in his category. He has a much lower VO2 than others. And this myth about his lactic acid flushing ability is pure bullshit. As I mentioned before there have been many sports physiologists who have doubted those conclusions. And when you say Armstrong had the best trainers, damn right, he trained under Ferrari, dope giver extraordinaire. Don’t believe for one fucking second that Chris Carmichael was behind his success. Bullshit. It was all Ferrari.

    TJ, you sound like you like the sport and all, but you apparently don’t know jack about it, or Armstrong’s history. You claim he’s the best that’s ever been, that tells me something right there. That tells me you don’t know shit, because as far as being the best that’s ever been, it ain’t him. It’s a guy named Eddy (who probably doped a lot too).

    Oh, and Armstrong did have a positive test. He tested positive for corticoids and that was covered up with a BS TUE.

    You’re a Lance fanboy, and that’s fine, just open your eyes a little more.

  14. …butthead…i’d say the only real problem w/ the atoc is the fact that it’s held so early in the year…

    …a little later on in the season (if it could be fitted in) would mean the higher sierra passes could be utilized & i’m betting that would shake things up…& the scenery would be even more spectacular…

    …the aussie tour is an early season but it’s summer ‘down under’ even if guys aren’t fit…so, no problems down there, mate…

  15. giantcu92, I know all about lances history. I also know that he hasn’t been caught. My eyes are open. The things he did during the TDF were super human and raise a lot of questions but the bottom line is that he has never tested positive. Until he does, everybody that is accusing him doesn’t have a foot to stand on and should shut the hell up. Would you want to be judged solely on “associations” you have had in your past?

  16. giantcu92 – Oh, and I can only imagine that your handle refers to the bike you ride. Open your eyes… Giants suck.

  17. Agreed. It is early and there if the euros were shocked at the rain in cali then they should see the snow in the mtns above 6K

    Maybe they could make this the only race of the year with out radio contact for the riders. Not even Jens voigt could get away and the only realy exciting stage was the one where the weather killed the radios and the peloton was nervous about a break and had to gut check it.

  18. now now lets not shoot the bikes. just because performance carries a product don’t mean it sucks….well kinda

    “Don’t believe for one fucking second that Chris Carmichael was behind his success”

    no shit. have any of you ever read his shit or heard him talk about the soport and training? OK thanks CC I’ll drink more water as I am sure that is what gets lance over…OK got it I will increase my cadance too” It is like Frankie on VS telling us that “Time Trail bikes go really really fast”

    OH and BTW did anyone catch that stupid cunt playing the coed slut trying to make fun out of all the bike tech on VS? what in gods name was that shit?

    Not sure what they were trying to draw but all that came to mind everting I heard her talk was an after party teabag party

  19. Instead of debating with a bunch of bitter betsy’s i.e. every single mofo that replied above! I will just say one thing…
    It is always and always will be “the Have nots” that point the finger of blame away from themselves and towards the people who they have placed high upon a pedistal.
    by this I mean; you who use any means necessary to find flaws with the people of this sport that have succeeded way beyond your own aspirations will always find and dwell on the negative! Because it makes you feel better about your own meager existance. by the way Envy is one of the seaven deadly sins and it goes double for envy that invokes rage!

    my favorite quote from above is “I have done too much media/book research over the years to think LA was clean.” from bigfallsdown
    Now this is the most ignorant statement I have ever read… too much media? and Book research? I think you (bigfallsdown) need to do a little dictionary “research” on the terms “media bias” or “opinions” Vs “fact”
    The only “media/book” that is trustworthy in the slightest would be based on pure fact and hard evidence which there is absolutely none of that supports your factless basis that “LA is a doper”!
    This entire discussion whether Lance is a doper is completely biased and every single one of you are hypocrits and it is obvious your “word” isn’t worth the gigabytes it’s printed on!

  20. Mikey,

    Can you go get kidnapped and have some new shit happen to you? Jesus TF Christ, you say “et al” in every post.

    Read the fucking articles douchebags, he is guilty by the new standards of the new USADA policies. A la Kayle Leogrande in a picture.
    I want to believe him more than anyone, he is the only thing that gives my boy at hope. I just don’t.
    For fuck sake:

    I can go on and fucking on. They all got caught or admitted and LA dropped them all. Give me a fucking break.
    Mark my words….he will do the Giro and the Tour and fail at both. Then blame it on the old age and I just wanted to beat the disease…

  21. Nothing more agonizing than watching the “rocket” Clemens deny everything to congress. Down right arrogant, I could never live behind suck lies. Face the music adn sing about it.

  22. “Can you go get kidnapped and have some new shit happen to you? Jesus TF Christ, you say “et al” in every post.

    Mark my words….he will do the Giro and the Tour and fail at both.”

    Mr. Humpty-

    First, ‘et al’ is the correct salutation when addressing the author of a message and the others who are reading. When I am addressing the general audience, I usually use ‘Guys,’ and for a specific individual (generally when I’m flaming him), his handle. If you have a problem with my correct and clear use of English, I suggest that’s your issue, not mine.

    Second, I agree with you. I doubt that Mr. Armstrong can win the Tour again. He’s too old. I’d be extremely surprised if he rode the Giro AND the Tour, although I think it would be cool if he rode the Giro. In some years, the field for the Giro seems slightly thinner than the Tour’s, so he might make a race of it there.

    As for the topic at hand, you guys squeal like pigs at the slightest perceived injustice, yet you nail Lance Armstrong up WITH ZERO EVIDENCE, EVER. A textbook witch hunt. Hate all you want, but that’s just weak. Underlying that is a fundamental confusion between ‘sport’ and ‘entertainment.’ By and large, professional athletes undertake the latter, not the former. If you insist that your professional entertainers scrupulously refrain from drug use, well, good luck with that.


  23. Armstrong’s pharmacy weighs a ton… Mid-way thru the Giro, “It’s time to take the padlock off the freezer, boys, there’s a bike race to win.” Mmmm, drogas

  24. If it makes watching bikes go up hill 6 out of 21 days in July more exciting then by all means let them dope

    fuck it.

  25. Who gives a fuck….

    Name one cycling legend who wasn’t doped?

    Name one……..

    Doping is part of cycling… always has been…. taking doping out of cycling goes against years of history.

    It’s a disservice to the sport and it turns it into something it NEVER has been.

    Know your cycling history. Cycling = doping

    Again… name one…. one …. one legend that wasn’t doped up.


  26. Mark –

    I thoroughly object to being referred to as a “bitter betsy” and “mofo”.
    Perhaps you should review my post and reassess your sweeping judgement.
    To bring such behavior to a forum of this standard is totally unacceptable.

    Best regards,

    senor douchebago

  27. Kg- Miguel Indurain won the Tour 5 times in a row. Nobody spread hate about Big Mig like some the mongers here. Any drug scandals? Zen – you are spot on. Could not be articulated more precisely. Question: would cycling be better in the last ten years with or without Lance effect? More TV time equals, more people on bikes, equals more credibility and understanding of a great sport, and makes middle aged schlubs like me keep from gaining gut. Big Jonny, I don’t agree with your position, but you got me hooked on your site.

  28. scott boy the question was name a rider not linked to dope as dope was defined at the time. It wans’t name a rider people don’t spread hate about.
    apples and oranges OR asking and answering your own fucking question

    next up for big brain scott: The Grassy Knoll

  29. B-O-D
    The question was: Name one cycling legend who wasn’t doped?

    Name one……..

    My answer – Miguel Indurain. Or, how about Mr. Self Righteous himself -Greg LeMond?

    And definitely two shooters fuckhead – bowl of hate?

  30. Not the grassy knoll again… Jesus Christ, this is stone-cold obvious. The shooter was Marilyn Monroe and she was aiming at Jacqueline and missed. QED.

  31. …miguel indurain & greg lemond, huh ???…

    …ok, prove it…

    …what ???…no can do ???…hmmm…


    …& mikey…now that is funny…

  32. I am fucking done….check out this fucking whack job….

    Vandenbroucke fought with equal dirty weapons
    Frank Vandenbroucke said he only took the same stuff as the second placed rider…

    Frank Vandenbroucke said that he won Liège-Bastogne-Liège in 1999 “honestly”, because he and all the other top riders were all using the same doping preparations.

    In an interview with the Belgian men’s magazine Che, he said, he won the race “in an honest manner. Because I am 100 percent certain that I had taken nothing differently that day than the second, the third, the fourth and the fifth place finishers. Everyone rode with the same thing in himself, we fought with equal weapons.

    “Therefore it was an honest race, with an honest result. That day, or rather that year, I was the best of all. Everybody in the peloton knew it.”

    The 34-year-old said that new drugs were introduced into the peloton by “pioneers”. According to, which reported the interview, he said that the Italian team Gewiss “was the EPO pioneer, everyone knew that. Furlan, Berzin, Argentin … there is a reason why at a certain moment some men are riding 10 kilometre per hour faster than the others.”

    Vandenbroucke, who will ride this season for the Belgian-Australian Continental team Fuga-Down Under, regretted never having “had the chance to be a pioneer, to try out new doping products first.” He said that if he had had the chance, he “would have done it without doubt. …. Everyone would have seized that chance. Nobody should be hypocritical about that!”

    Some of his major victories did come while he was not doped, Vandenbroucke insisted. In 1994 he won the Queen Stage of the Tour Méditerranéen, ahead of riders “with a hematocrit of 60. Mine was 42!”

    Vandenbroucke ranked that mountaintop finish as greater than his later win in L-B-L. “Because I fought them with unequal resource. They had been prepared by their doping doctors Michele Ferrari and Luigi Cecchini. Whereas I … I rode, so to speak, on bread and water.”(SW)

  33. In the court of my own mind, this is all the evidence I need to doubt the validity of LA’s claims of racing clean. But I’m a skeptic at heart, I don’t believe in superhuman athletes anymore than I believe in Santa, The Easter Bunny, and Jesus. For all you Livestrong believers this video will only show your hero in action at his best.

  34. …lets check out mister kittle’s disingenuous statement in the ‘chi-trib’…way to exacerbate the situation, ronnie…

    …{{{Former Chicago White Sox slugger Ron Kittle says Jose Canseco should fear for his safety after exposing baseball’s steroid problem in his books and with his public statements, the Chicago Tribune reported Tuesday.
    “My first thought was: ‘I wonder who’s going to be the first one to shoot him,'” said Kittle, who was the American League Rookie of the Year in 1983 after hitting 35 home runs.
    …”I still think somebody who might have had their life ruined might take vengeance on him. If I were [Canseco], I would think about that.

    …wow, damn good job, kittle…that’s not just inflammatory, you even managed a “fuck you, touche’, jose !!!”

    …canseco has always shown great “douche-baggery”, but blow that whistle, son…major league baseball’s got a drug problem…clubs openly provided amphetamines to players until recently…“aw, gee, guys…ya hadda hard night of drinking ???…have a little pick-me-up, courtesy of the club”…well beyond that, recent choices in sophisticated pharmacopeia seem to leave little to the imagination…
    …we joked in the late ’60’s, “better living through chemistry”…w/ hindsight, sad then, way sadder now…

    …kittle goes on to say:-
    “There is a sign in just about every clubhouse: ‘What you see here, what you say here, let it stay here when you leave here,'”
    …right, great, especially when yer a grown man playing a kids game…this is not just a case of “gettin’ a little on the side” while you’re on the road & keeping it from the family…this involves drugs…chemically altered consciousnesses, genetically modified bodies…

    …will selig & the owners take a real stand or will “the game” prove to be more important ???…we’ll find out…

    …oh, ya, bikes n’ shit…sorry…

  35. on. I wonder if (or when, as Mr. Kittle predicts) the slugger comes up “sleepin’ wit the fishes”….the cops will come a knock-knock-knockin’ on Ronny boys door…just to ask a few simple questions. people sure can say the most fucked up things.

  36. …mike…it’s kind of amazing that major league baseball hasn’t commented on kittle’s loose mouth but then again maybe they also see it as an appropriate “touche’, jose”

  37. Giant,
    Lance was a nobody before he started winning the tour. To those of us who have been following professional racing since the 70s, sure, we knew who he was. But to the general public, and even his doctors, he was another cancer patient, not the phenom he later became. I’ll ask again since none of you haters seemed to be able to answer the question, what good would it serve his doctors and nurses to cover up ped use? Betsy thought she heard something that wasn’t said, and frankie just played the good wife.
    I said twice already that I don’t know if lance doped or not, but the andreau story has no credibility. That isn’t my opinion, it’s a matter of law. Unless you want to call the court procedings crooked as well. Oh, yeah, the conclusions of a bunch of bloggers with no access to court documents is more authoritative than the judge in the case.
    Wow, what a bunch of pathetic arrogant asswipes you trolls turned out to be.

  38. This isn’t so much a hater issue (as the lemmings like to call it) as it is a matter of obvious suspicion based on the circumstantial development around L.A.

    Indeed, it is an awesome idea to think that he crushed the professional world of cycling, who were collectively doped during his 7-straight years of triumph. Some of us simply rely on our intuitive understanding of cycling and the probability of that happening. Couple that with the fallout of the PED era he dominated in, and what have you got? We take an alternate view based on our intuition, not hate. Drunkcyclist is not, and never was, here for the ratings. We don’t care if you never visit again. We don’t care if nobody does. There is no sellout. We call it like we see it and there is nothing more appropriate than to think outside the L.A. box. As much as you want to proclaim that “we have no proof”, in the same breath, The L.A. issue has not proven itself to be credible (outside if its fan base) either.

    Just because a few of us as critical of the situation, you have to hate on us. Nice work. How hypocritical your Zen has become.

    We didn’t really turn into trolls. We just take an alternative view. Being a lockstep patron of anything is akin to being an Ostrich. You know this as much as I do.

    If you think “the Law” can’t be manipulated, again, you are a fool. O.J. Simpson. AIG. Goldman Sachs, BofA, NiNa loans… How long does the list need to be, in order for the possibility of corruption to be a valid concern. As it is, the L.A. lovers have nothing but contempt for the possibility – a highly probably one at that – that L.A. was in the game to win it, and wasn’t relying on bread, water and faith. Simple logic regardless of “proof”. You all want your miracle so much, it is sad.

    You know very little about the sport you have followed since the 70’s. Bicycling magazine is simply not a credible source.

    Frankie had nothing to gain, and all to lose with his ill-timed and ill-conceived ramble on EPO. Think about it.

    Black and white has no place in cycling as with anywhere. This is just the way it is.

  39. Good point Gnome. I will say that same about LEmond as you did Frankie. All to lose and nothing to gain except the long reach of Lance’s posse in arms and they aint sour grapes

    Bicycling is not a creible shit..they think Chris Charmichael is really Lance’s Coach… hey Zen who is the one with the real hastey generalizations man.. set youself up for an asswippn by the Gnome himself. hahahahaha

    Although I see your point I still Hate Frankie the snitch cunt he is.

    hate the game motherfuckers fix the game….and stop the people snitchen yo

  40. One real criticism I have of lance that points to his character and credibility in my book (which don’t mean shit) is his continued personal and or financial attacks on all his enemies and those who question him. As a person in this world who has seen cancer take 2 family members with no chance to recover and a person who supports the fight against the disease, I find it difficult and problematic when Lance publically and personally calls people out behind the cloak of a cancer crusader. I get he is pissed but it just don’t jive with the cause in my ever so small and miserable world. Someone mentioned logic. Let me see if I have this straight: you question me. therefore you do not support the fight against cancer.

    Fuck you Lance.

    I am glad you are back for the action on the road alone and in fact I support your cancer fight but enough of the self righteousness and the word play with and the promises of tests and all this distraction.

    For the record I hope you win the TDF but just shut the fuck up and save the beat downs for the alps.

    And Zen if I were a troll id tell you to suck a big fat dick. but I am not alas

  41. …on this site, we all talk about “the lance situation” from our “two or three degrees of separation” perspective but the overwhelming public perception seems to be “wow, the miracle man is back…again !!!”

    …& despite what we think, feel, know or understand about bicycle racing, the peds, the ego’s n’ attitudes involved, the public has been primed to be both jaded & to look the other way…for every honest do-gooder (& i’m not slighting anyone w/ that term) there are a handful of folks living vicariously through their sports heroes or their own kids & who just don’t care how results are achieved…

    …lance obviously has a large ego & is pretty savvy when it comes to bike racing & self promotion…maybe he doesn’t have the humility or the kind of intelligence to know how to back down graciously…it’s obvious he doesn’t want to disappoint his ‘believers’ but maybe that ‘one-track’ mind has a limited perspective & ability…

    …just a thought…

  42. maybe he only knows on level of reasoning and he learned it in the peloton. good point