Comments on: Good Listen http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/ Two Wheels. One Dark Lord. Wed, 23 May 2012 14:40:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: samsonian http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1872 samsonian Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:47:59 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1872 so...what does the dissertation above change other than the fact that it is the UCI and not the lab. Honestly, it says worse things about the state of cycling especially since a lot of these announcements about A samples are made before the rider themselves are aware of the result...therefore unable to prepare for the unjust treatment they are liable to endure whether they have doped or not. so…what does the dissertation above change other than the fact that it is the UCI and not the lab.

Honestly, it says worse things about the state of cycling especially since a lot of these announcements about A samples are made before the rider themselves are aware of the result…therefore unable to prepare for the unjust treatment they are liable to endure whether they have doped or not.

]]> By: Patrick http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1849 Patrick Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:56:29 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1849 dmathias wrote: "but even the fact that WADA/UCI accept the labs leaking results of A samples without completely ending their involvement with them makes them either complicit or liable (or both)" This is the biggest scam that has been perpetrated upon us all. The whole "the lab leaked the results". The fact is, the lab tests blood samples. Each sample has a number on it. No name is attached to the sample. No log-book of identities exists at the lab. When a positive test result happens, the lab calls the UCI (their "client") and tells them that "sample XYZ149 has tested positive for x, thank you very much, goodbye, have a nice day" The only leak you will possibly get from the lab is that a sample tested positive. As the custodian of the identities, only the UCI can actually leak the identity of a test result. So, ta-da, our consistent foe usually ends up being the UCI. The only leak I've heard of that could possibly have come from the French lab was a year ago when L'Equipe broke the "retrospective Armstrong positive for EPO" story. They somehow secured both the samples numbers (from the lab) as well as the identifiers from the UCI. And from what I have heard (on the DL) is that we have no further to look than Hein Verbruggen himself. The riders have no shortage of reasons to distrust the UCI (many that go beyond doping). They have very few reasons to distrust the lab. And Dick Pound does WADA no favors either, but he'll be gone by the fall. I suspect his replacement will tend to keep his trap shut. dmathias wrote:

“but even the fact that WADA/UCI accept the labs leaking results of A samples without completely ending their involvement with them makes them either complicit or liable (or both)”

This is the biggest scam that has been perpetrated upon us all. The whole “the lab leaked the results”. The fact is, the lab tests blood samples. Each sample has a number on it. No name is attached to the sample. No log-book of identities exists at the lab. When a positive test result happens, the lab calls the UCI (their “client”) and tells them that “sample XYZ149 has tested positive for x, thank you very much, goodbye, have a nice day”

The only leak you will possibly get from the lab is that a sample tested positive. As the custodian of the identities, only the UCI can actually leak the identity of a test result.

So, ta-da, our consistent foe usually ends up being the UCI. The only leak I’ve heard of that could possibly have come from the French lab was a year ago when L’Equipe broke the “retrospective Armstrong positive for EPO” story. They somehow secured both the samples numbers (from the lab) as well as the identifiers from the UCI. And from what I have heard (on the DL) is that we have no further to look than Hein Verbruggen himself.

The riders have no shortage of reasons to distrust the UCI (many that go beyond doping). They have very few reasons to distrust the lab. And Dick Pound does WADA no favors either, but he’ll be gone by the fall. I suspect his replacement will tend to keep his trap shut.

]]> By: Patrick http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1845 Patrick Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:38:48 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1845 Unfortunately, most of the dopers have all granted themselves personal immunity within their own minds. When they argue that they are clean, they are doing so with full belief in their own righteousness. They've rationalized their behavior. They've succeeded in convincing oh-so-many of you that they are wrongly accused. Tyler has spent the past 3 years doing this. He simply can not let go. I agree with the comments about our needing a really workable objective testing system. Dick Pound is WADA's own worst enemy (by commenting on the ongoing cases) and it also seems that Verbruggen and McQuaid are also doing fine job at internally destroying the credibility of the system. Also realize that all of these "caught" dopers have actually been caught. Unfortunately, most of the dopers have all granted themselves personal immunity within their own minds. When they argue that they are clean, they are doing so with full belief in their own righteousness. They’ve rationalized their behavior.

They’ve succeeded in convincing oh-so-many of you that they are wrongly accused. Tyler has spent the past 3 years doing this. He simply can not let go.

I agree with the comments about our needing a really workable objective testing system. Dick Pound is WADA’s own worst enemy (by commenting on the ongoing cases) and it also seems that Verbruggen and McQuaid are also doing fine job at internally destroying the credibility of the system.

Also realize that all of these “caught” dopers have actually been caught.

]]> By: slickdick http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1839 slickdick Mon, 06 Aug 2007 12:59:22 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1839 So, by extrapolation our anger is misplaced. How stupid of us! All this time, its not the riders who should be blamed, but a world doping agency misaligned under the pressure of heightened scrutiny! Doping is a grey world, you see. Antibiotics? Hormones to help restore a knee? EPO to nurse a cancer victim back (the pinnacle, really) to shape? Someone earlier in these forums made reference to a NFL record holder who was docked salary for his second violation. Its the man telling the best athletes in the world they can't drink their vitamin shake people! NFL don't give a fuck. Barry Bonds definitely don't give a fuck. The problem with doping in cycling is the fans actually care. We believe that the men who show us a part of their soul with their daily suffering do so with no mechanized parts....because that man we can relate to our own human suffering. Its all in the narrative folks: is he achieving the impossible or cutting corners? Frame Gu in the proper light and we're all fucked. We are machines riding machines...we will always strive to make those machines better. Really, the thing to do is just dope the shit that cannot yet be tested for. Its not really doping! LOL! Its a grey, grey world people. Signed, cynical fuck So, by extrapolation our anger is misplaced. How stupid of us! All this time, its not the riders who should be blamed, but a world doping agency misaligned under the pressure of heightened scrutiny! Doping is a grey world, you see. Antibiotics? Hormones to help restore a knee? EPO to nurse a cancer victim back (the pinnacle, really) to shape? Someone earlier in these forums made reference to a NFL record holder who was docked salary for his second violation. Its the man telling the best athletes in the world they can’t drink their vitamin shake people! NFL don’t give a fuck. Barry Bonds definitely don’t give a fuck. The problem with doping in cycling is the fans actually care. We believe that the men who show us a part of their soul with their daily suffering do so with no mechanized parts….because that man we can relate to our own human suffering. Its all in the narrative folks: is he achieving the impossible or cutting corners? Frame Gu in the proper light and we’re all fucked. We are machines riding machines…we will always strive to make those machines better. Really, the thing to do is just dope the shit that cannot yet be tested for. Its not really doping! LOL! Its a grey, grey world people. Signed, cynical fuck

]]> By: dmathias http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1832 dmathias Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:51:18 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1832 I like the comment about the evidence being so shoddy that most cases would likely not even make it to a jury in an American court. I'm not saying Floyd/Tyler/whomever is innocent, but even the fact that WADA/UCI accept the labs leaking results of A samples without completely ending their involvement with them makes them either complicit or liable (or both) for these egregious violations of athletes' rights. These guys need to stand trial for this bullshit taking place before more hardworking (maybe) innocent athletes lose their careers. The political maneuvering needs to stop before the whole sport gets dragged down with the crap. I like the comment about the evidence being so shoddy that most cases would likely not even make it to a jury in an American court. I’m not saying Floyd/Tyler/whomever is innocent, but even the fact that WADA/UCI accept the labs leaking results of A samples without completely ending their involvement with them makes them either complicit or liable (or both) for these egregious violations of athletes’ rights. These guys need to stand trial for this bullshit taking place before more hardworking (maybe) innocent athletes lose their careers. The political maneuvering needs to stop before the whole sport gets dragged down with the crap.

]]> By: Peg Leg http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1828 Peg Leg Mon, 06 Aug 2007 04:24:23 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1828 I have been pissing in a bottle since 1982. First the Marines then as a Rail Traffic Controller. It would scare the hell out me if I had to worry each time if I was going to get nailed for something I did not do. If I did it and got caught though; tough luck. I have been pissing in a bottle since 1982. First the Marines then as a Rail Traffic Controller. It would scare the hell out me if I had to worry each time if I was going to get nailed for something I did not do. If I did it and got caught though; tough luck.

]]> By: Large and Fit http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1826 Large and Fit Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:28:35 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1826 this says a lot "Almost every major sport is marred by scandal at the moment " this says a lot

“Almost every major sport is marred by scandal at the moment “

]]> By: RocBike.com » Links Of The Day: 5 August 2007 http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1817 RocBike.com » Links Of The Day: 5 August 2007 Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:14:14 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1817 [...] Good Listen [...] [...] Good Listen [...]

]]> By: John http://drunkcyclist.com/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1815 John Sun, 05 Aug 2007 19:10:03 +0000 http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/2007/08/05/good-listen/#comment-1815 I think that it's safe to say that at this point in the program real progress is going to be hard to come by until the "authorities" get their shit together and come up with some uniform, enforceable, and scientifically acceptable standards for testing. There are just too many shadows and cracks for the cockroaches to scurry into as it stands now. I think that it’s safe to say that at this point in the program real progress is going to be hard to come by until the “authorities” get their shit together and come up with some uniform, enforceable, and scientifically acceptable standards for testing. There are just too many shadows and cracks for the cockroaches to scurry into as it stands now.

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