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	<title>Comments on: Kimmage</title>
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	<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/</link>
	<description>Two Wheels. One Dark Lord.</description>
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		<title>By: bikesgonewild</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26248</link>
		<dc:creator>bikesgonewild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26248</guid>
		<description>...w/ that in mind, sir, then why is the vitriol directed at one particular cyclist rather than the the broad spectrum of cyclist&#039;s who were undoubtedly involved ???...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;w/ that in mind, sir, then why is the vitriol directed at one particular cyclist rather than the the broad spectrum of cyclist&#8217;s who were undoubtedly involved ???&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bikesgonewild</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26247</link>
		<dc:creator>bikesgonewild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26247</guid>
		<description>...w/ that in mind, sir, what i don&#039;t understand is why all the vitriol directed at one man whereas great numbers of cyclist&#039;s were &quot;obviously&quot; involved ???...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;w/ that in mind, sir, what i don&#8217;t understand is why all the vitriol directed at one man whereas great numbers of cyclist&#8217;s were &#8220;obviously&#8221; involved ???&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: big jonny</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26245</link>
		<dc:creator>big jonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26245</guid>
		<description>Zen,
Why frame your argument that anyone who claims doping is “just another disgruntled racer who couldn’t hang”?

How then do you handle accusations by legitimate reporters?  Demand to see a copy of their recent race results?  Or, is it that anyone who previously participated in bicycling racing cannot pass judgment unless they won?  And won what?  And won it when?

Kimmage raced as a pro.  He wrote a book about doping.   He is accused of a) spitting in the soup (telling it like it is) and b) being “just another disgruntled racer who couldn’t hang”.    Lemond has made accusations.  He is vilified in much the same manner.   But, in Lemond’s case, he won the Tour.  Three times.  And yet, they say he’s disgruntled, not because he didn’t win, but because he is jealous that someone else won more.

Where does it end?  You had to have won the event in the prior year?  This is ridiculous.

Regarding VO2 max:  I quick google search shows Armstrong’ reported max to be 85.    Lemond’s is reported to be above 90 (~92.5).  Big difference.  Huge difference.  And I seriously doubt LA’s 85 is among “some of the highest VO max readings ever recorded at the USOTC.”   

My feelings about Lance Armstrong’s drug use have nothing to do with me making excuses for being a fat, out of shape slob.  They have everything to do with what I know about drug use in cycling.  I’ve talked with a man who represented Greg Strock.  I’ve talked to a man who worked for Motorola.  I’ve talked with a man raced on Motorola.  There was drug use.  There is no confusion on the matter.   None.  There was drug use.  You may choose not to believe me, and I’m comfortable with that.  I understand your choice.  But realize it for what it is - a choice to ignore reality in favor of a fairy tale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zen,<br />
Why frame your argument that anyone who claims doping is “just another disgruntled racer who couldn’t hang”?</p>
<p>How then do you handle accusations by legitimate reporters?  Demand to see a copy of their recent race results?  Or, is it that anyone who previously participated in bicycling racing cannot pass judgment unless they won?  And won what?  And won it when?</p>
<p>Kimmage raced as a pro.  He wrote a book about doping.   He is accused of a) spitting in the soup (telling it like it is) and b) being “just another disgruntled racer who couldn’t hang”.    Lemond has made accusations.  He is vilified in much the same manner.   But, in Lemond’s case, he won the Tour.  Three times.  And yet, they say he’s disgruntled, not because he didn’t win, but because he is jealous that someone else won more.</p>
<p>Where does it end?  You had to have won the event in the prior year?  This is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Regarding VO2 max:  I quick google search shows Armstrong’ reported max to be 85.    Lemond’s is reported to be above 90 (~92.5).  Big difference.  Huge difference.  And I seriously doubt LA’s 85 is among “some of the highest VO max readings ever recorded at the USOTC.”   </p>
<p>My feelings about Lance Armstrong’s drug use have nothing to do with me making excuses for being a fat, out of shape slob.  They have everything to do with what I know about drug use in cycling.  I’ve talked with a man who represented Greg Strock.  I’ve talked to a man who worked for Motorola.  I’ve talked with a man raced on Motorola.  There was drug use.  There is no confusion on the matter.   None.  There was drug use.  You may choose not to believe me, and I’m comfortable with that.  I understand your choice.  But realize it for what it is &#8211; a choice to ignore reality in favor of a fairy tale.</p>
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		<title>By: dentext</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26241</link>
		<dc:creator>dentext</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26241</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been cool to have a TOC with so many names...of course some of those big names are returning after getting busted.
LA needs to transition to senior status / cycling elder....the best for all concerned. 
My second time to a big f&#039;ing stage race up close.

To stand with huge crowds in pouring rain as they cheer cyclists,..
that&#039;s so fucking great. Really.

The press mostly doesn&#039;t know how to write a bike race story..but they know how to do a dope story.


And who isn&#039;t happy when a stolen bike is returned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been cool to have a TOC with so many names&#8230;of course some of those big names are returning after getting busted.<br />
LA needs to transition to senior status / cycling elder&#8230;.the best for all concerned.<br />
My second time to a big f&#8217;ing stage race up close.</p>
<p>To stand with huge crowds in pouring rain as they cheer cyclists,..<br />
that&#8217;s so fucking great. Really.</p>
<p>The press mostly doesn&#8217;t know how to write a bike race story..but they know how to do a dope story.</p>
<p>And who isn&#8217;t happy when a stolen bike is returned?</p>
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		<title>By: zen</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26240</link>
		<dc:creator>zen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26240</guid>
		<description>bike punk hit the nail on the head with his first reply in this thread. Do some spring classics, the giro, the vuelta, get over the TdF thing.

bush43 - good handle, you&#039;re as much of an idiot as the real bush 43. Armstrong has some of the highest VO max readings ever recorded at the USOTC - do your research, stop taking your lead from our last whitehouse disgrace. The tests you claim were positive were using an experimental method that was never approved. Why was it never approved? too many false positives. Sure, gas chromatography is accurate as hell, it will detect what ever you tell it to, even molecules that aren&#039;t related to the article under test. 

Kimmage is just another disgruntled racer who couldn&#039;t hang. BGW&#039;s response about kimmage is right on the money. 

I know and race with alot of guys that feel the same way about armstrong as bush43, and these are typically the guys that always have some excuse for not racing well, always ready to blame someone else for them not being in the right place when the break goes away, always yelling at their teammates for &#039;failing&#039; to bring the break back. Never taking _any_ responsibility for their own pathetic lack of results.

I hope lance takes the ToC today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bike punk hit the nail on the head with his first reply in this thread. Do some spring classics, the giro, the vuelta, get over the TdF thing.</p>
<p>bush43 &#8211; good handle, you&#8217;re as much of an idiot as the real bush 43. Armstrong has some of the highest VO max readings ever recorded at the USOTC &#8211; do your research, stop taking your lead from our last whitehouse disgrace. The tests you claim were positive were using an experimental method that was never approved. Why was it never approved? too many false positives. Sure, gas chromatography is accurate as hell, it will detect what ever you tell it to, even molecules that aren&#8217;t related to the article under test. </p>
<p>Kimmage is just another disgruntled racer who couldn&#8217;t hang. BGW&#8217;s response about kimmage is right on the money. </p>
<p>I know and race with alot of guys that feel the same way about armstrong as bush43, and these are typically the guys that always have some excuse for not racing well, always ready to blame someone else for them not being in the right place when the break goes away, always yelling at their teammates for &#8216;failing&#8217; to bring the break back. Never taking _any_ responsibility for their own pathetic lack of results.</p>
<p>I hope lance takes the ToC today.</p>
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		<title>By: bikesgonewild</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26211</link>
		<dc:creator>bikesgonewild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26211</guid>
		<description>...ya, right bush43...it&#039;s ALL armstrong&#039;s fault...in fact, on top of instigating all the doping of his era, he prob&#039;ly arranged to have his tt rig stolen the other night just so he could get a little more publicity, huh ???...

...actually, a better theory for the stolen bike would be that chad gerlach&#039;s ol&#039; sacramento rummy pals stole it out of admiration for their bud gettin&#039; his shit together &amp; going back to bike racing...&lt;i&gt;&quot;here ya go, chad...we knowed ya was hurtin&#039; for a good bike n&#039; all, so we got ya a cool one...&#039;sides, that lance guy&#039;s got plenty of &#039;em, right ???&quot;&lt;/i&gt;...

...&amp; gee, mikey...better on whatever yer ridin&#039; than crammed into the dropouts of some beat up pretend mtb magna...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;ya, right bush43&#8230;it&#8217;s ALL armstrong&#8217;s fault&#8230;in fact, on top of instigating all the doping of his era, he prob&#8217;ly arranged to have his tt rig stolen the other night just so he could get a little more publicity, huh ???&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;actually, a better theory for the stolen bike would be that chad gerlach&#8217;s ol&#8217; sacramento rummy pals stole it out of admiration for their bud gettin&#8217; his shit together &amp; going back to bike racing&#8230;<i>&#8220;here ya go, chad&#8230;we knowed ya was hurtin&#8217; for a good bike n&#8217; all, so we got ya a cool one&#8230;&#8217;sides, that lance guy&#8217;s got plenty of &#8216;em, right ???&#8221;</i>&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;&amp; gee, mikey&#8230;better on whatever yer ridin&#8217; than crammed into the dropouts of some beat up pretend mtb magna&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mikey</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26210</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26210</guid>
		<description>I just eBayed this awesome set of black and yellow deep-dish Bontrager wheels, do you think I should buy yhtem?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/02-19b

Mikey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just eBayed this awesome set of black and yellow deep-dish Bontrager wheels, do you think I should buy yhtem?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/02-19b" rel="nofollow">http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2009/news/02-19b</a></p>
<p>Mikey</p>
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		<title>By: Gnome</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26209</link>
		<dc:creator>Gnome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26209</guid>
		<description>The sport clean, is salvation for amateurs. That&#039;s the only reason to get the dope out. Nevermind nailing L.A. for managing the political fallout of being ensconced in that era... and indulging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sport clean, is salvation for amateurs. That&#8217;s the only reason to get the dope out. Nevermind nailing L.A. for managing the political fallout of being ensconced in that era&#8230; and indulging.</p>
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		<title>By: Bush43</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26206</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush43</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26206</guid>
		<description>Lance Armstrong is a CANCER on cycling. Just as Greg Lemond says he doesn&#039;t have the VO2max to win a major tour. But with blood doping, either &quot;classic&quot; or EPO or EPO-facsimile he does.

Everybody on the &quot;inside&quot; knows what a doper Lance is and they all want what he got by cheating so they cheat too.

Lance Armstrong failed SIX urine samples for EPO. Sure they weren&#039;t legally permissible but that is a technicality. Those GC-MS machines are good down to parts per billion. 

No 155# man can put out 470 watts sustained for over 1/2 an hour at the end of a six hour stage two weeks into a major tour. That is simply outside of the human envelope. But with the right blood doping there you have it; One Big Fat Cancer Cell on Cycling; Lance &quot;Big Dick&quot; Armstrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance Armstrong is a CANCER on cycling. Just as Greg Lemond says he doesn&#8217;t have the VO2max to win a major tour. But with blood doping, either &#8220;classic&#8221; or EPO or EPO-facsimile he does.</p>
<p>Everybody on the &#8220;inside&#8221; knows what a doper Lance is and they all want what he got by cheating so they cheat too.</p>
<p>Lance Armstrong failed SIX urine samples for EPO. Sure they weren&#8217;t legally permissible but that is a technicality. Those GC-MS machines are good down to parts per billion. </p>
<p>No 155# man can put out 470 watts sustained for over 1/2 an hour at the end of a six hour stage two weeks into a major tour. That is simply outside of the human envelope. But with the right blood doping there you have it; One Big Fat Cancer Cell on Cycling; Lance &#8220;Big Dick&#8221; Armstrong.</p>
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		<title>By: big jonny</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26204</link>
		<dc:creator>big jonny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26204</guid>
		<description>I think Eddie got popped twice.  And I think he owned up to one of &#039;em.  The second he claims someone put something in his water bottle or some shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Eddie got popped twice.  And I think he owned up to one of &#8216;em.  The second he claims someone put something in his water bottle or some shit.</p>
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		<title>By: kg</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26203</link>
		<dc:creator>kg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26203</guid>
		<description>Eddie doped and he&#039;s a cycling god.



kg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eddie doped and he&#8217;s a cycling god.</p>
<p>kg</p>
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		<title>By: bikesgonewild</title>
		<link>http://drunkcyclist.com/2009/02/17/kimmage/#comment-26202</link>
		<dc:creator>bikesgonewild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://drunkcyclist.com/?p=8947#comment-26202</guid>
		<description>...i agree it stinks...

...&amp; as a fan of both the sport &amp; mr armstrong, it&#039;s w/ a sad laugh that i say that if he did (&amp; ya, in my heart i think that he, like the majority did) he sure as fuck did a better job of it than most...

...as gnomer basically sez, either way, w/ that mindset, the man&#039;s a stone cold killer...

...do i wanna see the sport &quot;clean&quot; ???...bet yer ass...do i honestly think it ever will be ???...well, at this point i&#039;m stumped...every time i think it&#039;s gonna get better, somebody throws in a new &#039;improved&#039; monkey wrench... 

...but when a man gets off his deathbed &amp; inspires you to get off yours, he&#039;s still an inspiration...

...&amp; if that leaves me as a man of weak moral fiber, well, just sayin&#039;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;i agree it stinks&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;&amp; as a fan of both the sport &amp; mr armstrong, it&#8217;s w/ a sad laugh that i say that if he did (&amp; ya, in my heart i think that he, like the majority did) he sure as fuck did a better job of it than most&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;as gnomer basically sez, either way, w/ that mindset, the man&#8217;s a stone cold killer&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;do i wanna see the sport &#8220;clean&#8221; ???&#8230;bet yer ass&#8230;do i honestly think it ever will be ???&#8230;well, at this point i&#8217;m stumped&#8230;every time i think it&#8217;s gonna get better, somebody throws in a new &#8216;improved&#8217; monkey wrench&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8230;but when a man gets off his deathbed &amp; inspires you to get off yours, he&#8217;s still an inspiration&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;&amp; if that leaves me as a man of weak moral fiber, well, just sayin&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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