Todd Palin and the AIP

It is important to note that while the Weatherman set off bombs when Barak Obama was eight years old, Todd Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party for years. He ended his association only recently. The AIP’s stated aim is for Alaska to secede from the Union. In case any of you are wondering – unlike that shit the Fox crowd screams about Obama – succession is treason.

§ 2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.


People should be yelling this from the fucking rooftops.

[I]f McCarthy-era guilt-by-association is once again a valid political consideration, Palin, it would seem, has more to lose than Obama. Palin, it could be argued, following her own logic, thinks so little of America’s perfection that she continues to “pal around” with a man–her husband, actually–who only recently terminated his seven-year membership in the Alaskan Independence Party. Putting plunder above patriotism, the members of this treasonous cabal aim to break our country into pieces and walk away with Alaska’s rich federal oil fields and one-fifth of America’s land base–an area three-fourths the size of the Civil War Confederacy.

. . . AIP’s creation was inspired by the rabidly violent anti-Americanism of its founding father Joe Vogler, “I’m an Alaskan, not an American,” reads a favorite Vogler quote on AIP’s current website, “I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.” According to Vogler AIP’s central purpose was to drive Alaska’s secession from the United States. Alaska, says current Chairwoman Lynette Clark, “should be an independent nation.”


Joe Vogler might have acutally been a terrorist, just the type of person the right is quick to accuse Obama of assocaiting with: “Vogler was murdered in 1993 during an illegal sale of plastic explosives that went bad” See id. Who the hell needs to buy illegal plastic explosives?

Do I know what he was going to do with them? No. Of course not. But we’re far beyond above board political conversations in this country. If an association with Ayers is bad, then being a member of the AIP is bad as well.

I think there is a lot more to come on this…

Update: After a good night’s sleep following a week of awful midterms, I realize this post lacks clarity. In my haste putting this post together, I oversimplified the issues related to Todd Palin’s former political party, the AIP, and their goal of splitting Alaska off from the rest of the United States. Seditious conspiracy is not synonymous with treason. They are, in fact, two different crimes with different burdens of proof, different punishments, etc.
And see: United States v. Rodriguez.
The point I had wanted to make was the attacks on Obama for associated himself with a former member of the group Weather Underground are a bit of a stretch as the “association” comes some twenty years following the illegal activities of Ayers. Also, and perhaps more importantly, Todd Palin was until recently a member of a political party whose stated goal is one of sedition. Sarah Palin both attended and gave speeches at AIP conventions. If we’re going to point fingers about who doesn’t love America…

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About big jonny

The man, the legend. The guy who started it all back in the Year of Our Lord Beer, 2000, with a couple of pages worth of idiotic ranting hardcoded on some random porn site that would host anything you uploaded, a book called HTML for Dummies (which was completely appropriate), a bad attitude (which hasn’t much changed), and a Dell desktop running Win95 with 64 mgs of ram and a six gig hard drive. Those were the days. Then he went to law school. Go figure. Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

81 thoughts on “Todd Palin and the AIP

  1. interesting, i was under the impression that Palin was fully vetted by the McCain camp…

    Obama & Biden may not be the cleanest politicians but you have to stretch a little to reach the rotten fruit on their fruit trees.

    the fruit trees of McCain & Palin on the other hand only need a little shaking and the basket is full.

    I can only hope that their tree gets shook in the next 2 weeks. if only the majority of the GOP constituency didn’t love the taste of rotten fruit….

  2. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think succession, which is simply the coming of one person or thing after another in order, is perfectly acceptable. Whereas,secession is provided for by Article IV of the United States Constitution which provides for the creation of new states of the Union, requiring that any such creation be approved by the legislature of the affected state(s), as well as the United States Congress.

    Political views notwithstanding, if it’s Constitutional, it isn’t treasonous.

  3. no t&a has been lost on DC…. look around. it’s here. and plenty of it.

    but some of us have priorities. something our county has lost and flat-out misscatagorized. shit’s been ignored long enough and the mind meld is on the verge of being irreversable. somebody’s got to care.

    but alas, we all need a break. off to see what’s being served up for the weekly video…

  4. WU bombed when Obama was 8, but he chose to break bread with them when he was a man.

    Here’s a questions… of the 100’s of millions that were spent on that board that OB and Ayers served on, what was accomplished? Anyone know?

    I know they were trying to improve the schools in Chicago, did they get anything for all those millions? I mean, BO put his kids in private school so assume the education wasn’t improved much if any.

  5. Sarah breaks bread with the “First Dude” every night. It makes me laugh, and get scared to see how out of it these right wingers are. I think you could turn up pictures of the “First Dude” wiping his ass with the American Flag and they still would vote for them. It’s as simple as this Barack Obama= Black. They won’t vote for him because of it, and this is all the cover up for it…

  6. KG’s on point. Clarity is this:

    “all those millions” is a generalization that will never be clarified, nor should it matter at this point.

    Ayers association with the Chicago Annenberg Foundation – where Obama Hussein served on the board – was in fact, as a board member of the Cross City Campaign for Urban School Reform. They wrote, and won, a petition for funding via the Chicago Annenberg Foundation. Simple as that, and completely buried by mass media.


    Need more: on Obama’s relationship with Ayers

    The following presents the exposure McSame had, with the very same organization that funded Ayers “radical” urban improvement program:

    McCain, who has criticized Obama for his ties to William Ayers, one of the founders of Chicago’s Annenberg project, is now associating with the very foundation that funded the “radical” work.

    Source: Campaign K-12

  7. The man who prosecuted Ayers opinion on the matter
    As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

    Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

    Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

    I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

    William C. Ibershof

    Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008

  8. Good quote from the lead prosecutor.

    Not really sure about Ayers, but far as I know he is living pretty clean these days. Things change with time.

    As a country, we once supported Hussein/Iraq, Afghanistan’s “freedom fighters”, Noriega…so I guess that could make the U.S. a sponsor of evil?

    The Palins are shitwits. The whole thing would be humorous if I wasn’t so worried.

    So where the hell is Cheney these days?

  9. Worried is the word. Now the news breaks that abuse of power has occured. Two posts down.. Those idiots won’t care. They will justify it to themselves. After all it is the mindless sheep that vote for these types of people. They fear decision making and want to sit in their homes watching tv melting their brains.

  10. KG,
    The US government funded Bin Laden through the Mujaheddin when he was fighting the Russians. What does this make the government complicit in? (Wait, I like this logic…) Are you going to push this to the same extent that you push the Obama-Ayers non-connection? Because it’s real, unlike the Obama-Ayers thing. Be consistent.

  11. Abuse of Public Trust

    can you call a chick an Ass Clown? Can we call her a Tool? What do you call this woman other than the C word is what I want to know

  12. And the friday night news dump shows us that the investigation into her abuse of power was justified. She DID abuse the public trust by going on a witch-hunt against her ex-brother-in-law.

    Not that it will get any coverage on FOX, etc. mind you.

    And one last thing about Ayers. He TURNED HIMSELF IN. The prosecution couldn’t convict because of some assclowns fucking shit up. How about we dig up George Washington and put his bones on display as ‘The First American Terrorist.” seeing as that is what he was, back in the day. Of course we call him ‘patriot’ now. Maybe we should get Rumsfeld out here to talk about Guilt By Association. We saw him shaking hands with Saddam during the time we were selling him weapons that he TURNED AROUND AND USED ON HIS OWN PEOPLE.

    Its a shell game people. A con. They want the KG’s of the world to not think for themselves and follow FOX news blindly instead of thinking…”He was an asshole and tried to fuck shit up. But he’s not doing that shit now; hell, he’s actually an upstanding citizen. How about that…? I guess people CAN change.”

    But they never will because Fox is nothing more than Inside Edition with a bigger budget. It’s what The Superficial wishes it was, but not as funny.


  13. @butthead: What do you call this woman other than the C word is what I want to know.

    Cunt is concise and descriptive. I think that’s the word Hemingway would have used. Here’s hoping that the McCain candidacy is the last we’ll hear of the republican party in this country for a very long time.

  14. tonight at bar close, like 147 am. 7 Latino east siders had to be “held back” by their girl friends because they wanted to beat the shit out of some dumb white kid who was calling Obama a terrorist. I wish everyone could have seen this. I though I was going to see a physical fight over political bull shit. I gotta say, I’ve seen some stupid fights in my time as a pedicab driver, but this was inspiring. It was as if they were all getting called pussies and this white boy was gonna get fucked up for it. Beautiful. I hope those kids vote.

  15. KG – “WU bombed when Obama was 8, but he chose to break bread with them when he was a man. ”

    This is exactly the BS the Republicans are pushing. Did Obama “break bread” with the WU? Or did he associate with a former member 30+ years later?

    This kind of stuff has fueld these kind of feelings in the ignorant people. This is not good at all, especially in tense times like these:

  16. You know who was a GREAT American terrorist (and one more suitable termed as such as opposed to G. Washington)….Samuel Adams. And now he brews a mighty fine beer. I think we should all drink some.

    Obama/Ayers is a non-factor. If this is the tripping point for some people as to why they would not vote for Obama, I feel bad for them. By the same token…I could give a flying fuck what Mr. Palin has done…he’s not running for VP…and he rides a snowmobile.

  17. There are people who will not vote for Obama because he’s black. That’s absolutely true. Those people will look past the Sarah Palin catastrophe and justify it as a “political witch hunt”, even though a bipartisan committee did the investigating. BUT—Barack Obama did spend 20 years in Jeremiah Wright’s wacky church. He is associated with ACORN, who are embroiled in their own scandal right now. I believe ACORN was paying people to register to vote. Absolutely. But there are plenty of people who will look past any scandal or shady behavior/associations on Obama’s side BECAUSE he’s black. That’s racist, as well.

    Both sides suck. Neither side is willing to come out and admit the truth, which is they are voting for or against a candidate based on race. Obama’s not qualified to be president. No way. He doesn’t come from the business world, has never been mayor or governor. He’s never really done anything but go to college, be a “community organizer”, serve in the state house(where he didn’t do anything of substance), and get elected to the Senate(where he immediately began running for president). He’s a pretty package. He’s all sizzle and no steak. No record. Never had a job, even.

    Biden is a non-issue for me. Do I think he could be a good president? Probably. Maybe not. If Obama’s elected, there’s a good chance Biden will eventually be president. There has been so much hatred and fear whipped up around Obama that I’m certain some nutter will assassinate him. It’s certainly possible. The right wingers have painted him as some weird cross between Louis Farrakhan and Osama bin Laden.

    McCain is a child or privilege who got everything he’s ever had because of who he is. He got into a good private school because he father was an Admiral. He avoided any punishment for his actions for the same reason. He received a Naval Academy appointment because of his father—and should have been drummed out many times but used family connections to stay in, graduating at the bottom of his class. He crashed 4 planes before he was shot down, which would have caused any other pilot to be grounded. He left his first wife for a hotter, younger, richer woman—after his first wife waited for him during his captivity, and after she had a disfiguring car crash. His second wife plugged him into a river of wealth, but he still got involved in the Keating 5 scandal.

    Palin? What a fucking joke. McCain picked her to placate the Bible thumping whacko fundies. She’s not qualified to be vice president, and certainly not president. Now it looks like the woman who wants to shatter the glass ceiling ceded lots of power to her uneducated husband while governor. Nice. Abuse of power. Bullying state employees. Destroying the reputation of a state trooper to further personal grievances. She’s like Dick Cheney in a dress.

    THEY ALL SUCK. If you vote for the lesser of two evils you’re still voting for evil. Have some balls and vote third party. Voting against someone is no reason to go to the polls. Fuck. I don’t care which party you vote for. Libertarian, Constitution, Green, Socialist, what the fuck? Just vote differently. Don’t vote for the flip sides of the same goddamned coin. Between the two main candidates, they’ve raised almost a billion dollars! You really think they aren’t beholden to the same corporate interests? You think they give a shit about you? They both backed the trillion dollar bailout—-socialized risk but privatized gain.

  18. @Mike: THEY ALL SUCK. If you vote for the lesser of two evils you’re still voting for evil. Have some balls and vote third party.

    I’m with you on the general level of suckitude, but anyone who doesn’t believe that there is a very real, very important choice to be made on November 4 is just kidding himself. It bugs the living shit out of me that every 4 years we find ourselves asking “are these actually the best leaders our system can produce?” but the sad fact of the matter is that either John McCain or Barack Obama is going to be the next President of the United States. The effete vanity voters (and vanity candidate) who couldn’t grasp the same truth about Bush and Gore had a lot to do with how the last 8 years have gone. Don’t you think that more than a few of the fucktards who voted for Nader would like a do-over on that one?

  19. all that nyt article says the prosecution was dismissed because of technical reasons, not that ayers wasnt guilty. a difference to be noted. murders, child molesters, drug dealers get the same treatment is the prosecution doesnt do its job correctly.
    and i dont think the question is how old O was when that stuff happened.
    its more about why does O say ayers was ‘someone who lives in his neighborhood’, and skip the parts where O and ayers were close associates in other legal endeavors ?
    why not just be up front on that, give the questioners a pre-emptive answer ?

  20. america,

    You wrote:

    all that nyt article says the prosecution was dismissed because of technical reasons, not that ayers wasnt guilty.

    No. That is not all the article says or what Ibershof wrote.

    The second paragraph, in its entirety, reads as follows:

    As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

    The third paragraph, in its entirety, reads as follows:

    Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

    In case you claim to be writing about the article; I cannot find reference to the statement you made in that either.

  21. You should re-think going to law school if this is the best legal analysis you can muster about belonging to a political party. It doesn’t rise to the level of being weak. It is simply wrong. If you embark on a career in law, you’ll get your ass kicked. The sad thing is that you won’t recognize the reason for your failure to be a weak mind. Instead, you’ll chalk it up to a prejudiced judge.

    Here is something to consider. Your opinion is grounded on faulty premises and weak reasoning.

    And to assert that reasoned opposition to Obama becoming president is mere prejudice reveals your own support being mere bias because he is 1/16th black. Except that reason is false because Obama is African Muslim and not black (unless by your math 1/16th negro overwhelms 15/16ths other races in the mix).

    But all that is beside the point. The reasons to oppose Obama are his mind and socio-economic beliefs and practices. Obama is a marxist. If that’s what you want leading the country, you are pathetically weak-minded and not deserving of the Constitution that protects your right to be oh so wrong.

  22. Hey, didn’t G-Dub introduce the most socialistic infringement on the American public by way of 700 billion dollars? Isn’t he a republican?

    Just say’n…

  23. Hey Smarter, this pill popping porn site is not legal analysis. We are not applying fact patterns to statutes and prior court judgments. We are talking about what makes a fair criticism when sifting through the dirt of one’s political life.

    Now to your thoughtful comments: I honestly have no idea what you are talking about when comparing Obama’s Blackness to the percentage of his lineage that is African-Muslim. All that matters to the average racist in Ohio is that he is not white. He’s got dark skin and people in the flyover states have been blaming the entirety of their economic hard times on any and all minority groups for years. They cannot bring themselves to trust a man with dark skin and a funny name. A white guy named “Smith” is fine. A black guy names “Hussein” is not.

    Obama is a Marxist? Are you fucking serious? A Marxist? Explain the money he’s made, his wife’s career or the house they own. The man is a fucking capitalist.

    You’re so full of shit I don’t even know why I’m taking the time to write this. I know full well there is nothing I can that will penetrate your thick skull. Yeah, now I’m getting personal. But you got my blood up when you attacked my choice of study. Fuck you. Don’t question my abilities you fucking piece of shit. I’ll put trade marks around your fucking eyes.

  24. Gnome: yes, the prez did put forth the bail-out, and there has to be better ways to fix things, BUT all the dems voted for it as well.
    WHY ?!?!? does that mean they vote with the republicans now ?!?!?
    most of the congress is complicit in this mess.

    bigjonny – regardless, ayers was dismissed due to ineptness of the prosection, not because he wasnt guilty. he has admitted as much.
    and now he cant be prosecuted a 2nd time, right (double jeopardy thing).
    Stalin was a marxist, and he lived good. off the millions of comrades back.
    I doubt O is a cruel person, but im just sayin, money has nothing to do with your political leanings. esp here in america.
    hopefully you are not pursuing criminal law/defense.
    trying to get criminals off due to technical reasons, and not because they are not guilty.
    and even tho it wasnt directed toward me:
    the trade marks remark, too scary.
    you should have typed it in CAPS and really shook things up.
    good one cochran.

  25. eljefe :
    Annenberg Public Policy Center ?

    right, good resource. not at all a liberal leaning institution.
    like asking the wolves if chickens like to be eaten.

  26. America – I’ll be the first to admit tough posturing behind the comfort of a keyboard is pretty damn lame. I let the name calling get to me for a minute there. I’d delete my post but fuck it. If it’s not listed in the comments, then my later explanations will not make sense.

    Smarter Thanyou – if you read this far, I’m not really going to put trade marks around your eyes. That was just the coffee talking. But don’t tell me I’ll fail as an attorney. That is just plain mean. Plus, now that I’ve taken the time to notice the email you left has “girl” in it, I realize I’ve just threatened physical violence against a woman. I’m a class act. Sorry ’bout that. I lost it like my name was John McCain.

    America – As for defense work, the burden is on the state to prove its case to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. If that fails to happen, in the system we have in the United States of America, the defendant is found not guilty. As to what a “technicality” is, I am unsure what you mean. Lack of a search warrant? Beating up a suspect? You have to draw a line somewhere, don’t you?

    I have issue with labeling Obama a Marxist. I just cannot see how it fits. And I’m being serious. I actually took the time to read the wiki article I linked above to refresh my memory of just what Karl Marx put forth. I don’t see much of Barak Obama in that. Maybe later I’ll dig out the copy of the Communist Manifesto I’ve got buried somewhere on the bookshelf downstairs and read through that too.

    Be not mistaken, I am no communist. Libertarian would be a closer tag. Left leaning on social issues definitely. But I digress… The problem with Ayers, at least to me, is not whether he was guilty or innocent, but that questioning the “relationship” between him and Barak Obama is foolish, meaningless and a distraction. It is a red herring. It is a non-issue. It does not matter is Obama and this guy “broke bread” or not.

  27. America, I expect the dems to vote towards the liberal end of things a majority of the time, especially when the people cry foul… and cry foul they did. So it makes sense that they did. Seems like standard operating procedure.

    Complicit is too strong a word. It suggests they actually understood what they were doing and I just can’t give (especially Pulosi and Barney)them that kind of credit. They are a confederacy of dunces at best.

    Lastly, and not that this will put opinion at bay (nor should it), but Acorn and Ayers are as irrelevant as Keating or the AIP. This is all just filler while both candidates configure new ways to appeal to their constituency, and McSame is in a harder pinch than the black guy.

    We are so divergent from the meat that needs to be discussed, it is frustrating and painful to experience as a citizen.

    No intent here to offend. Just say’n.

  28. america stated:

    “…you are pathetically weak-minded and not deserving of the Constitution that protects your right to be oh so wrong.”

    so the weak minded don’t deserve constitutional protection?
    Who defines weak minded?

    You know, it seems to me that the people who like to use words like Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Anarchist, Nihilst etc. don’t fully understand what they even mean.

    back up the statements with some clarification if you are going to use them.

    example: “I think Joe is an extremist because he set his balls on fire to prove a point.”

  29. Pirata,
    I think you mean to quote my new best friend Smarther Thanyou. It was her that said “. . . you are pathetically weak-minded and not deserving of the Constitution that protects your right to be oh so wrong.”

  30. America,
    It’s too bad, but truth has a liberal bias. is widely regarded as non-partisan. But then, I’ll bet you think FauxNews is a reliable source. Explain to me exactly what is incorrect about it, other than you don’t like it.

    Do you believe that racist crap? Fuck you if you do. First off, being Muslim is not a crime. Second, Obama’s not Muslim. It’s the Right’s secret code word for black, or are you more comfortable with nigger. I’ll bet you are a real upstanding “Christian” you hypocritical shit. You are part of the American Taliban. There’s no difference between a Christian fundamentalist who wants to turn the US into a theocracy, and the Muslim fundamentalists who took over the middle east.

  31. Hey big jonny,
    Ease up on the coffee man.
    There is really no need to be tossing out red herrings of your own on some white trash double-wide Alaskan good ‘ol boy.
    Yeah, he’s a complete ignorant jackass who has recently been shown to use his proximity to power unethically, but there is no need to go bathe in that pile of shit.
    All that will happen is you just get covered with their shit, that’s it.

    It is much easier to show how off track the Rep. ticket is if the issues stay on the front page.
    It’s pretty fucking simple.
    8 years ago, the US had a surplus and life was pretty fucking good.
    4 years ago, the US was sort of fucked up but was still able to recover with just a little work here ‘n there.
    Now, the fucking country has been driven into the ground; and if we are all lucky, in 20 years it will be as good as it was 8 years ago.
    Who had control of the presidency during that time? The Rep. party.
    Who had control of the congress during the majority of that time? The Rep. party.
    This is a pretty fucking simple thing to figure out.

    Just to be clear,
    Stalin was not a Marxist.
    Mao was not a Marxist.
    & Obama is really not a Marxist.
    A classic Democratic FDR style ‘New Deal’ visionary, but no where near a Marxist.

    Oh and lastly big jonny, I really hope when you go into practice, some of your time can be focused on traffic accidents regarding bicycles ’cause this shit ain’t getting any better and your personal experience in this matter would be very beneficial.

  32. Ryan—PLEASE don’t parrot that “US had a surplus” bullshit. We have been in debt for decades. A projected budget surplus doesn’t do anything for that. Clinton’s surplus was a smoke and mirrors act. The national debt grew under him too. No candidate wants to talk about paying down the deficit. Not Obama with his billions in new spending. Not McCain with his 100 more years of Iraq war. Nobody wants to hear what it’s going to take to achieve some financial security—-which is to drastically cut spending AND raise taxes. Surplus, HA. You must be kidding. The national debt went from 4.5 trillion dollars to 5.5 trillion dollars under Clinton. He wasn’t a financial whiz. People confuse a budget surplus with the national debt.

    Bush has spent money like a drunken sailor on shore leave, no doubt. But coming into office with a 5.5 trillion dollar national debt didn’t help matters. Interest on that much debt is HUGE.

  33. It’s more of a question of rate of growth regarding national debt since WWII.

    Good graphs:

    And, yes, you are correct that the debt had grown markedly every year since Carter was President. The relationship between revenue and spending under different administrations is of note. Clinton stands out in that assessment.

    I’ve got to tell you, no matter who is in the Whitehouse, I don’t see how we can aviod raisin taxes.

  34. now ryan, you know the president doesnt make law. its the congress,
    both senate and house. yes, the country is in a mess now, but it was done by all involved parties, donkeys and elephants. the donkeys had majority for at least the last two years, and that didnt help now did it ? now quit playing with your ‘puter and read your american government books until its time for dinner.


  35. el jefe,
    I checked, you are correct. Post 36 above was submitted via the same IP address as whomever has been posting under the name “america” and not the addy associated with your prior posts.

  36. We can require registration with the site in order to post comments, if this sort of thing becomes and issue.

    just say’n.

  37. shit jonny, don’t let the ip addresses out of the bag, Floyd might get pissed and track my ass down! Last thing I need is a high testosterone chipontheshoulder Mennonite beatdown.

    yep, meant smarterthanyou, not america in post 33. sorry america.

  38. Big Jonny, or BJ for short.

    Can your mind be so small that you cannot comprehend that opposition to Obama can be based on something other than his race?

    Obama was an acolyte of Saul Alinsky aka the Marxist Machiavelli of Chicago. Oh yea, Hillary was also offered a job from Mr. Alinsky, to.

    Let’s invoke a metaphor, shall we? What would you think of Palin if she had interned with David Duke? Would you think her a racist per se? Would you think that she shared Duke’s beliefs?

    Don’tcha think maybe Herr Obama shares Alinsky’s beliefs? If so, would you think there might be a pattern association with such thinkers?

    Let’s look at the trail, shall we? The following is a cut and paste:
    Obama’s Marxist Axis Of Friends
    By INVESTOR’S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, May 05, 2008 4:20 PM PT
    Election ’08: Barack Obama wishes questions about his associations with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers and other radicals would end. But maybe the reason they won’t is that there’s a pattern: Marxism. It’s not hiding.

    When one looks at Obama, it’s shocking how radical and anti-American his closest associates are. Taken separately, the black liberation theology of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, or fundraiser William Ayers’ unrepentant past as a 1960s terrorist or Obama’s openly pro-Che Guevara volunteers in Houston might be dismissed.
    But taken together, and given Obama’s closeness to his friends, it’s fair to ask whether Obama doesn’t share their extreme-left views. Yet whenever he’s asked, he gets mad and avoids the issue.
    Maybe that’s not surprising, given that Obama himself began his career as a Chicago community organizer and worked on projects there influenced by Saul Alinsky. The Marxist Machiavellian of the Chicago scene advised budding revolutionaries in his 1971 book “Rules For Radicals” to conceal their radical affiliations to attain greater power. That works well for Marxists.
    But Obama’s friends seem to be giving him away. If this sounds extreme, take a look at some of the activities of Obama’s associates:
    Wright is an adherent of black liberation theology, an explicitly Marxist interpretation of the Bible whose aim is to stir up class and race hatred to advance communism. Created by a rifle-toting Peruvian priest in the 1960s, it’s now discredited in religious circles.
    “Liberation theology isolates a few verses, takes them out of context, and then exaggerates their meaning,” said the Rev. Bob Schenk of the National Clergy Council, on “Hannity’s America” last weekend.
    But Wright clings to it. And recently, he loudly praised the Marxist Sandinista dictatorship of Nicaragua.
    Not by coincidence, Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega, Nicaragua’s president, endorses Obama. “This is not to say that there is already a revolution under way in the U.S. . . . But yes, (Obama and friends) are laying the foundations for a revolutionary change,” said Ortega.
    If that’s not enough, Wright’s also made pilgrimage to Cuban dictator Fidel Castro in Havana in 1984, alongside the Rev. Jesse Jackson. Cuban-American writer Humberto Fontova noted Jackson and his entourage cheered “Viva Fidel” and “Viva Che Guevara” on the $300,000 trip paid for by the Cuban Council of Churches.
    Then there’s Obama’s friend ex-Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers, another Marxist. Not only did Ayers set off terrorist bombs against “the establishment” with no regrets during the 1960s, he told the New York Times “we didn’t do enough.”
    Now it’s come to light that he posed for a photo in Chicago magazine in 2001, stomping on a U.S. flag in an article flogging his terrorist memoir, “Fugitive Days.” At the time Ayers was touting his anti-Americanism, Obama served with him on the Woods Fund board and Ayers made a $200 donation to Obama’s state Senate campaign.
    Ayers has since lectured the Marxist dictator of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, on using public education as an instrument for advancing “revolution.” Meanwhile his stepson, Chesa Boudin, has gone to Caracas as an “adviser” to the anti-American Chavez.
    Oh, by coincidence, Chavez and Castro are two of the dictators Obama said he’d like to give face time as president of the U.S.
    It gets worse when one looks at Obama’s political organization.
    Obama’s own Web site has held at least 15 favorable mentions of Che Guevara, according to a count by blogger Henry Gomez.
    When an Obama precinct captain in Houston flew a Cuban flag bearing Guevara’s likeness, Obama said only it “disappointed” him and “does not reflect (his) views.” He never publicly ordered the flag down, nor rejected Guevara’s blood-soaked communism.
    Another Obama supporter, acting in Obama’s name, secretly contacted Colombia’s Marxist FARC terror chief Raul Reyes to tell him that Obama would cut off U.S. military aid to Colombia to hinder its war against FARC, as well as deny Colombia free trade, a strategy FARC considers key to overturning Colombia’s democracy.
    If Obama repudiated that secret messenger, we didn’t hear it.
    Some pundits dismiss Obama’s ties with radicals as an opportunistic association with Chicago political machines to advance his career. But the depth and breadth of the contacts seem deeper.
    Obama himself has promised to meet with the hemisphere’s Marxist dictators who have systematically dismantled or are in the process of dismantling democracy all across our hemisphere.
    This stinks, frankly. Why does someone who says he represents “change” have so many Jurassic Marxists in his camp calling the shots? He needs to repudiate this crew now.

  39. Wow. STY, you are one tinfoil hat wearing freak. Your post is nothing but lies and innuendo. You actually believe that tripe? You scare me. Wow.

  40. Smarter Thanyou,

    You asked:

    Can your mind be so small that you cannot comprehend that opposition to Obama can be based on something other than his race?

    No. My mind is that small. No, wait, it’s bigger than a breadbox. But still on the small side. Look, of course, I realize that opposition to Obama can be based on something other than his race. People may vote for or against him for any reason they choose. Write in Frank Zappa , whatever. Herr Obama? Now he’s a Nazi? That is one tanned mother fucking German.

    The tone of last week (on this site and others) was about the racial undertones coming to the fore, the ugliness McCain has unleashed through his surrogates, and what his name will be associated with. That is what we’ve been discussing. I’m not sure what you’re trying to have a conversation about. What is it you think Barak Obama would be able to do as President that you are so afraid of? And, I mean what exactly do you fear he will do as President? I’m not asking who he was paling around with in Chicago. I don’t care about that right now – tell me what part of his current campaign platform you so strongly disagree with. Or, if you think his entire platform is a lie and he’s just trying to smoke and mirror his way in to the Whitehouse, tell me that. Don’t cut and paste some article. Write it yourself. I’m actually interested in your response. Are you thinking he’ll do away with priviate ownership of property? Raise taxes through the roof? Socialize healthcare? Shut down Wall Street? What?

  41. BJ,

    The big cut and paste was rude. It’s not the only article on the issue. That was only to pique your interest. Nevertheless, mildly sorry about pasting it. Especially since from your point of view, Obama’s marxist associations are probably a good thing.

    Yeah right, IBD has a reputation for inuendo journalism. DailyKos is more reliable, right?

    I commented because you implied that the only reason to not support Obama was racism. Is race the only reason you support him?

    I didn’t imply that Obama is a Nazi by using the word Herr. You inferred too much. I don’t think Obama a Nazi. Marxist, yes, Nazi, no.

    Yes, I think that Obama has run to the middle for purposes of the election, and that he’ll revert left when he’s in. That he says he won’t raise taxes on 95% of us is a lie. And even if he keeps that promise, who can feel good about Obama sticking it to the other 5%?

    Do you remember the exchange in a Man for All Seasons between Thomas More and his daughter’s fiance? The fiance said, I’d cut down every law in England if by doing so I could put the devil away. And More responded, and where would you stand in the winds that would blow then? I’d give the devil his due under law if only to protect myself.

    If Obama would stick it to the 5%, why would he refrain from sticking it to you if necessary?

    I’m no hypocrite. McCain has run to the middle for the election also. He’ll head left again as soon as the voting booths close. For conservatives, it’s a Hobson’s choice. For the left, how can you go wrong?

    I am “afraid” of an Obama presidency for only two reasons, dislike him for many more.

    First, Obama is unequivocally, indisputably unqualified to command a military. He doesn’t know what it is for or for what use it should be put. Given Russia’s aggressiveness, given the aggressiveness in the Middle East, an experienced military man is preferable. Why?

    Remember what happened under Bill Clinton? Bill went to a golf tournament. It so happened that the military found out where bin Laden was and had a small window of opportunity to get him. Bill wouldn’t take the call to give the “go” on the operation. Imagine, no bin Laden, no 9/11, no Iraq invasion and occupation, no U.S. people lost. Would some other terrorist have picked up the gauntlet and carried out 9/11? No one can say. One thing we can say is that it shouldn’t have been bin Laden behind the atrocity against NYC.

    So what would Obama do in a military crisis? Invite irrational, illogical, aggressive dictators to sit down and talk without preconditions.

    You’ve been assaulted on the road. Haven’t you learned yet that with some people talking reason won’t end an altercation?

    Yes, an Obama commander in chief scares me.

    Second, the judiciary. Doesn’t matter where a person comes down on the conservative – liberal issue. I believe Obama’s tendency would be to appoint judges without reservation against defeating the will of the people expressed in legislation. The Ninth Circuit is the prime example. I don’t want to be dis-enfranchised, do you? Even if a majority joined and passed disagreeable legislation, my remedy is to persuade a repeal or amendment, not chase down a judge who’ll thwart the legislation by fiat.

    Other issues that are disagreeable include the likelihood of socialized medicine under Obama and a democratically-controlled Congress. I’ve lived under socialized medicine, and prefer what we have now, as broken as it is.

    We’re moving toward socialism either way. Obama just puts us there faster than McCain.

    So you see, young BJ, resistance to Obama is not a matter of black or white skin, but instead in the marketplace of ideas where Obama is left wanting.

    Law school will be good for you probably for only one reason. To score well on the exams you have to spot the issues and argue both sides. You’ll find yourself far more open minded in three years than you are now. Why? Law is nothing more than compromise rules based on competing priorities, and more often that not, good is harmed in some way in each rule.

    The sooner you grow up and realize that, the better you’ll do in law school, the better your grades, the better your clerkship, the better your job afterward, the better your income, the better your ability to effect change for the better.

    Open your eyes and your mind and think a little deeper than holding an Al Franken, Jack Handy opinion.


  42. el jefe,

    You dumbfuck. Obama’s daddy was an African muslim. What would you call Obama now, a cocker spaniel? If a jew becomes a Christian, does the jew lose the genetic heritage at baptism?

    Nothing I wrote is founded on Obama’s religious belief or genetic heritage. It’s the ideas in his head I oppose, not his skin or heritage.

    It’s unfortunate for you that you can’t see past his skin and apply reason and logic.

  43. STY,
    Obviously you don’t understand genetics and the difference between a race and a religion. Jews are both, Muslim is a religion, just like Christianity. You you can take a DNA test to see if you are of Jewish decent. You can’t do that with any other religious group (yet, they’re working on it…) I’d call Obama a human. His father’s religion and skin color are irrelevant to his views. To imply that his heritage makes him a poor choice for president is racist.

    That article tried to link Obama to a FARC conspiracy. That’s how out of touch you are. Again, your post is full of nothing but lies and innuendo. A desperate attempt to associate him with scary brown people. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope for you. What scares me is that it’s someone like you lining up bullets and polishing their gun. You believe the tripe that comes out of Hannity and Limbaugh. Yet I’m sure you see nothing wrong with the Palins belonging to a radical fundamentalist separatist movement.

    I’ve got actual work to do, so I’m not going to go tit-for-tat with you. Have a great life being afraid.

  44. YOu guys are missing it; McCain had male on male sex in prison camp those long six years and for some reason as fucked up as it is I am ok with it. Ans lets say for a second I agree with you that he did not. well then I bet that atleast one guy saw him rub one out be it Charlie or his co piolt.. In my camp that is gay but on a national scale I suppose it is cool. I waould also be down with Obama if he admitted he liked white girls. Did Tony Dorsett endorse BO yet?

    beer me

  45. A more socially adjusted version of Wallace vs whomever.

    I still doubt the brother from another mother will spend 10 billion per month.

    fuck all.

  46. Gnome—Obama has said he wants to deploy troops where there is “genocide”. Combine that with the recent creation of AFRICOM, or the Africa Command, and chances are real good we’ll have troops in some godforsaken African country during an Obama presidency. Or a McCain presidency, for that matter. 10 billion a month? Sure. We’re not getting out of Iraq any time soon. Not with an embassy the size of the Vatican built there.

  47. …it fucking amazes me that after 8 years of george w bush, that any of you pricks could point fingers at obama & say he’s not qualified or doesn’t have the necessary experience…

    …are you blind to just how little gwb has actually accomplished in those eight years ???…without someone holding his hand & whispering instructions in his ear, he couldn’t wipe his own fucking ass…obama is at least capable of original thought..

    …& yer boy mccain, yer super patriot ‘war hero’ ???…he fucked up so many times before he ended up in the ‘hanoi hilton’ that that was like some kinda weird karmic redemption…

    …& ya, i do give the man credit for doing it the hard way & not caving in when after years of torture, he refused to leave w/out his fellow american p.o.w.’s…call it patriotism, call it balls, maybe even call it guilt…whatever, he did do it…

    …& it obviously cleaned his slate enough so that now he gets his shot to try for the brass ring…but he did allow his disingenuous “rove-ian” campaign to step way over the line when they though it was to their benefit…this recent “backing off” of the disgusting insults he’s thrust in obamas direction has only come about because it’s been affecting the polls…they’re desperate, they’re scared & it feels like they’d try anything to accomplish their goals…

    …if you consider that to be “good & honest” politics, then i suggest you take the time to re-examine your moral fiber…

    …& guys like kg & smarter thanyou literally fucking ‘parroting’ the repugs take on the ayers business is getting moronic…just as supporting the idea of palin being anywhere near an intelligent v.p. choice is equally moronic…

    …not intellectualizing but just sayin’…

  48. …post script:…i will be so fucking glad to see this election ‘decided’ & who knows just how final &/or honest the results will be…

    …this election is the biggest barometer of the american psyche we’ve ever seen in our lifetime & yet it’s being swayed by so much dishonesty & misdirection that the rest of the world can’t help but wonder exactly what matters to the ‘average’ american citizen any more…

  49. STY,
    Remember, it was you that brought his race up when I said your post was full of lies and innuendo. Nice comeback.

    I love how people who just want to hate on Obama, won’t actually say they are FOR McCain, or anybody for that matter. There are way more skeleton’s in McCain’s closet, and the links are a lot closer and more real. My point is that this should have been kept about the issues the whole time, but Republicans can’t help themselves, and they’ve taken into the mud, and they are probably going to lose for it. Now they are showing themselves for the mean, spiteful creatures they are. I’d say I’ll be happy when this election is over, but Faux News/the RNC are going to spend the next 4-8 years trying to destroy Obama. Eventually it will work, and it will have nothing to do with whether it’s true or not. Repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth.

  50. Smarter Thanyou,
    What kills me about engaging with you is the condescending, arrogant bullshit of it. You’re bucking for Pineapple’s job. You actually told me to “grow up.” Do you think I’m twelve? I’m starting to think I know you. As in we’ve met. I think I know who you are. And it’s beginning to piss me off. By the time I’m done writing this I’ll be done being pissed.

    This is not objectivecyclist. This is drunkcyclist. You know that already. These are opinion pieces. We are not penning objective journalism here. We are spouting off idea and knocking some shit around. You want fair and balanced, try Fox News.

    Especially since from your point of view, Obama’s marxist associations are probably a good thing.

    No. I don’t actually believe those associations exist. Someone had a poster on a wall, a t-shirt or a flag. Great. I and drink at a bar called Che’s Lounge when I’m in Tucson and I don’t go out of my way to denounce the painting of Che Guevara on the wall. Now I’m a fucking Marxist…

    I didn’t imply that Obama is a Nazi by using the word Herr. You inferred too much.

    Herr as defined by Merriam-Webster: “used among German-speaking people as a title equivalent to Mr.”

    It is clearly a reference to Obama being German. If you didn’t mean “Nazi”, then what did you mean? That my man whips up a mean strudel?

    You named two main points of concern; a commander in chief who is capable of leading the military, and will appoint supreme court justices who lean heavily on the concept of legislative intent. I have first a question: Is military service a prerequisite for the Presidency? No, it is not. Should it be? I’m not 100% against the idea myself, but this is a bit late in the game to introduce such a requirement. And I mean a hundred years late in the game. George W. Bush’s military experience is, at best, slim. Reagan’s, slim. Where are we setting the bar?

    And, two, I take it you do not like Justice Scalia? He is a Textualist. A court cannot repeal or amend legislation, so what do you believe the role of the court is exactly?

    I’ve lived under socialized medicine, and prefer what we have now, as broken as it is.

    Where and when did you live under socialized medicine? In this county? As you say you “prefer what we have now”, I am led to believe are not comparing the U.S. health care system to that of another country where you lived in previously. Am I right in that assumption? The closest to socialized health care in this country, that I am aware of, is in the military.

    And I left this out for last:

    You’ve been assaulted on the road. Haven’t you learned yet that with some people talking reason won’t end an altercation?

    Yes. I have been the victim of an assault. And you have no way of knowing, other than through my words and actions, what I have learned from that experience. So listen to me very carefully. The man who hit me had been incarcerated previously for drunk driving. He did not have a drivers license. He did not own a car. And, yet, he was behind the wheel of the car that hit me. What I have learned is the jail time and revocation of his state issued drivers license did not keep me safe. And when I actually talked to the man, that is what made a difference in my life. That is what helped me to heal.

    Would you point at a rape victim and ask what they’ve learned from their “expericence”? How about someone who was robbed, or shot, or stabbed? What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you even realize how insulting you are? Do you even care?

  51. Bikesgonewild — you sound like you’ve got an extra chromosome. That W was not qualified to run a military does not render Obama qualified. After that incompetent douchebag Clinton eviscerated the military, and misused it when he wanted a distraction from Lewinsky, and misused it in Somalia, etc, etc, you want another 4 years of incompetence in command of the military? And another thing. Not once did I mention Ayers. Alinsky. Read it again. Alinsky. Different bloke. Marxist through and through.

    BJ, how you love your straw man argument. Stay with the thread. My point about altercations was not about what you do to heal afterward, but how do you avoid the hit in the first place? E.g., I was near-missed by a moron who then had to stop at a red light. I rode up and asked him to give bikers three feet per the law. The moron then started following me looking to goad me into a fight. He cut me off by pulling onto the shoulder in front of me. At that point the only thing he could understand was force and the will to use it. He bolted when I ditched the bike and went to pull his door open. My point is that there is no reasoning with such a person before the harm occurs. You either pull out the bigger stick or put up with whatever he dishes out. Obama’s opinion on how to deal with Russia and Ahmindinjad is very, very weak.

    You don’t believe the Marxist associations exist? He taught seminars on how to practice Alinsky’s methods! Just because you doubt something does not make it untrue.

    You’re still wrong about my use of the word Herr. I didn’t imply he’s a Nazi, even though that’s what you inferred. Get over it. My opposition to Obama has nothing to do with his race or religion.

    And yes, I lived in a Socialist European country for a few years, so I have first hand experience with socialized medicine. I needed to see a doc, but the wait was too long for government care. I paid out of pocket to see a non-government doc. This guy was from some Eastern Bloc country, and his medical pedigree was suspect. He looked at my tongue and in my ears, then pronounced a diagnosis of a rare flu bug and gave me an antibiotic prescription. WTF? How do you diagnose that without a throat culture or some other diagnostic test more pertinent than eyeballing me? Have a non-life threatening condition? Be prepared to wait six to 18 months for an appointment to have it treated. The point is this, to state the obvious, it is stupidity to move closer to a European or Canadian socialized health care system. Have you not read Atlas Shrugged?

    Enough of this Obama circle jerk. When the best y’all can come up with in his support is that W wasn’t qualified to lead a military so it’s ok that Obama isn’t either, y’all couldn’t stand the truth and reason.

    BJ, you kicked this off with your inapposite legal analysis why you think Todd Palin committed Sedition and Treason. You better hope that whomever you interview with for that 2d Summer clerkship doesn’t read this blog because it’ll kill any chance you’d have for a job. Not for political reasons, but for sheer incompetence. Hang on to the post, though, because you’ll laugh at how naive and wrong it is someday in the future when you might have a clue about law.

  52. My point is that there is no reasoning with such a person before the harm occurs. You either pull out the bigger stick or put up with whatever he dishes out.

    And when you get mowed down from behind like I did? Then what? I was in the bike lane in broad daylight and wearing bright clothing. How else does one “avoid the hit in the first place”? It was you that brought up the fact that I had been the victim of an assault. And now I’m misrepresenting your position in some manner? It is not my straw man argument. It is yours. You are the one misrepresenting me.

    You almost got in a punch up and my daughter almost grew up without a father. You have no idea what buttons you’re pushing, yet you push them anyway. Classy. I’m really stoked your tough. I’m not tough. I just took a hit from a car going 55 miles per hour and I’ll never be the same man I once was.

    Todd Palin’s association with the AIP is as relevant to this conversation as anything you mentioned about Barack Obama. Can you not see the ankle deep pile of irony you are standing in? Did you not read the piece I linked? Do you think this is the only website to post such content? Do a websearch for Todd Palin – Alaskan Independence Party and see what lands in your lap. What part of “The AIP does not put Country First” is hard to understand. And you think what I wrote was an “inapposite legal analysis”?

    In case anyone reading this is wondering, “inapposite” mean “inappropriate.” He (or she) is saying I tried to write an legal-ish analysis of the situation at hand, but I’m so fucking incompetent that I misapplied the facts to the law.

    Dude(ette). Seriously. You are out of your god damned mind. This blog has nothing to do with “law”. And, nothing you have written in this comment section has anything to do with “law” either.

    This is not legal analysis. I feel like a broken record. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t care about a second summer clerkship. I’m not looking to have a second summer clerkship. I don’t need a second summer clerkship. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I feel like a broken record. I do not need a second summer clerkship in order to have a job. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I feel like a broken record.

    God damn (wo)man. I hope you’re happy. I don’t know what you do out there in the world, but (wo)man, you must be damn good at it. You sure mopped the floor with me.

    Update: In my haste I forgot to mention Alinsky. He’s been credited with coining the phrase “Thinking Globally, Acting Locally.” My God… We’re all doomed if I’ve been following the tainted path that man set out for all these years… Me and 85% percent of college freshmen at every state university in the country. And anyone who has ever set foot in a Trader Joe’s…

    Update 2: Why do you have to play the incompetent card? If you went through law school (and I have no way of knowing if you have, but I’m leaning toward no) then you’d know that there is a pretty wide range of folks that’ll be unleashed on the world in three short years sitting with me through Torts, Contracts and Criminal Law. We as a group are all over the map on most issues, but “incompetence” is not something I’ve heard anyone bat around during lecture. The fact that you continually take the low road is not helping your position. In fact, it makes me think you’re a punk.

  53. …wow…i don’t stand a chance here…i’ve been so bested & so put in my place…

    “an extra chromosome”…touche, amigo…but does that rapier wit mean you’re an imposed upon psychologist & that you find it necessary to rent my fragile ego asunder or, hmmm, maybe a certified medical professional offering a ‘hofmeister-ian’ diagnosis & i should be concerned about my ‘chromosomatic’ health ???…or perhaps you’re just a very defensive human being w/ a quasi-intellectual bent ???…

    …now, of course, in a true intellectual there would be less of the misinterpretation & therefore less of the redundancy you seem to operate with…but then again, were a true intellectual to visit drunkcyclist, i’d venture to say they just might impose a more positive message regarding their interpretation of their perceptions, in order to facilitate the growth of intellects not quite up to their standards…but i doubt that altruism is really something you’ll ever have to concern yourself with…

    …i shan’t burden you w/ what i really think you’re made up of, amigo but i do think you should share your “erudition” w/ those who give a fuck…

    …just sayin’…

  54. Something the smarter than you guy said made me think. He argues that one of the reasons he is afraid of an Obama presidency is that Obama has no military experience and is thereby unqualified to act as ‘Commander in Chief.’ Presumably, then, he is arguing that McCain is a better choice because he, indeed does have that crucial military experience. The problem I see is that McCain wasn’t exactly all that good at being in the military. He was graduated near the bottom of his class at Anapolis, shot down in Vietnam, etc. The man’s claim to fame, at least from the perspective of his ‘military experience’ is that he sucked at his job, and frankly, I’m unsure if sucking is a good quality for being a president. ‘…just sayin…’

  55. A couple of last comments and then I’ll leave your sandbox.

    Granted McCain was a bottom feeder in military school. Let’s see, BJ takes a car up the ass and garners sympathy. McCain took an anti-aircraft missle up the ass and he’s therefore incompetent. Obama stuck his head up his ass, lost his job at Sidley & Austin, and became a community organizer, which makes him competent to run a military cf. John McCain? An editor in chief of Harvard Law Review couldn’t find a more lucrative job than as a community organizer? He should have been able to write his own ticket at any major law firm in NYC or DC and he ends up being essentially a social worker? Yeah, give that guy the military.

    Did you hear Obama’s tax plan quotes from yesterday spoken to the plumber?

    “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too.”

    Paraphrasing because I don’t have the exact quote, I just want to spread the wealth around.

    Give Obama credit for being honest about what he’s going to do — tax the hell out of everyone above poverty level to equalize wealth — from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

    If you’re a wrench in a bike shop, that probably sounds good. If you’re the manager at KFC or better, that sucks. It’s fairly obvious where the readers of this esteemed blog fall on the economic scale.

    Finally, I’ve got nothing but sympathy for your injuries suffered by being plowed from behind. Kudos to you for reconciling with the bag that plowed you. Too bad you failed to grasp the analogy.

    Nevertheless, why do you play the martyr card for sympathy to excuse your weak sedition analysis re: Todd Palin and the AIP?

    If you and your readers get Obama, you deserve what follows.

    It’s your blog, and you and your loyal readership get the last word. Blast away.

  56. No. After thinking about it, I’m not done.

    1) You wrote:

    ”You’ve been assaulted on the road. Haven’t you learned yet that with some people talking reason won’t end an altercation?”

    It seems quite clear you are saying I was hurt and I should know better. Please explain how I “failed to grasp the analogy” as you put it.

    2) The latest critique of Barack Obama you have offered is one of earnings potential. You have suggested that since he failed, as is his due as a Harvard graduate, to obtain and maintain employment with the highest possible rate of compensation demonstrates that he is not capable of leading the military. Please explain how you find there to be a relationship between the maximization of one’s earnings potential and competency to be Commander in Chief.

  57. …”An editor in chief of Harvard Law Review couldn’t find a more lucrative job than as a community organizer? He should have been able to write his own ticket at any major law firm in NYC or DC and he ends up being essentially a social worker? Yeah, give that guy the military.“…quote from our pal (not)smarter thanyou…

    …first & foremost, i’d suggest that there are those in our society who feel compelled to give back to the community through basic fundamental ‘hands-on’ work…it’s also a learning process…& speaking of presidential material, the “retired” jimmy carter is a wonderful example…a gentleman who’s life could obviously still be very privileged, yet he chooses to work amongst the laity, for the good of others less privileged…

    …& rather than wait for your scalding review of carter’s military utilization, i’m fully aware of the deficiencies in carter’s administration…but the fact remains that james earl carter jr was undoubtedly the most honest human being to hold the office of president of the united states, in our lifetime…

    …i believe obama is also a fundamentally honest person, whereas i find mccain to always be looking over his shoulder & covering his ass, “war hero” or not…

    …anyway, as i mentioned before, altruism doesn’t appear to be your strong suit, so i guess you wouldn’t “get it”…but then, that’s neither here nor there…

    …you wanna talk about obama versus mccain regarding the military ???…mccain has proven that when the shit hits the fan, he’s a fallback guy…& he will fall back on the same military advice & strategy that bushco has utilized for years…i give obama credit for being enough of an original thinker to at least expand his circle of reference in regard to military strategists…

    …(btw, gwb has never had an original thought come out of his mind that could be applied to the presidency…talk about cut & paste…we should reserve our vitriol for others & feel empathy towards a man way in over his head)…

    “Don’tcha think maybe ****(& we’ll leave the ‘herr’ out so you don’t have to be redundant) Obama shares Alinsky’s beliefs? If so, would you think there might be a pattern association with such thinkers?…again, i’d have to give credit to obama for not only exploring ‘outside the box’ but also for having the intelligence to pick & choose what might &/or might not work…does that align him w/ alinsky ???…i think not…

    …again, the man is not afraid to utilize an expanded frame of reference…i applaud the fact that he stands on his own two feet & takes a serious look around at the alternatives…if any one of the two candidates should be called “maverick”, i daresay it’s obama…

    …finally…while he doesn’t need my help, i find your condemnation of big jonny’s law school studies, while run through the filter of comparison regarding his accident, to be highly curious…smacks of what must be some type of personal experience in your past…undoubtedly different circumstances but similar reaction, perhaps ???…that’s called projection…

    …& please…don’t pee in the sandbox when you leave…

  58. McCain just can’t help himself. The head of his transition team has been linked to a lobbying effort on behalf of SADDAM MOTHERFUCKING HUSSEIN. Two of his colleagues were convicted on federal charges for aiding Hussein’s government, while it was considered a terrorist state. How can anyone still trust anything that McCain says. His campaign now has over 40 lobbyists in it’s upper ranks. Some pal around with dictators.

  59. …the mccain / palin ticket is basically down to trying to convince their own regular voters that they’ve got the goods w/ the innuendo of “because i believe in this great country“…

    …hard to believe they could attract or convince independents w/ their now vastly sad & tired routines…wrap it all up in an american flag & it’s “see this flag, america…you can tell i believe in this great country“…

    …lie, cheat, steal & shit on your doorstep but “hey, no way, folks, they did that…me ???…i believe in this great country“…

    …well…a lot of us “believe in this great country” but we’d like to see it brought back to a healthy state both internally & throughout the world…

    …i hope the de-evolution of morals & values, brought to us by the mccain / palin ticket can be clearly seen by the majority of americans…it’s become rather despicable…

  60. Smarter – “Let’s see, BJ takes a car up the ass and garners sympathy. McCain took an anti-aircraft missle up the ass and he’s therefore incompetent. ”

    Of all of the statements you made, ridiculous as many were, this is perhaps the most. How you tie these two together is beyond my small brain. As with most statements, you pick those that fit your argument and insert.

    Arguably, your statement could be correct. BJ was just riding along, obey the law etc. and got taken out. McCain failed to avoid getting shot down while flying over enemy territory. I could say he therefore did not do his job well, and is incompetent, correct?
    All else aside, I find this comment lacking any tact.
    Want to impress me? Tell me one good reason BJ SHOULD NOT garner any sympathy? Seriously, are you that much of an asshole?

    I almost hate to mention it as it is getting pretty run out, but is Obama any worse a Commander than Palin would potentially be? You want a Hockey Mom coaching? I can imagine. “ok boys, we’re down, we need to get things going, send in the goons and start a fight, that will be a great motivator…and we’ll make Christians of them in the process!”

    You must just be so pissed because it is starting to look really dark for the Reps.

  61. Sigh.

    BJ, I meant to give you the last word, but you invited response.

    If you’ll re-read my comments, there’s nothing to support the contention that you got what you deserved or could have prevented getting smacked in the ass by the drunk. As much as I disdain your political point of view and lame attack on Todd Palin, I have sympathy for the loss of your cycling ability because of the hit.

    Was it your fault? How am I supposed to know?

    You’re probably still studying the squibb in the crowd case in torts and haven’t gotten to proximate cause, intervening cause, contributory negligence, etc. re: negligence. If you hadn’t gone on the ride that day, if you had stopped to pee, if you hadn’t rolled through the stop sign somewhere along the way, would you have been hit? Did you have the last clear chance to avoid the hit? Blah, blah, blah. You missed my point entirely. If you can’t figure it out, there’s no helping you.

    From what you’ve written, you are permanently disabled to some extent, and that sucks regardless of your stupid political point of view.

    As for this whole Obama for president joke, what is utterly missing above is any reason to vote for Obama. Y’all have given reasons or excuses to not vote McCain, but there is no reason to vote for Obama. Why? No executive experience whatsoever. A piddling two years as a Senator. Gross ignorance on foreign policy. Marxist-socialist proclivities. Clinton disdain for U.S. military 2.0. (Obama went to Iraq and then shot hoops instead of hanging with the troops. Enough said) Taxes for all — and if you believe that he’ll reduce taxes for 95% of us, you’re drunk on the Kool-Aid he’s serving. How is he going to reduce taxes for the 25% of the population that doesn’t pay taxes anyway?

    Obama’s promise is as stupid as McCain bragging that he knows how to get bin Laden. Right. If he knows, why is he keeping it a secret?

    More stupid is Obama bragging that he’s going to create jobs. Pure bullshit. He wouldn’t know how to create a job if his life depended on it. If there is one certain way to create jobs, the Irish model is the way to go. Reduce start up red tape and reduce taxes. What happens next? Boom town economy.

    Where is the boom in manufacturing? China and the Far East. Ask yourself why. Stifling start up regs and confiscatory taxes. Just the opposite.

    What is Obama going to do? Let him tell you in his own words. “Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to “spread the wealth around” — a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a “socialist” at the Republican’s rallies.

    “Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.

    “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream.”

    “It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too,” Obama responded. “My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

    From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Obama will arbitrarily decide I’ve got too much, take it from me, waste 90% in bureaucratic bungling, and dole out 10% to the undeserving slackers

    That’s great if you’re a bike wrench working for near minimum. Sucks if you’re as prosperous or more than a manager at KFC.

    One of Obama’s lies is that he won’t increase taxes on anyone who makes more than $250k. But he will raise taxes on businesses. If you’re a mom and pop who incorporated or organized as an LLC, you’re screwed even if you’re pulling less than $250k out of the business.

    If you’ve never tried to start up a business with employees, you have no idea how hard it is to comply with the regs, ordinances, licensing, and insurances, etc., and then get smacked in the ass with confiscatory taxes. Obama will pile on more layers of regs and taxes and hinder the economy even more, one small business at a time.

    So y’all can go back to calling Sarah P the “C” word. Nice grace and tact there. Go after Bristol when media couldn’t even mention Chelsea Clinton without getting banned from the White House. Olbermann, Maddow,Maher, and Franken, are the epitome of grace, tact, and manners, aren’t they?

    Here’s a suggested reading list before the November elections:

    Civil Rights: Rhetoric or Reality. Thomas Sowell
    The Worldly Philosophers. Heilbroner
    Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand

    Open your mind and use it.

    Again, last word for you.


  62. and when I said closely tied to business and ain’t talking mom and pop. This government is allowing “Big Business” outside of our borders to control our military and political actions. The American manufactoring age is dead as Mr Hussien.
    I truly believe that there are some that would like to change the cocked direction this country is leading into. Tell me if I am wrong but it pisses me off that the dude driving a lease BMW and a house big enough to fit 3 of my houses is going to get his or her mortage reduce or covered at a lower rate, or maybe just written off. Irresponibility has become regularity.

  63. …sty…never lost an argument in your life, huh ???…the all consuming dogmatism wouldn’t allow for that, indubitably…

    …well, sir, you don’t lack intelligence & you’ve obviously done some homework but i’d suggest that your views are perhaps not as well rounded or inclusive as you might suppose…as chronicled in another blog on this site, ‘the economist’ has a reasonably fair & well balanced analysis of our ‘gloved opponents’…

    “Olbermann, Maddow,Maher, and Franken, are the epitome of grace, tact, and manners, aren’t they?”…certainly not, but they are pretty fair in their assessment of the national political scene…perhaps it’s the fact that they capable of utilizing a little humor whilst discussing serious matters, that you find offensive…

    …just sayin’…

  64. One thing no ones brought up about the Alaska Independence Party. For a time they were taken over pretty much by a faction of Republicans who weren’t at all happy about their parties choice for Gov. This gave us Wally Hickel (a Republican running on A. I. P.) winning a three way race and the bumper sticker “Pot got more votes then Hickel” as on the same ballot keeping pot legal got 48% of the vote. Just a fun Alaska fact.

  65. sigh.

    smarter – you should rename yourself – Holier thanthou – that is my suggestion at least.

    Remember, one person’s “stupid opinions” is another’s fact. It is an opinion. You can choose to differ, but when it comes to politics you are trying to climb a greased poll to prove any one policy is good or bad. Just like and opinion, policies/platforms are essentially good or bad based on the eye of the beholder.

    You do a good job in bringing up fair, relevant points for any given candidate and shrugging off those that don’t support your arguments well. Basically like statistical cherry picking.
    Contrary to your insinuations, or I guess flat out accusations that everyone here basically has one had down their pants as they type OBAMA, there are actually many open minds. Unlike yours. You take an excellent lawyerlike approach in proving your points, which is to only point out arugments that support your stance.

    You take a statement like “spread the wealth” or “cunt” and apply it broadly. No thanks. I don’t like Palin, but haven’t called her a cunt. I think she is a joke of a VP candidate, and any dismissal of Obama’s leadership abilities is about neutralized by her (lack of)merits. McCain as a leader…what makes him a good choice? Really?

    Is ANYONE truly fit to lead a country? Probably a sign of a good leader is their ability to surround themselves with good talent, good advisors who actually know their shit. Does a president really know military tactics? the economy of the former soviet republics? No, they rely on good info from the EXPERTS. Think GW Bush and the Iraq invasion arguments.
    So…Obama selected BIDEN as his VP. Not a bad choice really. McCain selected Palin. Horrible choice. Seriously, I have some hardcore Rep. friends who are so dismayed by this choice. They’ll still vote McCain but are hoping like hell Palin stays at snowmobile races if McCain wins. This is a huge statement to me. Will Obama turn this country into a socialist state single handedly? come on, you know better I assume…no president has that much power. Checks and balances it is called, and overall works fairly well I would say.

    By the way, when was the last time someone mentioned Bristol on this site? You are trying to make arguments where there doesn’t appear to be one.
    And please don’t make up numbers, like 90% this, 10% that…you sound like another cheesy campaign ad. Back them up with facts and I’ll listen. If not then you are just another opinion on some web site.

  66. It’s been a week or so. Time to fire this bad boy up again.

    To you, Pirata, sir: Ok, call me Holierthanthou. I’m not really, but if you feel I am, well, ok then.

    Obama can’t singlehandedly turn the U.S. into Sweden 2.0, but he can try if given the chance. And if he gets 60 Seats in the Senate and majority in the House, he will be able to turn us into Sweden. Of Poland, or whatever other quasi-democratic-socialist state you’d like to emulate. Seriously — name a country that has prospered by moving away from a low tax, free market economy towards a more socialist state. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Just what I thought. Crickets.

    Which way did the Far East move? Totalitarian towards capitalism. What happened? Booming economies. What happened in Ireland?

    What will happen under Obama’s and OBiden’s redistribution of wealth policies?

    As for a wasteful gummint with our dollars, and they are our dollars, just what good has come from the Fed endowing Paulson with $700Billion? Market turn out ok? No. Credit free up? No. Consumer spending up? No. AIG party up? Yes.

    Here’s a thought. Don’t cut the poor a check for $2k for them to blow at Walmart on Chinese crap. Let’s build infrastructure — repair bridges, roads, update schools, etc. Put people to work — aren’t there a few construction workers looking for work these days? Build nuclear power plants. Build a few more gasoline refineries. Bring in the natural gas for use in vehicles — plentiful and burns cleaner than liquid dinosaurs. Get the idea?

    Here’s an object lesson in Obamanomics: Pardon the cut and paste, but it’s just so fun to do!

    “Shrimp ‘n Grits
    Income Redistribution – A fulfilling experiment when personally applied!
    Lee Walton
    Last Thursday while walking to lunch on the corner of Market and East Bay, I passed what appeared to be a homeless man standing on the corner of Wentworth and East Bay holding a hand-made sign that read, “Vote Obama, I need the money.”, I laughed to myself and admired the man for his misplaced, albeit blatant honesty.

    Once inside one of my favorite restaurants, I noticed that my waiter was wearing a bright blue ,“Obama 08” tie; again I laughed to myself as he boldly and proudly advertised his political preference for all the world, and his customers, to see — just imagine the odds of encountering two such 1st Amendment harbingers of change in less than 10-minutes.

    When the check finally came I decided not to tip my waiter and explained to him that I was going to implement a practical application of Obama’s Redistribution of Wealth concept as my own personal socialistic experiment. He stood there in stoic disbelief as I explained to him that I was going to redistribute his rightfully earned $10 tip to someone who I deemed more in need…a homeless fellow standing a few blocks north in front of the Harris Teeter parking lot. The waiter stammered a few “Why practice on me? I’m just a local college student!” retorts and then angrily stormed away from the table in a steaming huff of progressive self-righteous indignation.
    Apparently, after experiencing firsthand the application of such socialistic governance from the perspective of the rightful wage earner, my young liberal-minded waiter was quickly convinced that income redistribution was much easier to support as a noble, magnanimous social policy than when his own hard-earned income was about to be redistributed, against his will, to another I deemed more needy.

    I went outside, walked back up to Wentworth, gave the homeless guy a $10 bill, and asked him to walk down to the restaurant on the corner and thank the waiter there who was wearing the “Obama 08” tie as I’ve decided he could use the money more than my waiter who had actually earned the $10. The homeless fellow smiled in grateful disbelief, tossed his sign in the hedge, and promptly bounded for the liquor store across the street.

    At the end of this impromptu and rather unscientific income redistribution experiment I realized the homeless fellow was truly grateful for the money that he had not exerted any effort to earn, but my liberal-minded waiter was highly indignant that I would take from him and then give to another the honest wages that he had worked hard to earn even though the homeless recipient needed the money more.

    As I walked back to my office, I began thinking about the heavy burden of corporate ownership and the endless frustration from beating my head against the wall of increasing bureaucracy year-after-year. I also thought of the majority of this year’s hard-earned profits that I had planned to reinvest in a few new employees, annual raises to reward loyalty and hard work, Christmas bonuses for extraordinary effort, and year-end corporate donations to the SC Aquarium, Coastal Conservation League, and the Historic Charleston Foundation.

    After reconsidering my apparent politically incorrect capitalistic beliefs, the needs of my hard-working, albeit financially struggling, middle-class staff, and the six-figure salaries of the three non-profits’ directors sitting in the big stately, well-maintained buildings that each called home, I decided then and there to give every last penny of this year’s profit directly to Charleston’s Homeless Shelter, layoff all my staff, close our company, retire early, and depend upon the largesse of Obama’s promised Redistribution of Wealth for my every need!
    In that brief instance, I too became a practicing socialist!”

    And so I close.

    Not perfect, not the smartest, but according to Pirata, Holierthanthou.

    I’ll settle for Smarter Thanyou

  67. …pirata…you are quite fucking right…this clown really should change his handle to ‘holierthan thou’ simply because that’s what he’s striving to be…he’s intelligent & well read but his “answers” aren’t answers but opinions…

    …if he was truly ‘smarter thanyou’ he would have the awareness to realize that about himself…he would also have made a realization about halfway through his little analogous story, that the load of bullshit he was trying to foist on the dc regulars was just one more little opinionated viewpoint…nothing based on fact, but simple supposition…

    …ya know who’s smarter than “smarter than you” ???…barack obama…& that’s why he’ll rely on people like alan greenspan for financial advice, rather than guys like (not so) ‘smarter thanyou’

    …just sayin’…