by 
Got this in an email from Alaska of all places…hope this clears things up for you Jonny!
‘. . . I’m a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight…..
If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you’re ‘exotic, different.’
[If you] grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, [you have lived the] quintessential American story.
If your name is Barack your [name is an indication of] a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you’re well grounded.
If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a
district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you don’t have any real leadership experience.If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you’re qualified to become the country’s second highest ranking executive.
If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian.
If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you’re a Christian.
If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of the Lessina birth control pill, you are eroding the fiber of society.
If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system while your unwed teen daughter
ends up pregnant, you’re very responsible.If your wife is a Harvard graduate laywer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family’s values don’t represent America’s.
If you’re husband is nicknamed ‘First Dude’, with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is admirable.
OK, much clearer now. . .’
by 
Not to be a bitch or anything, but this was posted earlier in a reply about Palin. I really agree with everything here, but don’t you guys read your own shit?
durka?
If you hang out with people who kill cops… I don’t want you as president. And by hang out I mean, go to their house with your family for an event in your honor and work together for years.
If you support the senseless death of our service members in Iraq…I don’t want you for a Commander in Chief. And by support, I mean sending 18-20 year old kids to work as a police force in a country that doesn’t want us there only to be attacked by roadside bombs, snipers and ambushes by an enemy that can’t be identified by there uniforms. KG, I don’t think you’ve been paying attention.
nice work LD. i’m pick’n up what you’re puttn’ down.
The “cop killer connection” is getting old. Definitely worth noting, which has been done, but a bit hackneyed at this point.
No doubt the above is classic political spin, but there is truth there as well if you can filter out the weighted coloring.
Is Palin any better?
KG,
Again, NO COPS DIED AS A RESULT OF THE WEATHER UNDERGROUND BOMBS. Get your motherfucking facts straight. The only people that died were Weather Underground members, in their own townhouse, when their own bomb went off. Bill Ayers never killed anyone.
Your arguments are far weaker because you refuse to accept simple facts. I hope you teach your students better than this.
el jefe? really?
So if I provide evidence of cops killed… will you change your mind?
Are their bodies in your freezer?
http://www.sfpoa.org/journal/journals/20070201.pdf
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/4095
The idea that no one got killed by themselves comes from the former Weathermen. So if the former Weathermen said they killed no one, then I guess you have to believe them. But if an FBI mole say that they admitted killing the cop, then he must be lying.
Who’s word do you take, the FBI, the the people who knowingly made and planted bombs, but just not that one.
Like the FBI who helped the CIA come up with proof of WMDs? Oh yeah. I TOTALLY believe them.
Gee KG, you are so right.. our government or the FBI has never lied about anything to promote their own agenda…..
one word for you bro…Hoover
Canada Free Press is a right wing propaganda site, and shouldn’t be trusted any more than Faux News. The other link gives no information on who was responsible. FactCheck.org states that the only people who died in any Weather Underground bombings were three of their own members. Was Ayers a saint? Of course not. He did some nefarious things, which I can’t support. But, your guilt by association for Obama is a stretch at best. How old was Obama when any of that happened? I think it was about 8.
At the very best, Ayers and Dohrn merely tried to kill cops, that’s the very best. The planted bombs at police stations, the pentagon, at the homes of Justices and were building bombs to plant at an NCO dance. The VERY best you can say is they only ATTEMPTED to kill cops and other people.
That’s IF you believe the testimony of an FBI agent (a cop), under oath, over a group that admittedly planted bombs all over the place.
Now some you are obviously not very fond of the FBI (cops) so maybe you don’t see it as a big deal that they ONLY tried to kill cops.
And it happened when he was 8.
So would you associate, (work with, let them throw a fundraiser for you) with someone who ONLY tried to kill cops?
The other problem with the cop killer or wannbe cop killer link – it is only a link.
Think of all of the people you have associated with, were they all saints? Maybe some were real bad people. Does that connection mean you support(ed) their deviance? If you associate with bad people does that mean you are bad? In some ways, association with a vaireiety of good and bad people may actually be a good thing, teaches one about many different facets of life.
Obama wasn’t sitting there making the bombs. Not giving pointers on them. Not providing money. Not really supporting much at all right? So I am not too concerned about the apparent connection. Like I said, worth noting, but the hype is political overkill.
Again, I ask, would you let someone like Ayers and Dohrn throw you a fundraiser? Would you take your family to their house, knowing that at the very least, he attempted to kill cops and others.
Would you?
This “not a saint” comment is kind of gross. When kids experiment with drugs in high school and get in trouble maybe the term “not a saint” comes into play, but when you’re taking about placing bombs, the term “not a saint” doesn’t even come close.
“Guilty as hell, free as a bird.” Bill Ayers.
OK – whatever. for fuck’s sake. Both sides are right; please stop this inane tripe. it’s exhausting and totally irrelevant. How bout them Eagles, BJ?
I’m still looking for someone to answer the basic question, would YOU go do Ayers and Dohrn’s house for a party in your honor?
If it’s irrelevant, then give me your irrelevant answer.
KG,
Look, I’m not convincing you. You’re not going to convince me. Period. How many times have we had this argument? Neither one of us will have to make the choice of having to attend an Ayers sponsored fundraiser for us. Just ain’t gonna’ happen. It’s a silly question. I’m sick of arguing with you. You’re a conservative fucktard, and I’m a liberal commie asshole. We each think the other’s views will bring down western civilization. Hold on to your scurrilous argument. You can go hang out with Hannity and Limbaugh. I hope it works out for you. Good-bye.
Sounds like you folks watch too much TV.
The cops work for the banks.Period.
The banks think you are their serfs.Period.
If you believe the public discourse they might be right.Period.
If you’re killin’ cops I will pitch in for bullets.
If you are killing bankers,politicos and their ilk I will aid you with my life,my fortune and my sacred honor.
If you are playing the Market you are a fool,a parasite or both.
If you were born inna trailer park you prolly ride a fixie…
If you are reading this post you ain’t ridin’ your fixie.
I gotta go,the desert calls…
Are we saying that Obama is linked to Ice T?
“If you were born inna trailer park you prolly ride a fixie…”
This might be the greatest line in the history of DC.
word
So if Ayers is such a crimenal why is he still on the streets? Seems to me you would want to arrest and try such a man then put him awayfor a long time. But maybe you would need real evidenceto all of that, better we just keep yelling “cop killer” at him untill it does become true.
See…and I was thinking this one was pretty high up there! LOL.
“You’re a conservative fucktard, and I’m a liberal commie asshole. We each think the other’s views will bring down western civilization. “
jeeze, what a bunch of old cranks. (please be diverse, and insert your own crank joke)
Aristotelian logic and socratic method and not bizzare thumpa thumpa bands from the 80’s.
up the discourse..
Nyaah!Nyaah!Nyaah!is not a high level of intelectual engagement.
maybe a political bitchin thread req’d to be in verse?
you could tell whom, up where, to shove it,
sans offence, if formed in a perfect couplet.
I knew there was a reason I don’t read the comments anymore. Thanks for the reminder, KG.
ps. get to work on that mid renge jumper. you ain’t gettin any younger.
for the first time in a long time I feel like i took the short bus here.
how does cop killing play in this post again?
There’s only one choice for president here. Go ahead and vote for the the old prick and the cunt. The people that don’t want the same shit happening for the next 4 years know whats right. Whats right will work, not worried about defending this here, its just the truth. And I don’t come back to check replies, my point is made and real people agree. Fuck you to everyone else.
“Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.”
Actually, this is like saying that on a clear day, the sky appears blue.
“If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community
organizer…”
Stop. If you would like the entire U.S. to look the way the South Side of Chicago does today, vote for your ‘brilliant community organizer’.
As for the rest of this tripe… I guess there’s points here and there, but it totally leaves out that Obama has received more contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac than any candidate in history, not to mention one of his chief economic advisers was a former CEO of Fannie! Change, you say? Your funeral.
This is not to say that the other side is a clear alternative. I think we’re seriously screwed come November, either way. Wait… actually, we’re screwed already…
Wow, the number of sock puppets here is EXTRA-ORDINARY!
Yup, failing economy and you idiots are more concerned about who’s affiliated with who. “Obama knows this cop killer, so he’ll probably kill cops and be a communist once he gets elected.” Is that what you’re saying? Who cares if Mccain helps out the big corporations that are outsourcing American jobs to different countries.
I guess real people don’t pick up a book to learn what Terms like Socialism and Marxism actually mean and how they compare and contrast in our social and geopolitical system. Real people don’t even know the definition of Republican and Democrat or Conservative and Liberal are anymore for gosh sakes. Just dogmatic labels based on some black and white definitions based on what they do or don’t have in their personal lives..
Real people are not educated and care not about the world outside their own imaginary boarders.
After all Real People believed McCarthyism. It sounds like they still do in theory. If not the ideology itself, the reasoning process of such an argument anyway…
I do not identify with Palin because of what she believes and how she has demonstrated to us her reasoning process; her decision process and her record using Religon as a basis for that reasoning. I don’t care about her personal life.
I want one real person to tell me what they identify with in McCain and Palin not what they don’t identify in some broad and dogmatic definition a democratic party. All I hear every time I hear a “real” slam a Democrat is a definition of what THEY (the person) are not…. Not what their party is and how it compares and contrasts with a Democrat…
The lead post here is brilliant and worth a repost. It is not political spin. It is simply and example of how flawed our logic is. Flawed because all we real people do anymore is put a label on things we don’t understand and the things we don’t understand we fear. How does one come to believe that a man who put himself through College studying the fundamental laws that govern our constitution grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth? How doe one believe that another Man is a man of the common man but was born into the elite officer core of the military and has spent a life in politics funded by Big Big business?
I respect what “real people” support whatever it is but stop telling us what you are NOT and start telling us what you are. To do so you have to know what you are and I guess real people just don’t anymore…
And Canis if you are going to cut and past and use a referance to Hitler please be prepared to support whatever the fuck it is you are saying.
OK now Obama is Hitler. I rest my case
This discussion seems to have imploded upon itself.
First of all, it seems that ‘the people’ vs. ‘the real people’ have abandoned thinking for themselves for let ‘the party’ think for them. if the ‘real people’ thought for themselves, then the two major parties could be more reflective of ‘the people’. If you want to examine the records of both democrats and republicans – the bigger picture would show that both are merely different shades of one ideology and that the ‘American interest’ strives for one thing: Big Business. All the rest of the ‘serfs’ matter very little in the debate about law and policy – indeed if you are one of the disenfranchised poor, then you are not only serf, you are also cannon fodder for the wars financed by big business in their pursuit of more ownership and wealth. The bottom line for both parties is big business.
Hitler has been mentioned. I invoke Goodwin’s Law. Discussion is over. The person who mentioned Hitler loses. Move along…
Dear Hitler,
Hitler Hitler and Hitler would like to announce that Hitler has been promoted to Full Partner, and Hitler is very Hitler about it.
By Hitler and Hitler in the same sence, of Hitler *for* Hitler.
Hitler has a great deal on Hitler, and it’s aesthetically pleaseing in a Hitler sort of way.
Thrown against a Hitler backdrop, Hitler makes a Hitler kind of sense, if you are in to that kind of Hitler I suppose.
It’s a very Hitler price to pay for a high-end Hitler attatchment, but only the Hitler-weanies care.
The average Hitler isn’t very Hitler about the kind of Hitler that goes into a Hitler. but that’s only a Hitler opinion.
I mean really, can Hitler say that out of the Hitler context?
It’s about the Hitler facts for team Hitler on the Hitler ride over mount Hitler, to score a full Hitler.
Thus, it’s possible to imagine a Hitler Hitler -ing to a perfect Hitler, like a metaphore.
Best Regards,
Hitler.
Exotic and different is a compliment.
“Mooseburgers” ok so you hate rural Americans, got that.
Only the person talking about Obama’s name is Obama. Not surpising considering his only real accomplishments seem to be his two autobiographies. Can you say narcissism?
Who said Obama’s unstable because he graduated from Harvard? Who said he’s unstable at all.
So Gov. Palin went to a 5 schools, she got good grades at all of them. We all can’t go to Harvard (frankly I’m kinda sick and tired of these Ivy league types screwing up the world, time to give some regular Sarahs a chance behind the desk).
I’m pretty tired of this rhetorical trick of putting words in your opponents mouth and then pretending to argue with yourself. Its tired. Just because we say the Palin family has great values, does not mean the Obama family has none. You sound like a bunch of bitches, and I’m pretty sure Mrs. Palin would agree with me.
PS
When the “first dude” was dui, Obama was doing lines of coke. Bias exposed.
I’m pretty tired of this rhetorical trick of putting words in your opponents mouth
Is that anything like Karl Rove?
Please lets not forget who we are really voting for. Our choice is really important. We can vote for a person who has touted his experience and yet by all accounts “chose” a person he had met one time. This is careless at the least and dangerous at the most. We can choose on the other hand a person who has shown his ability to deal with common people at their most confused and debilitated. Does this sound like most of us lately with the economy wrecked. I am choosing to vote against fear this election–I want a person who lives in the real world for President not one that lives in an economy of a small country. Palin is not who we are voting for. Research the Keating Five and John McCains ethics-he re invented himself for political purposes but still carries the same stripes. Do your homework this time ,vote for reality not just more bluster and false words.
Cuttin’ and pastin’ this one…just for the sake of discussion…
: Chicago Statistics
Body count. In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago, 221 killed in Iraq.
Sens. Barack Obama & Dick Durbin, Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., Gov. Rod Blogojevich, House leader Mike Madigan, Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, Mayor Richard Daley…..our leadership in Illinois…..all Democrats.
Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago. Of course they’re all blaming each other. Can’t blame Republicans, they’re aren’t any!
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.
Chicago school system one of the worst in country.
(Look’em up if you want).
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois. He’s gonna ‘fix’ Washington politics?
confusion is the most appropriate label for your post. if you are an educated man, you’ll then surely know of the ‘units-of-analysis’ or ‘external validation’ phenomenon. If your education level reflects the extent of your posts, then allow me the following example, perhaps more at your ‘speed’. Comparing Apples and Oranges is a no-no! Again, comparing Apples and Oranges is a no-no! Get it? Obviously I could go on explaining the merits of this post-response, but I won’t waste my time and your precious remaining brain cells. Suffice to say, I thought I was done with you (I mean it) but the ignorance of your previous post brought me out of retirement, herr sommerspew-ballyhoo of no-clue… please, go away. go fuck your 27.2 seat post tube! oh, wait, it’s probably wider since you invariably ride aluminum…
sommerfliesby,
The total # of murders you are quoting in Chicago is being compared to the total number of deaths of U.S. service members in Iraq over a similar period, not the number of murders in Iraq, moron.
The rate of murder in Chicago is high, but not nearly as high as among military personal in the war zones, and the military people suffer a much much attempted murder daily, but are protected by their own counter insurgent action and armor.
Get a fucking education, stop jerking off to pictures of John McCain and actually give reading comprehension a try. The only person in this race how has likely killed innocent people as a direct result of decisions he made is John McCain by participating in naplam bombing in ‘Nam.
I know that gov/military and three letter agencies don’t let people who have been compromised in POW camps anywhere near command positions. Why are the Republicommies so anxious to get one in office now? Manchurian John McCain? I bet you can’t wait to have him export the rest of the nations wealth to China, can you traitor?
Come to think of it, I think I’d like to see you experience the difference first hand. Maybe a trip down to the old recruiter will get you sent right there. Oh, thats right, you Republacommies are too busy stealing money from the treasury and only use war comparisons to try to further that goal .When its time to actually put up, you’re all a bunch of chickenshit.
Rock on REPUBODENT – nice way to build on the previous post. Good to see some integrated postings here. It does take a bit of thought. The sommer-dude is obviously confused. And, i’m sure he rides an ALU bike. Probably a trek. He’s gay too.
Damn…I think I hit a nerve with that one! Just let’s me know it was on target. And actually, I the only aluminum bike I’ve got is a full-sus. I mostly ride 853. And singlespeed. Plus, like I said, I didn’t write that, just copied it from an email and pasted it…you know…to get HostileLocal’s blood pressure up. Enjoying that Democratic reach-around yet, buddy-boy?
I know, I know…it’s now apples to apples…but it sure is FUNNY!
Biden garbles Depression history
Joe Biden’s denunciation of his own campaign’s ad to Katie Couric got so much attention last night that another odd note in the interview slipped by.
He was speaking about the role of the White House in a financial crisis.
“When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the princes of greed,” Biden told Couric. “He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.'”
As Reason’s Jesse Walker footnotes it: “And if you owned an experimental TV set in 1929, you would have seen him. And you would have said to yourself, ‘Who is that guy? What happened to President Hoover?'”
sommerfly – you copy and post crap just to get someone’s heart rate up? and you do so at 3:09 in the fuckin morning?! get a life, dude. you’re pathetic. and word out to the Hostile – keep up the good fight my brutha!
Bernackie, is that you parading as my sommerlover?
Naw, I don’t provide the reach around, just the ass reaming (you know, that ripping feeling coming in three, two , one…
Once again, sommerlover, aligning yourself with a moron via your spastic use of copy paste with no brain engagement, you manage to reveal that you are incapable of reading or remembering 6th grade history.
You and your republicommie friends would do well to put down the bible and that twelve year old boy’s dick and pick up a textbook now and again. Here’s a refresher:
1) The Earth is round
2) The second largest stock crash in history occurred in 1937-1938, at the end of FDR’s first term.
3) FDR is famous for being the first president to appear on TV, albeit in 1939
4.) The only people who are fooled by the standard republicommie “I’m straight Not Gay!” line is all the other republiccommie homophobes
5) Biden’s gaffe is that he said TV instead of radio.
6) FDR was also famous for his regular national radio addresses dubbed “fireside chat”.
How’s that tearing? Might need a few stitches there. Looks like you never had anything large, only tiny Cheney, Dick up there before huh?
And that nice feeling in front? That is Sarah Palin licking your twat while squirting George Bushe’s semen into your infected uterus so you two can produce a child republacommie army of morons to steal this nations wealth and give it to the ChiCom. Assholes.
Now run along and clean yourself up, whore.
Ouch! Sad but true.
3:09 YOUR time, dude. I’m start work at 6 am Central, so not like I’m some late-night whackjob just looking to piss someone off. I’m a punch-the-clock every day and earn money for the gov’t to spend whackjob…and yeah…if it pisses you off, all the better.
Thanks for that graphic description repub…really speaks to your character. Glad I don’t know you. And as for the gaffe…not only was it funny because of the TV/radio thing, but because HOOVER was the pres in ’29. But you didn’t read that…oh great professor of history?
Seriously…calling me gay or a pedophile…does that really advance your arguement against John McCain or Sarah Palin?
Oh..and I can’t forget to address the “ChiCom” thing…WHO was it again that gave China “Most Favored Nation” status AND sold little technological tidbits to them? I forget. My history must not be too good. Oh yeah…the same guy that took $50,000 from a Chinese national to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.
Have a NICE day.
yeah, well you do appear to be a pedophile-inspired whackjob who has nothing better to do during the wee-hours of the night than surf child porn and piss nice people off. i’m convinced. happy felching to you and yours.
Here’s to all the mcshameful corporate republicons who have profitted at the expense of most americans. let the revolution begin. we’ll start with you sommerflyboy. enjoy:
http://break.com/index/mastercard-offical-card-of-the-2nd-depression.html
For the record…and I’ve said this before…I’m not a republican. You can knock McCain all you want…doesn’t really bother me. He and Bush didn’t exactly see eye to eye over the past several years and he has become seriously “homogenized” in order to “fit” into the Republican mold…SOLD OUT is a better way to put it. I contribute negative comments towards Obama simply because there’s already quite enough anti-Bush/anit-McCain drivel on here. My POV was represented by Steve waaaaaay back in Post #29…before the Hitler references, and before the personal attacks…either way, we’re fucked. How you gonna argue with that?
heheh, when a thread becomes unraveled.
Allow me to point out a book of rules I personally violate as regular as possible.
The Elements of Style.
Stunk & While. Perfect.
And on National Pronunciation Day, too.
http://www.nationalpunctuationday.com
I think ‘argue’ is the reason this zombie thread moves on.
Discursive Style. What kind of education teaches muddled thinking, loose reference and ad hominem?
Calling a replican a pedafile is likely to offend both groups, but I think gay republican pedophiles would have a very interesting platform statement…as if NAMBLA and the Club for Growth merged.
We are not..’fucked’, as for how I would argue the not fucked position..I would use solid rhetoric, mispellings, relevant facts, and just the pinch of reason.
And I would enjoy it.
now that’s confusing. all cleared up.
My Summerboy,
“but because HOOVER was the pres in ‘29. But you didn’t read that…oh great professor of history?”
Read Biden’s quote in your own copy/paste moron. He does not mention the Great Depression or the year. It is your lack of historical knowledge alongpalin with your inability to read that causes you to perpetuate this idiotic leap. Clearly Sen. Biden is referencing the March 1937-March 1938 stock market crash, the second largest in history, which happened on FDR’s watch. FDR kept in constant touch with the US public with frank “fireside chats” via radio. This tactic was unprecedented at the time and contrasts sharply with the Bushies/McCain/ famed secrecy, pushing things through,lying etc. Palin/McSame’s candidacy is more of the same.
oops don’t know where that “palin” after along came from.
Summerboy,
You may not know me, but I and the majority of American citizens know you, and we are tired of you, your lies and your bullshit. Take your free republican yard sign and get the fuck off my lawn before I kick your ass. Don’t you have some important republicommie task to do like decide which company executives should fleece taxpayers for 10’s of millions and which ones will have no limit? Or whether to run the US banking industry from Bernake’s home office, the Saudi Embassy, Crawford Ranch, or from the Ministry of the People’s Bank in Beijing?
Do ANY of you guys have actual jobs? Other than professional bitches, I mean. And RIIIIIIGHT repub…I’m SUUUUUUUURE he meant the SECOND biggest drop…don’t think I’ll be drinking that koolaid, but you can fill right up, ok?
Why do you keep pointing the finger at the Republicans for selling out to China, of all things? Things started heading that way long before Bush got into office…I know…my industry has been one of the hardest hit. Now both candidates are saying that the key to the future of this country is small business…guess what…most of them are already GONE.
This has grown tiresome to say the least…see you in some other thread.
Dentext…no matter how eloquently you put it…fucked is the word.
but sommersboy, please don’t go away to another post. you are so much fun to fuck with. and the thing is you’ll loose; you know this in some deep, dark repressed part of your pschye but can’t bring yourself around to espouse the changes necessary so this world doesn’t become more fucked. from what i can tell from your postings is that yes you are convinced that all is in the shitter and there’s no better way to make that a firm reality than to vote for mcsame/palin. you are a self-fullfilling prophecy. and you make a fine ragdoll. predictable so, take that and go assfuck you nearest butt dart buddy homophobe.
the one dude on here that’s so in love with McShameful and McPalinful is a first class asshat. any way to cut him off?
Come on guys. I don’t agree with Sommerfliesby’s positions (believe me, we’ve argued…), but really, read his posts. Leave the personal invectives out of it and attack on facts only. This thread should have been left to die as soon as Hitler was mentioned…
…very interesting…
…maybe it’s just me, but i’m beginning to get the sense that not everyone is fully appreciative of the views of everyone else…
…at least it’s starting to seem that way…just a bit…
when ill informed views and worse, arguments, pollute otherwise productive waters, it is indeed cause for retaliation. granted, respect for well reasoned and informed opintions / views is paramount. but when useless tripe enters the system it must be dealt with accordingly. fuck politeness; word up the uninformed, misguided, apathetic, xenaphobic – whatever you wish to call them – dip shits that helped elected the shrub that has largley put us in this current shithole. i feel a scream coming on… watch out!
Word Howard.
The Eight Shrub Years a grumpy electorate doth make. To jest is but a folly, and fisticuffs may be called for. And when I say say fisticuffs, I mean a virtual baseball bat to the cranium until the adjustments are perfected.
bgw,
Ya think? I don’t know where these guys came from, but they can’t even take their own advice.
The rest of y’all,
I’m not talking about being polite. Be blunt. Be harsh. Back your shit up with facts. Saying you want to cave someones head in with a bat is stupid. Calling someone a pedophile doesn’t make you right. It doesn’t make your point. Grow up. You aren’t helping. Sommer (or KG) and I argue. I don’t think we are polite, but we aren’t calling for bodily harm. I’d probably still go on a ride with them, have a couple of beers, and talk politics if I were to meet them in person. It is possible to fervently disagree with someone and still treat them like a human.
Good-bye to this thread…
…el jefe…i think some folks see the language oft times used here & they’ve maybe watched certain issues being played out & don’t realize there is always an edge to any situation…
…that edge, that fine line, gets ‘run up against’,regularly around here but therein lies the opportunity to stay edgy but yet exercise enough tact to not go over that line…been a lotta tromping on it lately…
…my only real concern is that in the time i’ve been here, big jonny’s site has featured some extremely erudite social & political commentary, some of it rivaling dedicated political sites where the content & delivery is considerably dryer but not particularly any better informed…
…so, i’d hate to see the actual thinkers like yourself & other real contributors move on because of the loose mouthed reactionaries…
…we’ve all got a place here but i fully agree that a modicum of civility is necessary…
…that being said, so that no one thinks i’m trying to be self righteous, let me be the first to admit to being guilty of my own on-line stupidity…but i do recognize a good thing when i see it…
…just sayin’…
Wait, I don’t know what I am talking about so lets do this debate later so I can cram to learn the opposite side of what it was I used to support so there is no confusion in my brain
What a bunch of Fags
Appreciate the empathy jefe and bgw, and I’d gladly chill over a cold one with you guys after a nice ride. It IS possible to talk about this stuff without getting your panties all in a bunch…I know…I’ve got more that a couple friends with liberal tendencies…and dig this…we’re still FRIENDS .
Since this has become the SommerSlam ’08, I feel it’s necessary to clarity my position, as Butthead so admirably did last week. I’m 34, live in a household that makes over $100k, went to college on both athletic and academic scholarships, and have been working full-time in a small (15 employees) manufacturing facility that my father and my grandfather started in 1976. I’ve been working there since I was 15, and started off washing the walls in the factory. Our AVERAGE employee has been here for over 15 years, we have a couple that have been with the company for over 25 years. We pay full health coverage, offer a 401k and a profit sharing plan, and give bonuses every year. In return, we have loyalty, and an incredible group of people working for us. My father will be retiring in two years, and I will assume the presidency of the company, with the fervent hopes that I can do as well as he has with respect to profit AND keeping the employees happy. My father is a Republican, and though I was raised under that auspices (in addition to that of Catholism), I am NOT a Republican (nor do I believe in a god). I disagree with the war in Iraq. My cousin did a tour over there, and her husband is on his second. I have the utmost respect for them. I believe that Bush and Cheney should be made to answer for the War…so yeah…put them on trial and convict if you can. I believe in a woman’s right to choose and in gay marriage…neither of these things really affect me in any way, so what would my opinion matter? Contrary to recent testaments, I am married to my high-school sweetheart( for 10 years) and we’ve been together for 17 years…no kids. I own 4 cars, a boat, and 7 bikes. My boating friends think I’m insane for biking, and vice-versa. I own a house that is over $100,000 less expensive than the bank approved me for. I have NEVER missed a credit card payment (in full) in my life. I live within my means.
Now…why would I vote for McCain?
I have lived in the Chicago suburbs my entire life. I have seen machine politics at work…and BOY does it work. My state has a democratic governor (under federal investigation for association with Tony Rezko…I’m certain that name will come up some more as the pres. debates heat up), and a democratic legislature. Cook County (which I moved out of, but my business still abides in), is a JOKE. If you want a truely absurd political vignette, look up the name Todd Stroger and his father, John Stroger…our consecutive CC Board Presidents. (TS was basically appointed to the position of running a county with a bigger budget than many 3rd world countries…with ZERO experience…it’s not exactly working out well). This is Illinois. Our former governor is in jail…and he was a Republican. Our current governor is definately headed that way. The Republican party is a joke in this state…and has been for a long time. It’s Democrats all the way…exactly as it will be should Obama win. Things are not much different here than they are in the rest of the country. People are still poor. Inner-city schools are underfunded and have huge failure rates. Chicago’s mayor knows this very well, I am sure, but he is too busy spending tax dollars to get the 2016 Olymipics. This is the culture Barack Obama has come from. If he has any experience, it’s been right here. You should see the “community” 1/2 mile from his poshy Hyde Park homestead. It ain’t pretty. So yes, I am jaded and cynical with regard to politics in general.
I don’t agree with John McCain entirely. I despise the Palin choice…the religious right is a funny funny joke and she was the proverbial bone tossed to that group of Bible-banging mental midgets. My decision is based upon the “hope” (who would think…the AUDACITY of having hope!) that McCain will follow up on his promises to work with the other side on making this country better. At least he has a track record of pissing off Republicans and working across the aisle. When people like Rush Limbaugh are screaming to the high heavens after McCain was nominated…that’s gotta give you pause, no? I also believe that we need a person (unfortunate though this may be) with a military bearing in the Oval Office. No, I don’t condone war or violence…I think we need to get the hell out and bring our soldiers home…but what’s done is done…and we’re in a shit-storm now. We aren’t going to placate anyone by backing down peaceably…we need to create a strong defensive position and look after the interests of this country. We should not be the world’s police.
No, I don’t believe McCain will be the force of change the people on this site believe necessary, but I don’t believe Obama is that person either. But, I’ve gotta vote for someone. Should Obama win, I won’t be disappointed or scared or filled with rage…I will carry the same hopeful attitude towards his administration…that he will make this country better. In many ways…I’d welcome his leadership, chief among them being the humongous step forward it would represent with regard to racism in this country, which I abhor.
Anyway…it’s ugly out there kids. I hope America lives through this…I feel like it’s a Civil War without the convenience of state borders. Sorry it got so ugly in here.
Now fire away, I’m not leaving.
We’re Screwed
and he’s a motor boater too i assume. i can’t imagine him being a paddler, no way. say no more. go drown yourself in lake foul, you asshole! and stay away from the west. you will be shot.
“and stay away from the left coast. you will be shot” ??
This thread is like a battle between an adult and a bunch of chronic masturbating 12 year olds.
Well stated, but I don’t need the life story. How about total distant/wk and avg speed mtn vs road. how many miles of recreational trail with in riding distance. We are in the same poluting motorize boat together. Those ideallist that think that can live outside the structure of our society are mostly got their heads in the clouds and their parents CC. Inner city are pretty nasty nation wide. But the republican approach is that there is no hope. Save business fuck the people. How can we have eduactional standards for our children when these schools are so grossly under funded. How about the injustice and racism in the justice departparts nation wide. Remember the Jenna Six. Why do we have weed dealers doing more time than catholic priests. I believe people need to work for what they get. But I also look at what is happening in this govt as anything but fair, just or capitalistic. What is more corrupt than starting the war is the amount of indepedant wealth gain by it.
I lived in Chicago, I saw bad things and felt the pain. Therefore Obama is bad
Is that anything like:
Well I saw a Honda Accord on the side of the road this morning. It was overheating…therefore all Accords suck
keep em coming SommerFlyGuy. Same format over and over regardless of your topic.
BTW mix in a few things you LIKE with that reasoning and see what happens
Dude you are killing yourself bro
And I forgot. beers/booze consumed. Stats to live by.
Total distance/wk – ss mtb, about 50-60, road 50 or so…also run 10-15 miles
Trails would be about a 45 minute ride from my house, so I’ve got to drive…probably have about 50 miles worth.
Beer – I like trying new ones, but I’m a big fan of Fat Tire, 3 Floyd’s stuff and Left Hand Sawtooth Ale.
Sorry I can’t live up to your expectations, Butthead. Geez…I never thought I’d type a line like that.
Oh yeah…can’t forget…I am a motorboatin’ son-of-a-bitch…and thanks for the invite…I’d love to hit Havasu someday.
Left hand on Saw Tooth
Right Hand on Dick
sommerfly – thanks for the self-serving bio you offered. way TMI, definitely TMI. is anyone supposed to give a fuck? really. personally i could care less about your manufacturing company, employee benefits, your catholic upbringing (bet a priest or two had their way with you as a choir boy), and the value of your suburbia house. all of it is totally uninteresting and frankly, sad. maybe i’d be as misguided and angry as you if i had to endure such a mundane existence.
and – hope you and your dumbfuck friends have fun alongside the MTV-springbreakers at havasu… spewing fuel and ‘recreating’ on the Desecrated, depressed, and polluted colorado river. you, the springbreakers, and red-neck californians. the place is hell on earth – a perfucked place for a dipshit like you.
Ch-ch-ch-changes…
Thought of you on this one Butthead: Here’s an example of the political climate in Chicago that I refer to…and have become jaded with:
Enjoy the CHANGE!
Obama grant being probed
$100,000 DEAL | State to charity: What happened to garden money, other cash?
Recommend (121) Comments
September 25, 2008
BY CHRIS FUSCO AND DAVE MCKINNEY
Obama’s $100K Grant for a Garden Never Built
More videos
» Click to enlarge image A group headed gy Kenny B. Smith (top right) was awarded a state grant by then-state Sen. Barack Obama to create a botanic garden in Englewood. Plans now call for the city to take back the garden site because the project never happened. Attorney General Lisa Madigan is investigating.
(Keith Hale/Sun-Times/AP)
RELATED STORIESVideo: Grant for a garden never built Exclusive: Obama’s $100K (unbuilt )garden Special section: Barack Obama More in Watchdogs
A $100,000 state grant for a botanic garden in Englewood that then-state Sen. Barack Obama awarded in 2001 to a group headed by a onetime campaign volunteer is now under investigation by the Illinois attorney general amid new questions, prompted by Chicago Sun-Times reports, about whether the money might have been misspent.
The garden was never built. And now state records obtained by the Sun-Times show $65,000 of the grant money went to the wife of Kenny B. Smith, the Obama 2000 congressional campaign volunteer who heads the Chicago Better Housing Association, which was in charge of the project for the blighted South Side neighborhood.
Smith wrote another $20,000 in grant-related checks to K.D. Contractors, a construction company that his wife, Karen D. Smith, created five months after work on the garden was supposed to have begun, records show. K.D. is no longer in business.
Attorney General Lisa Madigan — a Democrat who is supporting Obama’s presidential bid — is investigating “whether this charitable organization properly used its charitable assets, including the state funds it received,” Cara Smith, Madigan’s deputy chief of staff, said Wednesday.
In addition to the 2001 grant that Obama directed to the housing association as a “member initiative,” the not-for-profit group got a separate $20,000 state grant in 2006.
Madigan’s office has notified Obama’s presidential campaign of the probe, which was launched this week. But Obama’s actions in awarding the money are not a focus of the investigation, Smith said.
Questions about the grant, though, come as spending on local pet projects has become an issue in Obama’s campaign against John McCain.
Obama and Kenny Smith announced the “Englewood Botanic Garden Project” at a January 2000 news conference at Englewood High School. Obama was in the midst of a failed bid to oust South Side Democratic Rep. Bobby Rush for a seat in Congress. The garden — planned near and under L tracks between 59th Place and 62nd Place — fell outside of Obama’s Illinois Senate district but within the congressional district’s borders.
Obama vowed to “work tirelessly” to raise $1.1 million to help Smith’s organization turn the City of Chicago-owned lot into an oasis of trees and paths. But Obama lost the congressional race, no more money was raised, and today the garden site is a mess of weeds, chunks of concrete and garbage. The only noticeable improvement is a gazebo.
In a previous interview, Smith said the state grant money was legitimately spent, mostly on underground site preparation.
But no one ever took out construction permits required for such work, city records show. And a contractor who Smith said did most of the work told a reporter all he did was cut down trees and grade the site with a Bobcat.
Citing the garden’s failure to take root, NeighborSpace — an umbrella group for dozens of community gardens citywide — moved Sept. 9 to return the site to the city. Its action followed a July 11 Sun-Times report on the grant.
Obama spokesman Michael Ortiz said Wednesday the senator’s staff in Washington will monitor the Madigan probe and an additional review under way by Gov. Blagojevich’s administration to make sure “the taxpayer funds allocated for the construction of the garden are recuperated from CBHA if the agencies determine that the funds were not properly spent.” Obama’s goal is to ensure the site “be used in a way that benefits the community and that any taxpayer dollars allocated are spent wisely,” Ortiz said.
The relationship between Smith and Obama dates to at least 1997, when Obama wrote a letter that Smith used to help the housing association win city funding for an affordable-housing development near the garden site. Plans called for more than 50 homes; a dozen ultimately were built.
Smith also has donated $550 to Obama campaign funds.
The Sun-Times learned about Karen Smith’s involvement in the project through an Aug. 12 Freedom of Information Act response from a lawyer for Blagojevich¹s Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity. The department, according to the lawyer, had ³discovered² 52 pages of ³additional documents² ommitted from an initial response in May to a Sun-Times¹ Freedom of Information Act request about the grant.
Neither Smith nor his wife has been accused of any wrongdoing. Smith and his lawyer did not return repeated calls seeking comment.
In an interview in July, Smith said he was never able to raise the money needed for the garden. But the state grant awarded by Obama was spent properly, he said, on the underground work, with most of the work done by a contractor whose name Smith got wrong.
The Sun-Times tracked down the contractor, Rodolfo Marin, in Austin, Texas, where he now lives.
“What I was hired for was: Clean up the area and cut the trees — that’s all,” Marin said. He said he rented a Bobcat — a sort of small bulldozer — for the project.
And how much did Smith pay him? “If he spent about $3,000 with me, that was too much.”
Chris Fusco and Dave McKinney
Yeah…you got it Mutant Ninja. I’M the angry one! Hahahahahahaha! I’m laughing all day long at the effluvience that issues from your mouths…errr…keyboards. The personal insults…really…those are some great arguements you got there.
why don’t you at least give the source of your cutting and pasting. Maybe it is that Canandian free press. Why don’t you look up some stuff on the other guy.
Sorry dude…Chicago Sun-Times.
And as for the other guy…c’mon…he’s from AZ…isn’t that on a lot of you guys? I’d be interested to see it, actually. Wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it was even worse from a Republican.
Sommerdude – you have submitted what have to be the two longest posts in DC history. Things slow at the manufacturing plant? That’s where I stopped reading. Get a life, man. Take you desperate agenda somewhere else. Whatever you sellin, I ain’t buyin. Have a nice day you douchebag.
Your gonna LOVE it when I move to Flagstaff!
I’m going to LOVE it when this thread ends.
me too. sommerflyfag has worn out his welcome. and please, move to flagstafftown so i can personally welcome you…
Where’s that Repubodent when you need him to open up a can?